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Old 11-27-2010, 08:34 AM   #31
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It's a bit hard to understand, why you guys are making this such a big thing !

If someone says to "run 28psi in your 33" tires", do you ask for WRITTEN PROOF FROM GOODYEAR/BFG/MICHELIN ???

If someone says 'be sure and strap things down in your cargo area, so they won't fly around", do you need written proof from wreck survivors ???

If someone says "don't turn SHARP when in 4lo/4hi" do you need written proof ??

---------------------------------NO--------------------------------

This is a 4wd forum, when you have a question-you ask, and get multiple answers-evaluate-use your common sense then go with it

When there are pics, great, articles-great, videos-great, what you may consider WRITTEN PROOF may not be available, without time consuming research !!

---------------------LIVE WITHIT--------------------------

I'll stand by my advice, that using REVERSE to perform RECOVERY is inherently dangerous, to the Diff, especially front and transmissions/windshields-

If you can't turn around, then use your judgement, a shackle can help, especially if it's a real difficult RECOVERY-especially a winch, could be the savior

Smokem if you gottem !!

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Old 11-27-2010, 10:32 AM   #32
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I found this, I am not sure how creditable the source is but that is for you to decide
Here is the web site for ref
Introduction to Differential Gearing

It backs up what shrubeck was saying, the gears are cut to be stronger in a direction, the forward direction.

All this said the transmission give the most power out in the reverse gear, if I need more power I am going to be pulling in reverse



Regular versus Reverse Rotation Gears


Differential gears have directional teeth. This results in the individual teeth having both a drive side and a coast side to the teeth.
They can run in either direction but ideally you want the drive side to be taking the larger load under acceleration. This is primarily because the drive side of the tooth is in the range of 20 to 30% stronger than the coast side of the gear. This is referred to as a regular rotation gear set.
You would logically assume that all differentials are designed to drive on the drive side of the tooth but this is not the case. The vast majority of rear differentials do run on the drive side of the teeth. Most front differentials run on the coast side of the teeth. An example is Land Rover.
Many Land Rover front and rear differentials are interchangeable, i.e. you can switch them back and forth. The rear diff is running in the correct direction. The front differential is actually running backwards compared to the rear! This is not normally a big issue but if you want to maximize the durability of the ring and pinion gears, you can accomplish this by reversing the cut of the front gears. These are known as a reverse cut or a reverse rotation design. These will make the backwards running, front differential gears mesh properly, i.e. drive on the drive side of the teeth. As noted earlier, the drive side of the gear teeth are substantially more durable so you increase the durability of the front gear set by 20%+ by this change alone. We were the first and are currently the only Land Rover differential gear supplier that incorporates this benefit into our designs.

A secondary but significant advantage of front reverse cut gears is longer bearing life. This is because the larger, better lubricated, inner pinion bearing is taking the load under acceleration.

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Old 11-27-2010, 10:47 AM   #33
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Thanks for the info. Its always good to know more. I think the people wanting more info would all agree on that
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:24 AM   #34
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Thanx for more info, but

Dana 44 gears. Dana 30/35/60 gears aren't used in the Land Rovers !!

Just a point

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Old 11-27-2010, 12:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Thanx for more info, but

Dana 44 gears. Dana 30/35/60 gears aren't used in the Land Rovers !!

Just a point

JIMBO

I dont know could you cite a source
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:07 PM   #36
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--Not a chance !


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I dont know could you cite a source
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:13 PM   #37
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wow ... this is a hard thread to keep up with..

strapping to gears to ????
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:29 PM   #38
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I have a little different way of thinking about it. Up here most of the time if you are stuck it will be in very thick and deep mud or muskeg. I have pulled out more jeeps successfully in reverse than in forward because of the fact that if you are pulling forward you are actually pulling against the force of the differentials digging themselves into the mud. Whereas if you pull backwards the diff's don't dig in. The breakage factor is always there as I have seen many Toyota's snap axles, never a jeep yet. Also I would like to add all of my recoveries have been done with a "recovery strap" not a winch. All the axle/gear breakage's I've seen were done while using a winch, probably because of the downward force being produced as the winch pulls down on the front end (theory). Sometimes you can only go forward to recover a vehicle because of space available and safety reasons. As to removing cars and such from ditches, I always state that any damage that occurs is not my fault and I am not liable for any that may occur during the recovery process to the persons vehicle. If they agree with these terms then the removal will commence, but I always make sure the people understand that it is possible something on their car may break.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:32 PM   #39
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:34 PM   #40
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Good point and very well put-


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjones View Post
I have a little different way of thinking about it. Up here most of the time if you are stuck it will be in very thick and deep mud or muskeg. I have pulled out more jeeps successfully in reverse than in forward because of the fact that if you are pulling forward you are actually pulling against the force of the differentials digging themselves into the mud. Whereas if you pull backwards the diff's don't dig in. The breakage factor is always there as I have seen many Toyota's snap axles, never a jeep yet. Also I would like to add all of my recoveries have been done with a "recovery strap" not a winch. All the axle/gear breakage's I've seen were done while using a winch, probably because of the downward force being produced as the winch pulls down on the front end (theory). Sometimes you can only go forward to recover a vehicle because of space available and safety reasons. As to removing cars and such from ditches, I always state that any damage that occurs is not my fault and I am not liable for any that may occur during the recovery process to the persons vehicle. If they agree with these terms then the removal will commence, but I always make sure the people understand that it is possible something on their car may break.
We need variety and I'll stick to my age old beliefs, but I appreciate your info entry !!

Since we are a free people--decide for yourself and act accordingly !!

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Old 11-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #41
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I figure whatever works, works.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:40 PM   #42
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OK, so the reverse gear being weak argument is just that...weak. When you park a manual transmission vehicle you're told to put it in first OR reverse as they are the lowest and strongest gears. Not to mention, many times your reverse gear is straight cut, increasing strength. On an automatic, the same set of clutches are engaged in first and reverse...and those are your strongest clutch packs.

Now the differential gear argument is absolutely valid. The way the gears are cut make them significantly weaker pulling in reverse.

Anyone looking for validation of these opinions, I point you to 4WheelOffroad's Q&A section:

November 2010 Nuts & Bolts - 4-Wheel & Off-Road Magazine
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjones View Post
force of the differentials digging themselves into the mud.

Say what?
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:05 PM   #44
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Sooooooooo did anyone in this heated debate see my post with the ring gear?
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:00 PM   #45
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oh dear

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