The Official JK Aftermarket Lighting Thread (HID, HALO, Fog, Etc..) - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKUCRUSHMIKE View Post
Does anyone else feel that this is not how we want our light questions answered. Seperate topics are needed with the massive amount of light options that are available. Not impressed with posts being closed and pushed here.
+1

I am awfully annoyed that the threads were combined and now we will have to sift through this one to find the info we are looking for.

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Old 06-24-2012, 05:00 PM   #32
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I like this fourm but have seen some moderators make decisions that have surely made people go elsewhere.

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Old 06-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKUCRUSHMIKE View Post
Does anyone else feel that this is not how we want our light questions answered. Seperate topics are needed with the massive amount of light options that are available. Not impressed with posts being closed and pushed here.
Don't be too hard on the moderators; they're good people trying to do a fairly thankless job. This situation was mostly caused by just a couple of trolls from "another forum".
I feel their pain...

But I agree that this massive thread won't fill the needs of the membership.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:47 PM   #34
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Light topics are a common interest that does not deserve a open thread. A sticky with individual topics possibly, but to lump everything into a huge open topic does this fourm no justice. Just look at the very few posts here people that are trying to determine what lighting direction to go wont look at this general no information thread.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:54 PM   #35
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If you have a problem with how we run this forum take up with a Moderator or Admin via PM, do not post it in a thread!!!
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:02 AM   #36
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Thought this was interesting... Just love driving an "eternally old-school" icon!

Is the classic round headlight about to be dimmed? | Fox News
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:29 AM   #37
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Thought this was interesting... Just love driving an "eternally old-school" icon!

Is the classic round headlight about to be dimmed? | Fox News
Interesting story, despite some ommissions on their part. They completely forgot the motorcycle and big-truck market for 7" round par-56-based lights.
Thank goodness they exist too or we'd have no new lighting innovations to fit into our blunt-faced icons.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:31 PM   #38
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Typical. Not impressed.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:26 PM   #39
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Woop Woop!

The Brown Truck dropped off two packages today! They are from Daniel Stern. One contained the Cibie headlights, Narva 100/90wbulbs, and a pair of Tyco relays. Other package contained the complete wiring harness to make the upgrade plug -n- play from H13 to H4.

Another reason to look forward to the weekend!
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:51 AM   #40
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Does anyone else feel that this is not how we want our light questions answered. Seperate topics are needed with the massive amount of light options that are available. Not impressed with posts being closed and pushed here.
Agree 100%

I think there should be a whole forum dedicated to aux lighting in my opinion. we have one for tires, why not one for lighting?
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:32 PM   #41
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I guess I'm not allowed to say any more. Oh what the heck, it seems obvious that this thread is not wanted. Let us have our individual lighting threads back please.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #42
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Aux light wiring question(s)

I have a 2012 JKUS which I want to put aux driving lights on. My Jeep is primarily a DD in an urban neighborhood. I would like to wire the driving lights on on high beam, off on low beam. I am a retired Mechanical Engineer with a passing knowledge of wiring, but no knowledge of the CAN Buss, or pulse width modulation. Enough background here are my questions:

Secondary (signal) circuit:

1. Can I take a signal lead off the high beam wiring to operate the relay solenoid? Secondary question: Will the CAN BUSS interpret this as a failed circuit?, because of the additional load of the solenoid?

2. Can I incorporate a secondary switch in the signal circuit to turn off the aux lights, independent of the high beam operation? Secondary question same as above.

3. Will the high beam circuit protection also protect the above secondary circuit, or should this circuit be fused as well?

4. Will the pulse width modulation scheme cause the relay to cycle on and off, leading to a premature failure, or light flickering?

Assume a primary (load circuit) from the battery:

5. Is a 20 amp fuse sufficient for two 100w lights?

6. Should the lights be wired in series, or in parallel from the relay, to lights, to ground?

7. Last question: Is 14 gage wiring in the signal circuit and 12 gage wiring on the primary circuit sufficient?

Thanks, in advance, I'm doing my due diligence, before making the modification and I have found helpful advice on this forum in the past.

Stan
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:58 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKUCRUSHMIKE View Post
I guess I'm not allowed to say any more. Oh what the heck, it seems obvious that this thread is not wanted. Let us have our individual lighting threads back please.
What if you posted links to the other info threads like Hilldweller's, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stans1stjeep View Post
I have a 2012 JKUS which I want to put aux driving lights on. My Jeep is primarily a DD in an urban neighborhood. I would like to wire the driving lights on on high beam, off on low beam. I am a retired Mechanical Engineer with a passing knowledge of wiring, but no knowledge of the CAN Buss, or pulse width modulation. Enough background here are my questions:

Secondary (signal) circuit:

1. Can I take a signal lead off the high beam wiring to operate the relay solenoid? Secondary question: Will the CAN BUSS interpret this as a failed circuit?, because of the additional load of the solenoid?

2. Can I incorporate a secondary switch in the signal circuit to turn off the aux lights, independent of the high beam operation? Secondary question same as above.

3. Will the high beam circuit protection also protect the above secondary circuit, or should this circuit be fused as well?

4. Will the pulse width modulation scheme cause the relay to cycle on and off, leading to a premature failure, or light flickering?

Assume a primary (load circuit) from the battery:

5. Is a 20 amp fuse sufficient for two 100w lights?

6. Should the lights be wired in series, or in parallel from the relay, to lights, to ground?

7. Last question: Is 14 gage wiring in the signal circuit and 12 gage wiring on the primary circuit sufficient?

Thanks, in advance, I'm doing my due diligence, before making the modification and I have found helpful advice on this forum in the past.

Stan

Stan - I will take a shot at your questions.

1) Yes. It takes 12 volts but very low amperage to energize the relay.
2) Yes. Put the switch on the signal lead from the highbeam circuit to your relay.
3) Fuse the power wire from the battery that the relay on the secondary circuit will control.
4) Pulse width modulation will destroy the relay very quickly. Here's a link to a schematic for adding a capacitor to ensure constant 12V to the relay:
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relaybp2.gif

5) 100w divided by 12V = 8.3 amps X 2 = 16.6amps so 20 amp should be sufficient.
6) Run dual wires from pin 87 on relay, one for each light. Run a ground wire from each light to a common ground.
7) 14 gauge is fine for signal circuit. 10 or 12 gauge for power from battery to relay to lights.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:29 PM   #44
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What if you posted links to the other info threads like Hilldweller's, etc?




Stan - I will take a shot at your questions.

1) Yes. It takes 12 volts but very low amperage to energize the relay.
2) Yes. Put the switch on the signal lead from the highbeam circuit to your relay.
3) Fuse the power wire from the battery that the relay on the secondary circuit will control.
4) Pulse width modulation will destroy the relay very quickly. Here's a link to a schematic for adding a capacitor to ensure constant 12V to the relay:
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relaybp2.gif

5) 100w divided by 12V = 8.3 amps X 2 = 16.6amps so 20 amp should be sufficient.
6) Run dual wires from pin 87 on relay, one for each light. Run a ground wire from each light to a common ground.
7) 14 gauge is fine for signal circuit. 10 or 12 gauge for power from battery to relay to lights.
Thanks, this looks quite doable and you confirmed my suspicions.

Stan
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:31 AM   #45
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Good job, Silversport.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #46
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So will pulse width modulation kill the relay when it is used to signal the relay only?
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #47
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So will pulse width modulation kill the relay when it is used to signal the relay only?
The duty cycle of the PWM drops the voltage below nominal to hold the relay closed and it does it FAST.
Most relays buzz and then die.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #48
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Are the diode and capacitor necessary if acessories are just hooked to the battery? How does every relay powered circuit in the jeep work from the factory? I can't see every circuit using diodes and capacitors.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:45 PM   #49
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So I assume the rally lights harness has all this built into it correct.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:12 PM   #50
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The Rallylights harness has it built in.
The OE wiring doesn't need it since a filament light source doesn't cycle on/off as quickly as an LED. The OE light is cycling but you don't notice it; the cycle is that fast that the filament doesn't lose any appreciable intensity.
If you were to take a LUX reading of an OE headlight and one fed a constant 13.2 volts (what the standard calls for during the certification test) though, you'd likely notice a big difference.
When I scoped my JK's OE terminal I only got a maximum voltage of 12.6 volts.
PWM is a thief of lumens.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:29 PM   #51
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So, here's a follow up question: Given the coming popularity of PWM, are there any 20-30 amp relays currently available with a diode and capacitor built in?
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Good job, Silversport.
Thanks Hilldweller, I picked up lots of good info from reading your threads and corresponding with Daniel Stern.

Quote:
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So, here's a follow up question: Given the coming popularity of PWM, are there any 20-30 amp relays currently available with a diode and capacitor built in?
I have never seen or heard of one. The link I provided with the schematic of how to add the diode and capacitor was provided by Daniel Stern. Just guessing, but I since he is an expert on vehicle lighting, if such a relay were available I believe he would have mentioned it.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:40 PM   #53
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I have a question about the fog lights, is there a way that anyone knows to bypass the cut off to the fog lamps when you turn the high beams on? I did this mod on my 150 and loved it if searched and searched for my jk and haven't turned anything up. Anyone have any ideas?
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #54
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After studying the headlight/foglight schematics, there is a way to make this happen. However, I am not going to explain how to do it for one simple reason. If you aren't electrical savvy and don't do it correctly, you will "toast" the TIPM and wiring, resulting in expensive damage and/or an electrical fire.

If you PM me an email address I will supply the schematic. The rest is up to you.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #55
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I still don't understand how pwm will fry a relay when used as a trigger for fog lights. Does all the circuits in the jeep use pwm or just the headlight circuit. You see jeeps on here with a crap load of added electrical. Are they just adding everything to the battery? Thanks for the help.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:41 PM   #56
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Quote:
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I still don't understand how pwm will fry a relay when used as a trigger for fog lights. Does all the circuits in the jeep use pwm or just the headlight circuit. You see jeeps on here with a crap load of added electrical. Are they just adding everything to the battery? Thanks for the help.
Maybe I can explain it so it makes sense. Apply 12V to pin 86 and a ground to pin 85 and the relay energizes. As long as you keep the 12V applied, the relay stays energized. Now imagine you could vary the voltage. So we turn it down to 10-11 volts; the relay will probably stay energized. Go below 9-10 volts and it de-energizes.

With PWM the voltage keeps changing back and forth from approximately 12.5 volts to 4-5 volts. This voltage change happens very quickly (split second) and over and over. So the relay is constantly trying to switch from being energized to not being energized and back. Over and over and over. This overheats the windings in the relay and wears out the internal contacts.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:45 PM   #57
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Here's the headlight schematic.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:32 AM   #58
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Maybe I can explain it so it makes sense. Apply 12V to pin 86 and a ground to pin 85 and the relay energizes. As long as you keep the 12V applied, the relay stays energized. Now imagine you could vary the voltage. So we turn it down to 10-11 volts; the relay will probably stay energized. Go below 9-10 volts and it de-energizes.

With PWM the voltage keeps changing back and forth from approximately 12.5 volts to 4-5 volts. This voltage change happens very quickly (split second) and over and over. So the relay is constantly trying to switch from being energized to not being energized and back. Over and over and over. This overheats the windings in the relay and wears out the internal contacts.
This is it.

Simpler explanation.
Your living room light switch on a dimmer. Dim it up and down fast; that's what it's like with PWM and a filament light source.
Flick it on and off fast; that's what it's like with LED.

A relay is a switch; that's it. It needs a certain amount of power to hold it closed.
If you could find a good relay that only needed 4-15 volts, you wouldn't need the caps.

Now all this will be moot when the first smart company comes out with a plug-n-play adapter with caps/resistors wired inline. A simple H13 to H4 adapter that smooths the low side of the duty cycle to at least 9 volts.
I'm confident (hopeful?) that we'll see this soon.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:17 AM   #59
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:54 AM   #60
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So does this mean that in order to avoid pwm for windshield led lights that you need to trigger the relay from the battery? Can ignition power be taken from a blank spot in the fuse panel or is everything there pwm as well? I am still concerned in how the factory relaty's are triggered without going bad from pwm.

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