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Old 09-14-2013, 11:11 AM   #61
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I also have a 13-ZL1 with a 6.2L SC. The only time you really worry about heat soak is when you are at a drag strip waiting for your run or pushing it to the limits on the track. If you are on the highway and running at speed it is staying pretty cool and heat soak is not a problem.
To call someone dishonest is harsh unless you are an expert , Sir.
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:26 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Razorbc View Post
I also have a 13-ZL1 with a 6.2L SC. The only time you really worry about heat soak is when you are at a drag strip waiting for your run or pushing it to the limits on the track. If you are on the highway and running at speed it is staying pretty cool and heat soak is not a problem.
To call someone dishonest is harsh unless you are an expert , Sir.

Yea I agree. Im assuming most Jeepers that use this kit will use it for highway passing power and fun. It's not like you will have to worry about hotlapping on a road course. For the most part I think heatsoak will probably be a non issue.

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Old 09-14-2013, 03:17 PM   #63
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Is there a dyno of an engine that has been run for an hour so it had a chance to heat soak? That will tell the tale.

For those who don't know, I'll try my best to explain heat soak:

In simple terms, a hunk of metal (or other thing) starts out as warm as the ambient temperature. As you drive, it is exposed to other another temperature that warms (or cools) the surface. As time goes on, the heat (or cold) evens out throughout the metal and the thing is "heat soaked". If you take away the source of the heat (or cold), the part will remain hot (or cold) for quite some time as it gives off the heat (or cold) that has "soaked" in the metal.

Why does this matter in terms of intercoolers and forced induction engines?
Cold air is denser than warm air and denser air means that the engine can add more fuel to the mix and make more power than if the air was not as dense.

As air is compressed by a supercharger or turbo, it gets warmer, limiting the amount of power that can be safely produced. The air can be cooled by intercoolers, however. As air passes through an intercooler, the air transfers heat to the intercooler. The intercooler transfers some of that heat to the outside air that passes over the intercooler. After a while, however, the intercooler "heat soaks" and can't absorb as much heat from the compressed air to cool it. The temperature of the compressed air to the engine goes up and that increases the chance of early detonation in the cylinder. Early detonation is can cause engines to either run poorly or to fail catastrophically.

A good forced induction engine tune will cut back power once the intercooler is heat soaked and intake air temps rise to prevent the engine from going "kaboom", meaning that a dyno run done to a vehicle that has not had the chance to be heat soaked can be extremely misleading. In other words, this supercharger might not make half or even 1/4 of the power once it has had a chance to heat soak.

The newer TVS style superchargers are much more resistant to heat soak than the RIPP supercharger seen here.

To me, promoting "gains" based on a single dyno run video taken shortly after the vehicle is started are extremely misleading. The depth of the misinformation is compounded by the fact that they have not shown the same vehicle's base line dyno and they changed the tires between dyno runs. To me, this suggests that RIPP is not being honest.

My $02.
There is always a heckler when it comes to SuperChargers. I had one in the SuperStar thread. Here are some points I'll touch.

We spun our EXPERIMENTAL RIPP Supercharger for 29 hours straight the first day I had it. NJ to Colorado. It was just as fast in the last hour as it was in the first. There was no power loss after and hour of "heat soak".

I just drove it to Rock Krawler in albany and there was again no power loss in the second hour of the trip. I averaged near 90 MPH on that run. I couldn't believe how fast traffic was moving.

Im pretty sure the intercooler can keep up cooling the air. Im sure RIPP will chime in. The power loss you describe is nothing I've witnessed. We'll hear from others with RIPP units installed in the coming weeks. I'll bet no one claims that there is a loss of power after an hour of driving.

Your shot at RIPP "not being honest" combined with your plug for a competing supercharger company leaves me to think your motives are not entirely on the up and up.
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:24 PM   #64
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Is there a dyno of an engine that has been run for an hour so it had a chance to heat soak? That will tell the tale.
We have over 350 Dyno passes on one of the most accurate Dyno's money can buy. (Dyno Dynamics) And after multiple passes, this is the number you will see. Transparency in marketing is a cornerstone in our advertising, also there are multiple independent dyno runs available to view online to backup our claims.

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For those who don't know, I'll try my best to explain heat soak:

In simple terms, a hunk of metal (or other thing) starts out as warm as the ambient temperature. As you drive, it is exposed to other another temperature that warms (or cools) the surface. As time goes on, the heat (or cold) evens out throughout the metal and the thing is "heat soaked". If you take away the source of the heat (or cold), the part will remain hot (or cold) for quite some time as it gives off the heat (or cold) that has "soaked" in the metal.
Correct.. normal aspirated or Forced induction.. Where there is fire, there is heat.

Quote:
Why does this matter in terms of intercoolers and forced induction engines?
Cold air is denser than warm air and denser air means that the engine can add more fuel to the mix and make more power than if the air was not as dense.

As air is compressed by a supercharger or turbo, it gets warmer, limiting the amount of power that can be safely produced. The air can be cooled by intercoolers, however. As air passes through an intercooler, the air transfers heat to the intercooler. The intercooler transfers some of that heat to the outside air that passes over the intercooler. After a while, however, the intercooler "heat soaks" and can't absorb as much heat from the compressed air to cool it. The temperature of the compressed air to the engine goes up and that increases the chance of early detonation in the cylinder. Early detonation is can cause engines to either run poorly or to fail catastrophically.

A good forced induction engine tune will cut back power once the intercooler is heat soaked and intake air temps rise to prevent the engine from going "kaboom", meaning that a dyno run done to a vehicle that has not had the chance to be heat soaked can be extremely misleading. In other words, this supercharger might not make half or even 1/4 of the power once it has had a chance to heat soak.
There are flaws to your understanding here, though correct in "general logic".
We utilize a front mount intercooler that has been designed to consistently lower air intake temperatures by OVER 80 Deg. F. when compared to temperatures measured at the intercooler inlet vs. the temperature measured at the throttle body. Location of your intercooler is key to this respect.
Our calibrations also take into account that your vehicle may not be moving at anything more than a crawl, as such, we have your electric fan turn on based on IAT, to keep a flow of air passing through the intercooler, allowing it to do it's job.


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The newer TVS style superchargers are much more resistant to heat soak than the RIPP supercharger seen here.
ABSOLUTELY FALSE!!!

As taken directly from the EATON website, not Wikiepedia :
The improvements incorporated into the TVS design allow for the use of a smaller supercharger, reducing the package size and weight of the system. The sizes range from 350cc to 2300cc per revolution, and cover engines from 0.6 liter up to large displacement V-engines. All TVS superchargers have a 2.4 pressure ratio capability and a thermal efficiency that exceeds 70 percent, which enables more compact packaging and greater output.

Vortech V3
  • This design allows for supercharger installation and operation without oil lines
  • Extraordinary 78% peak efficiency
  • Ideal for latest generation of improved breathing, high-power street and strip engines
  • Vastly improved flow and efficiency at high boost levels, providing completely new levels of power gain



Quote:
To me, promoting "gains" based on a single dyno run video taken shortly after the vehicle is started are extremely misleading. The depth of the misinformation is compounded by the fact that they have not shown the same vehicle's base line dyno and they changed the tires between dyno runs. To me, this suggests that RIPP is not being honest.

My $02.
Unless you are here to watch how we run our dyno tests, though a few customers here can verify, it is hard to prove that the video shown is NOT a "glory pass".
The tires changed between the 2 dyno runs that you state with the non supercharged done on STOCK tire and supercharged run shown on 37" HEAVY tire, that will SUCK the power.
We showed a dyno run on the wheel that the VAST majority of our customers will use. The end result is actually a lower AT WHEEL power rating than as compared to using a stock tire size. THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL GET. Also, the video is a one shot run, no editing. As real as it gets.

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Old 09-14-2013, 05:46 PM   #65
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I have to save room in my budget until next spring to do this mod. I do have one question though. The page says it's just $6K now, rather than $6,700. Is that $6K including the discount now? Assuming nothing drastic changes before next spring, will the "regular" price be $6K or $6,700?
$6K will be the regular website price. $6,700 is the MSRP.

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Is there any reason an accomplished shade tree mechanic (i.e. multiple engine rebuilds and an engine swap under my belt) would have any trouble with this install?
We design all of our systems with the backyard mechanic in mind. No special tools required, no tapping or drilling. Hardest part of our install is changing the injectors with the larger injectors that we provide.

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Finally, what do you recommend for an exhaust system to compliment this supercharger? I know the factory stock is somewhat restrictive and anything I can do to open it up will help but are headers and a full exhaust necessary to get the most out of the system or is a cat-back "good enough"?
For our 3.6L (2012-2013) our power ratings are shown with the factory exhaust installed. A cat back should be more than enough to open the flow up.

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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
What heads did you test it with? .. all versions or a specific version?
.
In our BETA program (OVER 30 Vehicles) we were able to test on varying build dates.Our in house 2012 is an early production model (took delivery in August 2011) with "AA" heads.

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What is the estimated ETA for the 2014 version?
Waiting on Diablosport to make a tune, the calibrations are the same, just need the tool load it.


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Old 09-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #66
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If you had a CNG ready injector option, I'd be all over this. You could advertise it as a real world 100% mpg gain, lol.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:41 AM   #67
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Sorry, but again, how long is the discount code good for?
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:41 PM   #68
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There is always a heckler when it comes to SuperChargers. I had one in the SuperStar thread. Here are some points I'll touch.

We spun our EXPERIMENTAL RIPP Supercharger for 29 hours straight the first day I had it. NJ to Colorado. It was just as fast in the last hour as it was in the first. There was no power loss after and hour of "heat soak".

I just drove it to Rock Krawler in albany and there was again no power loss in the second hour of the trip. I averaged near 90 MPH on that run. I couldn't believe how fast traffic was moving.

Im pretty sure the intercooler can keep up cooling the air. Im sure RIPP will chime in. The power loss you describe is nothing I've witnessed. We'll hear from others with RIPP units installed in the coming weeks. I'll bet no one claims that there is a loss of power after an hour of driving.

Your shot at RIPP "not being honest" combined with your plug for a competing supercharger company leaves me to think your motives are not entirely on the up and up.
No one, to my knowledge, makes a TVS supercharger for the 3.6. There is no "plug" for a product that does not exist. There are no motives here other than asking a retailer to post more information.

No offense, but a "butt dyno" is not as accurate as an actual dyno run. Perhaps there isn't any heat soak loss. If so, why not post videos proving as much?
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:49 PM   #69
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No one, to my knowledge, makes a TVS supercharger for the 3.6. There is no "plug" for a product that does not exist. There are no motives here other than asking a retailer to post more information.

No offense, but a "butt dyno" is not as accurate as an actual dyno run. Perhaps there isn't any heat soak loss. If so, why not post videos proving as much?
There is a tvs kit that is apparently coming out around October.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:41 AM   #70
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No one, to my knowledge, makes a TVS supercharger for the 3.6. There is no "plug" for a product that does not exist. There are no motives here other than asking a retailer to post more information.

No offense, but a "butt dyno" is not as accurate as an actual dyno run. Perhaps there isn't any heat soak loss. If so, why not post videos proving as much?
The video posted WAS done after multiple dyno runs.


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Old 09-16-2013, 12:03 PM   #71
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The only place a Twisted Vane or any other roots style blower might best a true internal compression supercharger is in low speed torque. Say 2000 to 4000 rpm. Blasting up a sand hill a Vortec or Twin Screw will out power a roots all thing being equal. And for heat soak an air to air is going to be less likely to be affected than an air to water sitting in the valley. I've built some blown and turbo/ supercharged motors and the roots motors all fell short on peak power in comparison to the supercharged ones. Not trying to argue with you just too many comparison dyno tests out there saying the same thing.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:05 PM   #72
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There is a tvs kit that is apparently coming out around October.
Who is making it?
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:13 PM   #73
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The only place a Twisted Vane or any other roots style blower might best a true internal compression supercharger is in low speed torque. Say 2000 to 4000 rpm. Blasting up a sand hill a Vortec or Twin Screw will out power a roots all thing being equal. And for heat soak an air to air is going to be less likely to be affected than an air to water sitting in the valley. I've built some blown and turbo/ supercharged motors and the roots motors all fell short on peak power in comparison to the supercharged ones. Not trying to argue with you just too many comparison dyno tests out there saying the same thing.
Yes

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Old 09-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #74
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The video posted WAS done after multiple dyno runs.


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Great, show the video.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:29 PM   #75
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The only place a Twisted Vane or any other roots style blower might best a true internal compression supercharger is in low speed torque. Say 2000 to 4000 rpm. Blasting up a sand hill a Vortec or Twin Screw will out power a roots all thing being equal. And for heat soak an air to air is going to be less likely to be affected than an air to water sitting in the valley. I've built some blown and turbo/ supercharged motors and the roots motors all fell short on peak power in comparison to the supercharged ones. Not trying to argue with you just too many comparison dyno tests out there saying the same thing.
Thing is, you use low end RPMs a lot more than peak in every day driving. A blower that gives you more power in the low RPM ranges is going to fill in where the 3.6 is a little lacking. Really high numbers up at 5-6K RPM are impressive but who drives their Jeep at those RPMs very often? I rarely take mine over 3,500 in every day driving. Crawling off road I avoid high RPMs because I prefer not to snap driveshafts or axles. The TV/Roots type blowers are better for the kind of driving a lot of us do.

Just my $0.02.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:34 PM   #76
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Great, show the video.
Your original post was semi interesting (although still classless) now you are just trolling. Tell me, what have you done for the wrangler community? What did you sink your money into to better the JK? What have you put on the market? Thought so.

You don't like their product, don't buy it. You are making yourself look like an imbecile.

BTW, from reading your posts, it is quite apparent to me you don't know very much about engines, forced induction, dynomometers, ECU tuning, drivetrain losses, heat losses, or anything else being discussed in this thread. I'd just pack it up and bow out.


P.S. Do you know how manufacturers get their HP/TQ numbers?
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:40 PM   #77
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Great, show the video.
The idea of a dyno video is not of 1 that lasts 60 minutes long. We have over 3000 system sold at this point with all report similar HP gais to those that we advertise. If what we advertise was "misleading" or untruthful, wouldn't it have been here for all to see? We did not get the reputation of best power adder for your Jeep for nothing. If time permits, we may make another video. Don't hold your breath.

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Old 09-16-2013, 12:45 PM   #78
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Interesting stuff. I have a supercharged '11 Tundra, TRD supercharger, and really like it. I may consider doing that to the JKUR someday although I'm not altogether unhappy with the stock engine in that vehicle. Any thoughts on how it might affect a Maximum Lifetime Chrysler warranty?
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #79
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Thing is, you use low end RPMs a lot more than peak in every day driving. A blower that gives you more power in the low RPM ranges is going to fill in where the 3.6 is a little lacking. Really high numbers up at 5-6K RPM are impressive but who drives their Jeep at those RPMs very often? I rarely take mine over 3,500 in every day driving. Crawling off road I avoid high RPMs because I prefer not to snap driveshafts or axles. The TV/Roots type blowers are better for the kind of driving a lot of us do.

Just my $0.02.
My experience with them is mostly street and top end racing. But a Vortec style supercharger will increase torque at lower speed over stock but it comes in on a gentle curve. A Roots or twin screw will come on fast and sometimes shock tires and drivetrain parts. A diesel has tons of lowend torque for crawling but it does not have the ability to rev like a gas motor does. You and I drive at lower speeds when crawling and around town but use a very small amount of throttle to do so. We never open up the air inlet track to make the big boost nor would we want to in the rocks. At least that's how I drive. Yet when we want to pass or run up a trail we give it some gas. Yes sometimes a blower might be better in a low speed application but they do increase the charge temps over what a supercharger does. Question is How often do we not have enough power to do something in 4 low crawling along.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:56 PM   #80
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Question is How often do we not have enough power to do something in 4 low crawling along.
If that's the case, why put on any power adder at all?
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #81
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Who is making it?
I believe magnuson was the other company working on one.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:22 PM   #82
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If that's the case, why put on any power adder at all?
I love my jku and while it's a daily driver and part time off roader I felt one thing was missing. I drove my buddy's ford raptor and loved the power and sound. My jeep does everything great but if there was ever any times I was a bit envious it was when I saw a raptor or a nice ram hemi or a wrangler lsx or hemi swap.

After installing a dynomax rock crawler catback and RIPP supercharger I am nottttt envious of any truck or jeep. I can't even put into words how sick it is to have a wrangler with 400+ horsepower on low boost only and it sounds like a jet taking off

I can understand why someone else would want a different set up but to me this is absolutely perfect. Also the guys at ripp were very helpful and easy to deal with. That goes a long way with me.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #83
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I love my jku and while it's a daily driver and part time off roader I felt one thing was missing. I drove my buddy's ford raptor and loved the power and sound. My jeep does everything great but if there was ever any times I was a bit envious it was when I saw a raptor or a nice ram hemi or a wrangler lsx or hemi swap.

After installing a dynomax rock crawler catback and RIPP supercharger I am nottttt envious of any truck or jeep. I can't even put into words how sick it is to have a wrangler with 400+ horsepower on low boost only and it sounds like a jet taking off

I can understand why someone else would want a different set up but to me this is absolutely perfect. Also the guys at ripp were very helpful and easy to deal with. That goes a long way with me.
I was being a bit facetious.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #84
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Thing is, you use low end RPMs a lot more than peak in every day driving. A blower that gives you more power in the low RPM ranges is going to fill in where the 3.6 is a little lacking. Really high numbers up at 5-6K RPM are impressive but who drives their Jeep at those RPMs very often? I rarely take mine over 3,500 in every day driving. Crawling off road I avoid high RPMs because I prefer not to snap driveshafts or axles. The TV/Roots type blowers are better for the kind of driving a lot of us do.

Just my $0.02.
The time when I want the boost is either when I'm overtaking or when I want to take off fast, and both occasions are going to involve mid-high rpm.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:27 PM   #85
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Great, show the video.
The video is in the first post of this thread. No one can show it to you. You have to click it to watch it yourself.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #86
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I was being a bit facetious.
Damn I wrote so much too lol
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:53 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by woansleftpeg View Post
The time when I want the boost is either when I'm overtaking or when I want to take off fast, and both occasions are going to involve mid-high rpm.
Then the RIPP setup would be best for you.

I prefer the TV/Roots style for the kind of driving I do.

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1986 J10 - 360/700R4/NP208/D44HD/D60FF - Truck Norris

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Old 09-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #88
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Damn I wrote so much too lol
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1986 J10 - 360/700R4/NP208/D44HD/D60FF - Truck Norris

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Old 09-16-2013, 02:02 PM   #89
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I want to see that cj when it's done !
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:11 PM   #90
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I want to see that cj when it's done !
It might take a while. It's been 9 years since I started taking it apart...
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2012 JK - 3.6/NSG370/NP241/D30/D44 - Grimm Jeeper
1986 J10 - 360/700R4/NP208/D44HD/D60FF - Truck Norris

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