The Official JK Aftermarket Lighting Thread (HID, HALO, Fog, Etc..) - Page 38 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > General Tech Forums > Off Road and External Lighting

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 02-05-2013, 05:18 AM   #1111
Jeeper
 
peck1959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boilermaker_yv View Post
I installed a pair of JWs over the weekend...it took me less than 15 minutes and so far no flickering. I got them from DFS with the WF discount. Funny thing, the harness I got (you have the option to include harness when add to cart) was Trucklite.

Thats how I received mine. Discount fleet advised when I asked, that the JW adaptors and the TL's are the same thing, only the JW adaptors are twice as much. So, They ship the TL adaptors with the JW Speaker headlights.

peck1959 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 06:50 AM   #1112
Jeeper
 
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
Same on mine from Rebel Offroad, JW lights, TL adapters. I will say if you get the 6045s, get the JK Nemesis brackets. They are solid and easy to install (mine went in the AEV bumper).

__________________
2012 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Sahara Tan, 6 Speed
Leonidas is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 08:58 AM   #1113
Jeeper
 
Jlho1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 397
Re: The Official JK Aftermarket Lighting Thread (HID, HALO, Fog, Etc..)

Anyone have any input/experience with PUTCO H13 bulbs? Looking to upgrade my stock headlight bulbs. Researching fog replacements as well.

TIA
Jlho1980 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #1114
Jeeper
 
KEITHC69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 34
HID Lights

I just installed the HellFire HID Headlamp Upgrade with LED Fog Light Upgrade and I was completely blown away by the difference in the headlights now. I wasn't completely impressed with the LED Fog light upgrade though. You can barely tell that they're on. The only good thing with these would be they match the headlight's color now. I would like a better alternative for the fog lights, any ideas?
KEITHC69 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 11:46 AM   #1115
Jeeper
 
floridajpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 96
I looked up the headlight laws for the state of Florida and I did not see one statement that said HID's were illegal. Where are some of you getting your information for headlight laws from?

Florida Headlight Laws:

316.220 Headlamps on motor vehicles.—
(1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with at least two headlamps with at least one on each side of the front of the motor vehicle, which headlamps shall comply with the requirements and limitations set forth in this chapter, and shall show a white light. An object, material, or covering that alters the headlamp’s light color may not be placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied over a headlamp.

(2) Every headlamp upon every motor vehicle shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 24 inches to be measured as set forth in s. 316.217.

(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 172, ch. 99-248; s. 9, ch. 2000-313.
floridajpr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 11:52 AM   #1116
Jeeper
 
floridajpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEITHC69 View Post
I just installed the HellFire HID Headlamp Upgrade with LED Fog Light Upgrade and I was completely blown away by the difference in the headlights now. I wasn't completely impressed with the LED Fog light upgrade though. You can barely tell that they're on. The only good thing with these would be they match the headlight's color now. I would like a better alternative for the fog lights, any ideas?
I just installed the HellFire HID's a few weeks ago and I am very satisfied with them. I have yet to have anyone flash me for the HID's being too bright or for too much glare. I also looked up the headlight laws here in Florida and I have yet to find any mention of aftermarket HID headlights being Illegal.

Florida Headlight Laws:

316.220 Headlamps on motor vehicles.—
(1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with at least two headlamps with at least one on each side of the front of the motor vehicle, which headlamps shall comply with the requirements and limitations set forth in this chapter, and shall show a white light. An object, material, or covering that alters the headlamp’s light color may not be placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied over a headlamp.

(2) Every headlamp upon every motor vehicle shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 24 inches to be measured as set forth in s. 316.217.

(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 172, ch. 99-248; s. 9, ch. 2000-313.
floridajpr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 04:18 PM   #1117
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridajpr View Post
I just installed the HellFire HID's a few weeks ago and I am very satisfied with them. I have yet to have anyone flash me for the HID's being too bright or for too much glare. I also looked up the headlight laws here in Florida and I have yet to find any mention of aftermarket HID headlights being Illegal.

Florida Headlight Laws:

316.220 Headlamps on motor vehicles.—
(1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with at least two headlamps with at least one on each side of the front of the motor vehicle, which headlamps shall comply with the requirements and limitations set forth in this chapter, and shall show a white light. An object, material, or covering that alters the headlamp’s light color may not be placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied over a headlamp.

(2) Every headlamp upon every motor vehicle shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 24 inches to be measured as set forth in s. 316.217.

(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 172, ch. 99-248; s. 9, ch. 2000-313.
The way Federal regulations are written you can not retrofit HID bulbs into halogen reflectors. So there are no HID kits that are DOT compliant. Is not a state thing, is federal.
the Grouch is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 05:18 PM   #1118
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 73
Just installed Recon front turn and side fender LED's. First of all, the side fender ones ARE direct plug "break the clip" and play... The front turn signals....ARE NOT. IMO...very shitty job by Recon. Extremely tight fit. No room to connect lights from behind, have to unclip them from the front grill to install which is a headache. You have to splice the factor wire harness and connect the biggest piece of sh@t load resistors which broke and needed to be re-soldered. The splicing clips they provide are garbage....had to solder everything to be done the right way. You have to mount the resistors directly to a metal surface which means removing an area of paint in or outside the shock mount to ensure proper heat disbursement. No screws where provided to then mount the resistors.
Im not going to keep going....it was just a frustrating experience. Simple instructions and proper hardware would have been nice. All in all, I love the look. Just don't market them as Plug N' Play.
PS...if anyone else has installed them, I would love to see where you mounted the resistors.
kjb914 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 06:07 PM   #1119
Jeeper
 
floridajpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Grouch View Post
The way Federal regulations are written you can not retrofit HID bulbs into halogen reflectors. So there are no HID kits that are DOT compliant. Is not a state thing, is federal.
I guess I am going to have to enlighten you with the Federal Laws

FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR MOTOR VEHICLE LIGHTING

All lighting on motor vehicles is governed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. This is a federal regulation promulgated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration under its general authority to regulate motor vehicle equipment granted by the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act. The federal lighting standards apply to the original equipment on motor vehicles and to replacements for this original equipment. The entities subject to the requirements include manufacturers, importers, distributors, dealers, and motor vehicle repair businesses. Lights and lighting equipment must be marked with certain designations that show its compliance with the federal standards. (49 CFR § 571.108)

The standards do not set a single maximum intensity for all possible types and designs or headlamps because the types of lights and lighting systems designed by manufacturers make a single standard impossible. Rather, FMVSS No. 108 determines the maximum allowable light intensity for a light by its design and the type of lighting system being used. The maximum light output for a particular headlight is determined at a specific point in its aiming pattern. Other maximums apply at other points in the light's aiming pattern. Compliance is determined through a specific set of test procedures.

The federal lighting standard is very complex and is difficult to interpret even for some manufacturers and lighting specialists. The actual performance standards are based principally on the standards developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). FMVSS No. 108 and the SAE standards apply to all vehicles registered in the United States, regardless of the headlamp filament or light source. Stated simply, the maximum light output of headlamp systems, whether two-or four-light systems, is limited as follows:

1. Type 2 or 2A Lights—Upper beam limited to 20,000 to 75,000 candela per lamp. Lower beam limited to 15,000 to 20,000 candela per lamp.

2. Type 1 or 1A Lights—Upper beam limited to 18,000 to 60,000 candela per lamp.

A candela is the basic unit of measure of luminous intensity in the International System of Units. Although the candela has a specific technical definition expressed in terms of a specific frequency and power, in layman's terms it approximates the light output of a common candle. A 100-watt light bulb emits about 120 candela.

JF:dw

Nowhere in the federal laws does it say anything about HID's being Illegal!

Anywhere else you gonna get some laws that say anything about HID's being Illegal? Nope, I dont think so! Stop the Nonsense!
floridajpr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 06:25 PM   #1120
Jeeper
 
Jlho1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 397
Re: The Official JK Aftermarket Lighting Thread (HID, HALO, Fog, Etc..)

Is there a separate fuse for the passenger and driver side dome light? Reason my asking is bc the passenger side works but the driver side does not. I replaced the stock bulbs with LEDs 194 wedge bulbs (unplugged the map lights) and I got the look I want but sans one side...ideas/thoughts?

TIA
Jlho1980 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 06:26 PM   #1121
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 132
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridajpr View Post
I guess I am going to have to enlighten you with the Federal Laws

FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR MOTOR VEHICLE LIGHTING

All lighting on motor vehicles is governed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. This is a federal regulation promulgated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration under its general authority to regulate motor vehicle equipment granted by the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act. The federal lighting standards apply to the original equipment on motor vehicles and to replacements for this original equipment. The entities subject to the requirements include manufacturers, importers, distributors, dealers, and motor vehicle repair businesses. Lights and lighting equipment must be marked with certain designations that show its compliance with the federal standards. (49 CFR § 571.108)

The standards do not set a single maximum intensity for all possible types and designs or headlamps because the types of lights and lighting systems designed by manufacturers make a single standard impossible. Rather, FMVSS No. 108 determines the maximum allowable light intensity for a light by its design and the type of lighting system being used. The maximum light output for a particular headlight is determined at a specific point in its aiming pattern. Other maximums apply at other points in the light's aiming pattern. Compliance is determined through a specific set of test procedures.

The federal lighting standard is very complex and is difficult to interpret even for some manufacturers and lighting specialists. The actual performance standards are based principally on the standards developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). FMVSS No. 108 and the SAE standards apply to all vehicles registered in the United States, regardless of the headlamp filament or light source. Stated simply, the maximum light output of headlamp systems, whether two-or four-light systems, is limited as follows:

1. Type 2 or 2A Lights—Upper beam limited to 20,000 to 75,000 candela per lamp. Lower beam limited to 15,000 to 20,000 candela per lamp.

2. Type 1 or 1A Lights—Upper beam limited to 18,000 to 60,000 candela per lamp.

A candela is the basic unit of measure of luminous intensity in the International System of Units. Although the candela has a specific technical definition expressed in terms of a specific frequency and power, in layman's terms it approximates the light output of a common candle. A 100-watt light bulb emits about 120 candela.

JF:dw

Nowhere in the federal laws does it say anything about HID's being Illegal!

Anywhere else you gonna get some laws that say anything about HID's being Illegal? Nope, I dont think so! Stop the Nonsense!
Read the actual standards quoted on your post. (49 CFR 571.108) They do not allow to retrofit non-filaments bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs.

HID headlights can be DOT compliant (legal) HID kits for halogen headlights can not be DOT compliant (legal) see the section about lighting on the link below

http://www.sema.org/federal-regulati...ermarket-parts .
the Grouch is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 06:38 PM   #1122
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridajpr

I guess I am going to have to enlighten you with the Federal Laws

FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR MOTOR VEHICLE LIGHTING

All lighting on motor vehicles is governed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. This is a federal regulation promulgated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration under its general authority to regulate motor vehicle equipment granted by the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act. The federal lighting standards apply to the original equipment on motor vehicles and to replacements for this original equipment. The entities subject to the requirements include manufacturers, importers, distributors, dealers, and motor vehicle repair businesses. Lights and lighting equipment must be marked with certain designations that show its compliance with the federal standards. (49 CFR § 571.108)

The standards do not set a single maximum intensity for all possible types and designs or headlamps because the types of lights and lighting systems designed by manufacturers make a single standard impossible. Rather, FMVSS No. 108 determines the maximum allowable light intensity for a light by its design and the type of lighting system being used. The maximum light output for a particular headlight is determined at a specific point in its aiming pattern. Other maximums apply at other points in the light's aiming pattern. Compliance is determined through a specific set of test procedures.

The federal lighting standard is very complex and is difficult to interpret even for some manufacturers and lighting specialists. The actual performance standards are based principally on the standards developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). FMVSS No. 108 and the SAE standards apply to all vehicles registered in the United States, regardless of the headlamp filament or light source. Stated simply, the maximum light output of headlamp systems, whether two-or four-light systems, is limited as follows:

1. Type 2 or 2A Lights—Upper beam limited to 20,000 to 75,000 candela per lamp. Lower beam limited to 15,000 to 20,000 candela per lamp.

2. Type 1 or 1A Lights—Upper beam limited to 18,000 to 60,000 candela per lamp.

A candela is the basic unit of measure of luminous intensity in the International System of Units. Although the candela has a specific technical definition expressed in terms of a specific frequency and power, in layman's terms it approximates the light output of a common candle. A 100-watt light bulb emits about 120 candela.

JF:dw

Nowhere in the federal laws does it say anything about HID's being Illegal!

Anywhere else you gonna get some laws that say anything about HID's being Illegal? Nope, I dont think so! Stop the Nonsense!
Well, the problem is that the optical surfaces of the headlamps plastic reflector are designed for a specific filament shape, size, and location. Each bulb has a specific indexing feature. The indexing feature is also in the molded reflector. This is to keep customers from using the wrong bulb in their headlamp - thus insuring that the right filament parameters are being used. These aftermarket HID systems dont use a filament and the light given off is being reflected out of the lamp in places that were not intended when the lamps reflector was designed - in areas that glare other drivers. This why all OEM applications of HID light systems are used in projectors (there is one exception tho). The projector utilizes a shield inside to prevent the light from glaring other drivers. In addition to not being able to control the light location, there is much more light out out with the HID system. So, even is the Jeep engineers designed the reflector to accommodate the location if the light, the excess LUX would most likely drive noncompliance in legal test points in the glare region. So, I can guarantee that a retrofitted HID system would not yield a legal lamp. But, no cop would ever be smart enough to know an prove that your lamps are illegal.

Before you install your kit, shine your lamps on a wall at 25'. Mark the locations of the wheels and the location of the marks on the wall. Then, after you install the HID system, put you jeep in the same location and make sure you don't have light above the line marked on the wall. This should probably be done before and after a lift kit install too!

Matt
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 07:10 PM   #1123
Jeeper
 
floridajpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Grouch View Post
Read the actual standards quoted on your post. (49 CFR 571.108) They do not allow to retrofit non-filaments bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs.

HID headlights can be DOT compliant (legal) HID kits for halogen headlights can not be DOT compliant (legal).
I read all of the (49 CFR § 571.108) and nowhere does it say anything about HID's being ILLEGAL! I would post the whole thing but it would be several pages long!
Also I did not see anything about not allowing retrofit non-filament bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs anywhere in the 49 CFR 571.108!
There is alot of reading for headlights, Taillights, and any kind of light you can imagine in the 49 CFR 571.108 codes but I did not read any of the above mentioned about non-filament bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs. I call BS!
floridajpr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 07:23 PM   #1124
Jeeper
 
floridajpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by J33P4X4 View Post
Well, the problem is that the optical surfaces of the headlamps plastic reflector are designed for a specific filament shape, size, and location. Each bulb has a specific indexing feature. The indexing feature is also in the molded reflector. This is to keep customers from using the wrong bulb in their headlamp - thus insuring that the right filament parameters are being used. These aftermarket HID systems dont use a filament and the light given off is being reflected out of the lamp in places that were not intended when the lamps reflector was designed - in areas that glare other drivers. This why all OEM applications of HID light systems are used in projectors (there is one exception tho). The projector utilizes a shield inside to prevent the light from glaring other drivers. In addition to not being able to control the light location, there is much more light out out with the HID system. So, even is the Jeep engineers designed the reflector to accommodate the location if the light, the excess LUX would most likely drive noncompliance in legal test points in the glare region. So, I can guarantee that a retrofitted HID system would not yield a legal lamp. But, no cop would ever be smart enough to know an prove that your lamps are illegal.

Before you install your kit, shine your lamps on a wall at 25'. Mark the locations of the wheels and the location of the marks on the wall. Then, after you install the HID system, put you jeep in the same location and make sure you don't have light above the line marked on the wall. This should probably be done before and after a lift kit install too!

Matt
I have the Rebel Offroad Hellfire HID's and they have a video showing that the HID's do not blind or hinder oncoming traffic. I have had the kit installed for almost three weeks and I have been driving from Jax, FL. to Gainesville, FL. in the dark morning hours and back to Jax, FL. from Gainesville, FL. every day since I instaleed the HID's without anyone flashing me. I had my brother take his Jeep out and drive towards me several times at night and he says he does not get any glare whatsoever from the HellFire HID's. He said he was pretty impressed with the way the HellFire HID's perform. This is coming from someone that has the LED Trucklites on their Jeep.
floridajpr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 07:30 PM   #1125
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridajpr View Post
I read all of the (49 CFR § 571.108) and nowhere does it say anything about HID's being ILLEGAL! I would post the whole thing but it would be several pages long!
Also I did not see anything about not allowing retrofit non-filament bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs anywhere in the 49 CFR 571.108!
There is alot of reading for headlights, Taillights, and any kind of light you can imagine in the 49 CFR 571.108 codes but I did not read any of the above mentioned about non-filament bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs. I call BS!
Paragraph S5.8 requires compliance with FMVSS 108. S7.7 of FMVSS requires dimensional conformity. An HID can not meet the dimensional specifications for wire coil filaments, and the ballast would need to be already approved for use with a halogen bulb. That is why the nhtsa has been denying compliance for all halogen replacement HID kits for the last decade.
the Grouch is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 07:41 PM   #1126
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Grouch

Paragraph S5.8 requires compliance with FMVSS 108. S7.7 of FMVSS requires dimensional conformity. An HID can not meet the dimensional specifications for wire coil filaments, and the ballast would need to be already approved for use with a halogen bulb. That is why the nhtsa has been denying compliance for all halogen replacement HID kits for the last decade.
You're right! Except the part about the ballast. They are not required for the ignition of halogen bulbs. It's simple. The test point maximums in the glare region are exceeded with these kits.
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 07:46 PM   #1127
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridajpr

I did not read any of the above mentioned about non-filament bulbs into a reflector designed for filament bulbs. I call BS!
The reg states that you can not exceed the maximum lumen levels at test points above H/V (above the horizon line - glare regions). You will be doing this with the HID retrofit.
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 07:48 PM   #1128
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridajpr

I have the Rebel Offroad Hellfire HID's and they have a video showing that the HID's do not blind or hinder oncoming traffic. I have had the kit installed for almost three weeks and I have been driving from Jax, FL. to Gainesville, FL. in the dark morning hours and back to Jax, FL. from Gainesville, FL. every day since I instaleed the HID's without anyone flashing me. I had my brother take his Jeep out and drive towards me several times at night and he says he does not get any glare whatsoever from the HellFire HID's. He said he was pretty impressed with the way the HellFire HID's perform. This is coming from someone that has the LED Trucklites on their Jeep.
Too bad the the OEMs could hire your brother to evaluate legal compliance. It would save them tons of money that they spend on testing.
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 08:47 PM   #1129
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by J33P4X4 View Post
You're right! Except the part about the ballast. They are not required for the ignition of halogen bulbs. It's simple. The test point maximums in the glare region are exceeded with these kits.
Exactly. And since a halogen headlights has no ballast a replacement bulb can not require ballasts to function.
the Grouch is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 08:56 PM   #1130
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Grouch

Exactly. And since a halogen headlights has no ballast a replacement bulb can not require ballasts to function.
No, it's just exceeding test point maximums. Ballasts are used on OEM hid systems.
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 09:14 PM   #1131
Jeeper
 
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 392
First good night run with the JWs and I couldn't be more impressed.
__________________
2012 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Sahara Tan, 6 Speed
Leonidas is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 10:24 PM   #1132
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by J33P4X4 View Post
No, it's just exceeding test point maximums. Ballasts are used on OEM hid systems.
No, HID kits meant for halogen housings are non-compliant by design. A replacement bulb for a halogen light has to be the same as the one it replaces in dimensions and connections. The NHSTA has cited both he lack of filaments and the need for ballast as a reason why HID kits can not be certified as DOT compliant.

SEMA has complained and said they should be judged on performance not design. But, as the regulations are written you can not do that. An HID bulb can not be legally used on a halogen housing.
the Grouch is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-05-2013, 11:00 PM   #1133
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Grouch

No, HID kits meant for halogen housings are non-compliant by design. A replacement bulb for a halogen light has to be the same as the one it replaces in dimensions and connections. The NHSTA has cited both he lack of filaments and the need for ballast as a reason why HID kits can not be certified as DOT compliant.

SEMA has complained and said they should be judged on performance not design. But, as the regulations are written you can not do that. An HID bulb can not be legally used on a halogen housing.
Well, truth be told, I'm actually a lighting engineer for one of the big 3. You're exactly right about replacing the old bulb with one of the same type. It is because the lamps have been certified with those bulbs (test point data has to be sent as part of the compliance summary). OEMs pay suppliers to do this testing as it is required under FMVSS108. When the light source is replaced with different model, the validation is no longer valid - There isn't any validation for the new bulb or that the lamp meets regulations. And I can tell you it will not meet requirements set out in FMVSS108. They are being judged by the performance and design. No aftermarket company can or will test their kits to meet legal requirements for every possible retrofit. That's why they will never be legal.

Again, no cop will know anyway. I'm just asking for people to re-aim the lamps.
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 07:04 AM   #1134
Jeeper
 
Jlho1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 397
can anyone help a newb out with my lighting questions?
Jlho1980 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 07:24 AM   #1135
Jeeper
 
cyclone88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 227
Guys...can we stay on track here? Please refer to post #1
"Not all lighting options are legal and it is up
to the individual buying/installing the lights
to determine if it is legal or not. It is not up
to the members or staff of this forum to
make that decision for you.

__________________________________________________


If you plan to post your opinion or interpretation about the legality of certain lights, DON'T!!!

This thread and any other JK lighting thread is to be a discussion about lights, not the law. If you
can't do that, STAY OUT!!! And if you can't do that either, it's three strikes and
you're out. Third offense is a permanent ban.

This is your ONLY warning."
__________________
'12 JK | Black Forest Green
cyclone88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 09:39 AM   #1136
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone88
Guys...can we stay on track here? Please refer to post #1
"Not all lighting options are legal and it is up
to the individual buying/installing the lights
to determine if it is legal or not. It is not up
to the members or staff of this forum to
make that decision for you.

__________________________________________________

If you plan to post your opinion or interpretation about the legality of certain lights, DON'T!!!

This thread and any other JK lighting thread is to be a discussion about lights, not the law. If you
can't do that, STAY OUT!!! And if you can't do that either, it's three strikes and
you're out. Third offense is a permanent ban.

This is your ONLY warning."
Haha.. Ok.. Thanks for the note. Ill stay out of this thread. Too much internets to be corrected
J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 09:56 AM   #1137
Jeeper
 
cyclone88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 227
No worries - just wouldn't want folks to get banned! It's a generally helpful thread, sometimes just necessary to ignore certain things.

Jlho - I don't even have map lights...so unfortunately I have no idea! But I've used this diagram before for reference, pretty handy. Forgive the link to the competition...
Jeep JK Fuse Box Map Layout Diagram - JeepForum.com
__________________
'12 JK | Black Forest Green
cyclone88 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 11:22 AM   #1138
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Which Vison X?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman1138 View Post
I had noticed the same that when I had changed out the stock bulbs with LED bulbs.
Now that I have upgraded to the Vision X LED fog light replacements, I'm not sure what is going on there.
I really like the Vision X fog lights and urge everyone to check them out.
100% get them and they go great with my Truck-Lite LED headlights.
What model number Vision X fogs did you use? Do they fit the stock bumper hole? Did you run them off of the existing, factory switch? Thanks
JBWitten is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #1139
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by J33P4X4 View Post
Well, truth be told, I'm actually a lighting engineer for one of the big 3. You're exactly right about replacing the old bulb with one of the same type. It is because the lamps have been certified with those bulbs (test point data has to be sent as part of the compliance summary). OEMs pay suppliers to do this testing as it is required under FMVSS108. When the light source is replaced with different model, the validation is no longer valid - There isn't any validation for the new bulb or that the lamp meets regulations. And I can tell you it will not meet requirements set out in FMVSS108. They are being judged by the performance and design. No aftermarket company can or will test their kits to meet legal requirements for every possible retrofit. That's why they will never be legal.

Again, no cop will know anyway. I'm just asking for people to re-aim the lamps.
Thanks for clarifying. You obviously know more than I do on the subject of automotive lights.

I guess the bottom line is that retrofitting HID bulbs into a halogen housing is not legal and could get you a ticket.Whether that is something people care or not, is up to them but at he very least they should know what they are getting themselves into.
the Grouch is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-06-2013, 03:39 PM   #1140
Jeeper
 
J33P4X4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Grouch

Thanks for clarifying. You obviously know more than I do on the subject of automotive lights.

I guess the bottom line is that retrofitting HID bulbs into a halogen housing is not legal and could get you a ticket.Whether that is something people care or not, is up to them but at he very least they should know what they are getting themselves into.
with all my blabbing, I'm still upgrading mine with HIDs. I bought mine from VVME.com and ended up filling a despite with my credit card company against VVME. I have installed them on my wives Malibu and I love the color temperature of the HID bulbs (6000k vs factory as 3400K). I'm looking for a good solution for my Jeeps fog lamps tho. The fog lamps I have are the Hypervision bulb (2013 model). It looks like some older models had a halogen versions. I was thinking about just adding the LED bulbs to the lamps so they will match the color of the HID but I'm undecided. The other option would be to buy the older halogen versions and retrofit them with HIDs also.

J33P4X4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC