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Old 07-09-2014, 06:46 PM   #1
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Boycott the 2017 wrangler

I say fiat is trying to let us down softly....first it was a rumor...no SFAs then it appears no new wrangler till 2017 ....sign of a complete re engineer.. Now "Jeep’s CEO Mike Manley sees a reason for this potential change in direction. “You can’t sell 19,000-plus retail Wranglers [as the brand did in May] to people who just want to go off-roading,” Manley told AutoNews. “Why would, for example, somebody else’s SUV that’s really an on-road soft SUV not be for me a genuine target for Wrangler?”

I will never buy the POS they intend on building..their junk compass and junk patriot failed in the soft market now they want to GUT the wrangler to use its name for marketshare...

would u ever buy a compass modified for SFAs no then why would u never buy a wrangler built as ISF then made into SFA... in short I will never buy a 2017 or newer wrangler..

he argues that 19k sales a month are not to offroaders I AGREE that most including myself don't offroad...BUT I LIKE KNOWING I COULD.. its what I spent the money for... I spent money for something I never use....and I suspect MANY of the 19k a month did also...but with the thought of JUST IN CASE I NEED IT in mind.....I bought the wrangler

I intend to trade my 2013 and buy a 2016 rubicon and keep it forever...I would strongly sugest ALL of you do the same...the wrangler now is to the new 2017 wrangler what the Cherokee was to the liberty and new Cherokee...that is awesome with SFA versus the junk that replaced it

its sad fiat wants to wreck a proven vehicle...in the same breath bragging about its 19k sales a month then disparaging that same vehicle for now being a rav 4.

JUNK...
like the patriot with freedom drive II

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Old 07-09-2014, 06:52 PM   #2
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I'm not convinced it will happen. But if it does, I'll just pay the extra few thousand for the Toyota LC70 short wheelbase which is still in production here. Almost as good as a JK, it just needs anti slip or lockers installed. The Defender 90 is another option but they are just too expensive. But I'm rooting for Jeep.

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Old 07-09-2014, 06:58 PM   #3
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There won't be a Wrangler with IFS in my garage.
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Old 07-09-2014, 07:03 PM   #4
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Also, I have said it before, it is possible to make a capable off road vehicle with IFS but the cost of engineering, modifying, and maintaining is way too high.
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Old 07-09-2014, 07:14 PM   #5
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I read an article the other day where the author thinks (pure speculation) the next Wrangler may not have a removable top but instead a super sized sunroof. My guess for 2017 - I think you're looking at IFS, the fold-down front window is gone, and they'll be more aerodynamic (less boxy). Those things won't change their sales numbers dramatically but losing the removable top I believe would be catastrophic for Fiat/Jeep.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:26 PM   #6
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ROTFLMAO....... I hear you people complaining about a vehicle that HAS ALREADY been ruined..........

It is all the whining about "creature comforts" that ruined the brand already....
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:45 PM   #7
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If it is true hang on to what you have. It will increase in value. The older the more it will be worth. Wish I would have kept my TJ.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:03 PM   #8
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Well I had hoped to keep my 2000 TJ till I could see the next one, but I sold it for parts last week - frame rot not worth the cost of repair I for one quite like what Mike is saying -THE Jeep has to come into 21st century. He knows the entire Jeep brand hangs on the Wrangler - it is Jeep's mitochondrial DNA. He will not kill it - at the very least the next 'Rubicon' will need to match or better the current one on the trail for the press previews. There is still scope for smaller engines and (much) better road handling for those who want the looks without the mud. CAFE is an average - make the next Rubicon expensive and unbeatable and something shiny, puny but economical at the other end of the range. For those religiously anti IFS, please note there are plenty of very serious off-road vehicles out there (e.g. Bowler EXR, BMW X-Raid) that already have IFS. Of course if I am wrong then AEV will be getting yet another order for full tricked last build JK.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Phooz View Post
There won't be a Wrangler with IFS in my garage.
You wont see a Wrangler with coil springs in my driveway. I am lucky I have a 95 rust free example of a true offroad machine. I don't want or need airbags, IFS, ABS or ABC for that matter . Fiat will learn the lesson too late that all of this garbage is not why people buy and has always bought Jeeps. The public wants a tough go any where vehicle not a luxury car.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:53 PM   #10
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These threads make me laugh. Jeep is selling every single Wrangler they can build right now. They have added people simply to keep up.

Honestly, its the people yelling the wrangler has already been ruined or I will never have a Jeep with coil springs that is making it easier for Fiat to go soft -ute with the next gen. If you have already removed yourself from their pool of prospective buyers, why would they cater to you? they already have tons of people lined up to buy, so why go after the small % that says they already suck?

That's simple business...
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Old 07-11-2014, 04:55 PM   #11
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These threads make me laugh. Jeep is selling every single Wrangler they can build right now. They have added people simply to keep up.

Honestly, its the people yelling the wrangler has already been ruined or I will never have a Jeep with coil springs that is making it easier for Fiat to go soft -ute with the next gen. If you have already removed yourself from their pool of prospective buyers, why would they cater to you? they already have tons of people lined up to buy, so why go after the small % that says they already suck?

That's simple business...
Yea but sooner or later our vehicles will need to be replaced. Do they really want to alienate themselves from potential customers when other manufacturers will fill the void?
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:57 PM   #12
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IFS will save the wrangler from certain death......for guys who do easy off roading like myself ie fins and things, hells revenge, top of the world that kind of stuff IFS would kick ass. lighter, handle better etc. Hard core guys will still be able to be hard core, look at king of hammers I saw a lot of IFS there doing pretty freaking hard core rock and rolling they will just have to spend more money. lol.
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:04 PM   #13
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Yea but sooner or later our vehicles will need to be replaced. Do they really want to alienate themselves from potential customers when other manufacturers will fill the void?
Well look at I this way. You are driving a 95 (I almost bought a 94 btw so I don't hate em) and if you bought it new you haven't been a customer for 19 years. If you bought it used, you are not their customer anyway.

No one is jumping into producing the hardcore off road vehicles that utilize old tech. There is no money in it. Best to get a buggy for something like that.

In the US, the Wranglers closest competitor (the FJ) is leaving the market. I am not saying the FJ is a Jeep, but it really is the closest thing we have. No one else wants to make one. They want to sell as many units as they can, that's it. It really is that simple. It's capitalism at its finest.
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:04 PM   #14
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IFS will save the wrangler from certain death...
Sold a record number of Wranglers in May. Solid axles. If anything IFS and the "softening" of the Wrangler will kill it.
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:36 PM   #15
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Sold a record number of Wranglers in May. Solid axles. If anything IFS and the "softening" of the Wrangler will kill it.
I have to disagree. Look what wrangler sold the most, the 4 door now add ifs and 25mpg and soften the exterior and it will sell even more. You have to accept that there are more soccer moms and dads than hard core off roaders. The good thing is there will be an endless supply of JK/JKU's being they sold so many.
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Old 07-11-2014, 07:56 PM   #16
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:06 PM   #17
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I have to disagree. Look what wrangler sold the most, the 4 door now add ifs and 25mpg and soften the exterior and it will sell even more. You have to accept that there are more soccer moms and dads than hard core off roaders. The good thing is there will be an endless supply of JK/JKU's being they sold so many.
Well I agree to disagree. Here's why, In my opinion:

The four door out selling the two door is irrelevent. A lot of people take the four door off road becuase of its stability, climbing ability, and cargo space. Adding IFS and softening the Wrangler will take away its "cool factor" Who wants an uncool unreliable (Its made by Chrysler!) crossover? There are plenty of better quality vehicles in this market. I think the ONLY reason Wranglers are selling is because there is no competition; put it on the same playing field as other crossovers/suvs and good bye record sales.

More parts for us eh woot woot!
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:16 PM   #18
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Guys, the powers that determine whether the next gen Wrangler has IFS or a number of other changes couldn't care less about a handful of off-roaders who won't buy it if these changes means increased sales to the general public. Most Wranglers spend 99.99% of the time being driven ON the road anyway, so why not set things up based on where it will be used most (if not all) of the time.

It is all about sales, folks.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:20 PM   #19
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You people crack me up. Running around like your hair is on fire and your ass is catching, puking blood about something that is pure conjecture at this point in time.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:28 PM   #20
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I shouldn't be mentioning this, but keeping a good thing to myself...

If you don't like the 2017, look for a low mileage older stock Jeep which was only taken to the Mall on Sundays.

Problem solved.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:28 PM   #21
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Guys, the powers that determine whether the next gen Wrangler has IFS or a number of other changes couldn't care less about a handful of off-roaders who won't buy it if these changes means increased sales to the general public. Most Wranglers spend 99.99% of the time being driven ON the road anyway, so why not set things up based on where it will be used most (if not all) of the time.

It is all about sales, folks.
True it is all about the sales. But the point I am trying to make, again this is just my opinion, is that "these changes" will not increase sales. Clearly on road handling isn't what makes Wranglers sell. I believe they sell because it is the only 4x4 convertable with an iconic design that is sold in North America. Any changes to that winning formula that seperates the Wrangler from the competition and consumers will look else where.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:30 PM   #22
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You people crack me up. Running around like your hair is on fire and your ass is catching, puking blood about something that is pure conjecture at this point in time.
hehe I think replacing soo many CV joints on my old Bronco II has just made me hate IFS with a passion.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:34 PM   #23
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hehe I think replacing soo many CV joints on my old Bronco II has just made me hate IFS with a passion.
I hear ya, I have CV's in my Dakota and Libby. Old 94 Wrangler has been rock solid.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:52 PM   #24
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It might be wise to wait and see what actually hits the showroom floor and see what it looks like and how it performs both on and off road before carping and bad mouthing you haven't seen or driven then if you don't like it don't buy it.
I'm sure that Chrysler will still sell all thy can build regardless of design change's
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Old 07-11-2014, 11:16 PM   #25
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I'm willing to bet that most of us aren't the hardcore, rock crawling SOB's we think we are and a Jeep with IFS would suit 90% of us just fine. Maybe they do screw the pooch and build a car instead of a Jeep but haven't we been here before...many times.

CJ-7? That things too long to be a real off road machine.

Wrangler? Who came up with that stupid name and square head lights, are you kidding me?

TJ? What's that stand for? Tinkerbelle? Coil springs belong on a sports car, not a Jeep.

Four doors? Well that thing is too long to be a real off road machine. Too fancy inside too. Looks like a Hummer.

All together now..."I'll never have one of those [insert previous model Jeep here] in my garage."

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hehe I think replacing soo many CV joints on my old Bronco II has just made me hate IFS with a passion.
As we all sleeve and weld C-gussets to our Dana 44's and change our ball joints out so our wheels don't fall off.
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Old 07-12-2014, 01:32 AM   #26
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I understand what IFS is. Most modern cars have it. But, can someone explain why a Jeep with IFS would be less offroad capable than one without?

One thing I briefly read is that IFS can't droop as low as non-IFS suspension (like the Jeeps). From my understanding, this is because the CV joint operating angle is limited. Am I right?
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Old 07-12-2014, 05:47 AM   #27
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A Wrangler with IFS?

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I understand what IFS is. Most modern cars have it. But, can someone explain why a Jeep with IFS would be less offroad capable than one without?
Well it wouldn't if the IFS is designed and implemented properly!
It is all a matter of articulation - the ability of the wheels to move up and down - and ground clearance, particularly under 'jounce'.

The issue with articulation is related to constant velocity joints - the joints that allow torque to go round corners - if the angles between the two joined parts get too extreme they heat-up, wear and quickly fail. To get the overall wheel travel up but keep the angles reasonable requires long travel arms that are hard to fit in with everything else going on.

The ground clearance issue comes from the ability of the wheels on either side coming up leaving the underside to bottom out. With a solid axle the differential case remains fixed between the wheels so overall radius of wheel plus tire determines the clearance to it - and if one side lifts the case goes up too; not so with IFS. The Humvee has IFS and it can bottom out under circumstances where a Landrover Defender can plough on through (seen it myself).

Jeep long ago had a research project called "Lil' Blue" that solved many of the above issues in practical mechanical manner. Add to that the increasing use of electronics (witness ESC) and air suspension (Discovery and Range Rover) and it is obvious a capable IFS is now a serious possibility; indeed the top Paris-Dakar Raid contenders are (probably) all now IFS.

For the next Wrangler, IF Jeep can keep the contents of the engine bay narrow (or push the engine up and back a bit) I would not be surprised that a larger wheel/tire combination will be used as standard. This equates to free ground clearance and is a partial substitute for any loss of articulation (but see above). It also helps keeps the centre of gravity lower and that improves safety and handling at road speeds.

E&OE. Someone from inside the industry please correct my nomenclature.
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Old 07-12-2014, 06:51 AM   #28
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I couldn't believe jeep put four doors on the wrangler. Might as well put 'Suburban' badge on it. I understand their reason for it as well as pruducing a two wheel drive option. To the corporation ONLY new vehicle customers matter. Us in the secondary market, the ones who actually take jeeps out and use them as they are intended, are irrelevant to the corporation. True, we give and keep the brand momentum and loyalty, but the corporation doesn't make money off used car purchases. The risk they run is diluting the wrangler so much in an effort for even broader appeal, consumers may opt for other semi-competitors. Why not an f-150 with 4wd? And you get a usable bed that actually holds stuff? Tundra? That's an option too. Bottom line, you try too much to appeal to too many people you end up with a product no one is loyal too. By the way, does Harley Davidson feel the need to build crotch rockets?
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Old 07-12-2014, 08:08 AM   #29
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Ok I will boycott 2017 wrangler. My first problem will be coming up with something to replace my 2006 WK Hemi. The new Cherokee does not trip my trigger.

OP please post a picture of the 2017 Wrangler so I know what the boycott is all about.
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Old 07-12-2014, 08:25 AM   #30
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I ran a full size Bronco for years with IFS and never had an issue.
If the new Wrangler has IFS, it will not make me not want to buy it.

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