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Old 01-20-2011, 01:18 AM   #1
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How to go down a loose steep hill?

Lots of hills in my desert, and i tried going down one of them the other day, i put the jeep in four low, but was still goind down way to fast, so i hit the breaks to slow my self down, which was the wrong move sense that almost made me stall the jeep. What i think happened was that the tires were crawling down the hill, but the hill was making the jeep slide down. So my question is for those of you who drove down the lions back in moab, is the jeep in 4 low? or are you hitting the brakes? This video for instance, how fast is he generally going?

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Old 01-20-2011, 05:22 AM   #2
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I use 4-lo - first gear - and feather the brake.

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Old 01-20-2011, 08:30 AM   #3
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Me too, I've got the Rubi xfer case so using 1st gear, when it's REAL steep-

I adjust between the "light" brake tap and the e-brake which also works very well in snow !!

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Old 01-20-2011, 12:56 PM   #4
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x3. 4lo 1st gear, brakes as needed. There is also the nifty little Moab trick of turning on the AC for a little extra engine braking.

Of course that only works if you have traction. Going down a loose steep hill is a different game.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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skinny pedal running start.... dont even need to touch the loose stuff.

really though brakes can get u in some nasty situations FAST so be smart with them
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jebby
skinny pedal running start.... dont even need to touch the loose stuff.

really though brakes can get u in some nasty situations FAST so be smart with them
Almost what I like, I start with skinny pedal hard then turn real quick and do barrel rolls all the way down... hehe
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:50 PM   #7
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oh yeah, never even let up off the brake. It is really important when going down hills like that to give your brakes a chance to cool in-between runs to. Slowly creaping down hills is about as close as our brakes will get to Nascar conditions Personally I would be in nuetral and rely on the brake then let out the clutch to engine brake in first to slow it only if need be. W/the automatic I would keep it in 4L and Low1 and ride the brake.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:10 PM   #8
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Maybe it's cause I'm from the coast..and we don't have hills..much less anything near that...but can I just say that just watching that scares the mess outa me! major props to ya'll that do this!!
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sevenservices View Post
Personally I would be in nuetral and rely on the brake then let out the clutch to engine brake in first to slow it only if need be. W/the automatic I would keep it in 4L and Low1 and ride the brake.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that if you rode the brake down the hill in that video, you'd be going way too fast and would quickly lose control.

I can't imagine the brakes would be able to keep the vehicle at a controlled slow pace. I would think in a situation like that, engine braking is absolutely critical.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:12 PM   #10
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^ X2 - never go down a hill in neutral and ride your brakes (especially a hill like that). 4 lo in 1st gear will crawl down a steep hill. If you start sliding faster than the wheels are turning, feather the brakes as others have said. Most important is, know the hill, walk it and pick your line going down. If you start going down faster than you are comfortable with, don't panic. STEER STRAIGHT down the line you chose. Don't worry about banging the undercarriage, STEER STRAIGHT. When you reach the bottom take a deep breath.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:17 PM   #11
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^ X2 - never go down a hill in neutral and ride your brakes (especially a hill like that). 4 lo in 1st gear will crawl down a steep hill. If you start sliding faster than the wheels are turning, feather the brakes as others have said. Most important is, know the hill, walk it and pick your line going down. If you start going down faster than you are comfortable with, don't panic. STEER STRAIGHT down the line you chose. Don't worry about banging the undercarriage, STEER STRAIGHT. When you reach the bottom take a deep breath.
^^ This ^^
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:27 PM   #12
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I have done Lion's back years ago before they closed it down. 4 wheel low in first gear and feather the brakes as needed. Good tires is the key to not slipping too much.

There was a post not long ago about which is better an auto or a manual tranny. Imagine that you were half way up that drive and had to stop because there was a line of vehicles in front of you. Would you want an auto or a manual tranny? Just a thought.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:53 PM   #13
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Imagine that you were half way up that drive and had to stop because there was a line of vehicles in front of you. Would you want an auto or a manual tranny? Just a thought.
Good question. I have a 6spd manual and my understanding is that I can start the Jeep in first gear in 4lo without pressing the clutch. Once the engine starts the vehicle will start moving forward.

So with a manual tranny would the right technique be to turn off the engine without pressing the clutch if you need to stop halfway up a steep incline?
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:07 AM   #14
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Good question. I have a 6spd manual and my understanding is that I can start the Jeep in first gear in 4lo without pressing the clutch. Once the engine starts the vehicle will start moving forward.

So with a manual tranny would the right technique be to turn off the engine without pressing the clutch if you need to stop halfway up a steep incline?
I've been 4 wheeling over 30 years in 3 different Jeeps, and while I've never been to Moab, it seems like an unsafe practice following another vehicle up an incline like that. I wouldn't attempt it until all was clear on top and on bottom. Spotters should make sure no vehicle attemps a climb or descent when another vehicle is traversing the hill. One reason is I wouldn't want to stop unnecessarily on that hill, another is should a vehicle make a mistake he would take other vehicles out along with him. Just my 2 cents. Does Moab really get that zooed out that people can't wait their turn?

To answer the question, If I had to stop on a steep hill I would leave the engine running, keep it in first, and clutch in when I braked to a stop, put it in neutral, and apply the parking/hand brake when I was stopped. The reason I would keep the engine running until I came to a complete stop is If I started slipping (brakes aren't holding on the steep hill) I could quickly clutch out and proceed down the hill. The hand brake also helps when you take off back up the hill when you have a manual transmission.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:40 AM   #15
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even though that hill is closed i am sure others still tried to get up and down from there i know i would
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:44 PM   #16
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It would take a week to pull the seat from my arse if I was even a passenger in that! Kudos to those with titanium covered brass!
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by doclouie View Post
I have done Lion's back years ago before they closed it down. 4 wheel low in first gear and feather the brakes as needed. Good tires is the key to not slipping too much.

There was a post not long ago about which is better an auto or a manual tranny. Imagine that you were half way up that drive and had to stop because there was a line of vehicles in front of you. Would you want an auto or a manual tranny? Just a thought.
I haven't been to Moab yet but in my experience wheeling so far I've never had any trouble starting or stopping on any incline with my manual when in 4lo. All I have to do it hold the brake and start to release the clutch. When I feel the clutch start to load I release the brake and finish releasing the clutch. No rollback whatsoever, and the whole process takes maybe a second or two at the most so there's no more (or maybe even less) wear on the clutch than a normal 2hi takeoff on the street. YMMV.


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It would take a week to pull the seat from my arse if I was even a passenger in that! Kudos to those with titanium covered brass!
It makes me very sad that I won't get the oppertunity to run it. <cry>
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:20 PM   #18
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Moab hills are very unique: "slickrock" isn't slick at all, so you get a ton of traction (I believe it was named when horses on metal shoes would slide on it). You can climb or descend things there that would be more, um, problematic elsewhere. Way, way, different than the greasy slopes in the Northwest for example.

Like Pokey says, stay straight. If the back end wants to go faster than the front end, do the counter-intuitive thing, and hit the gas, not the brakes. Sideways on a steep hill is not the best situation to be in.

Red Cone Hill in Colorado:
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:23 PM   #19
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The problem for me is when im going down the hill in 4lo, i do feather the brakes but i slow down to much to where the jeep will almost stall (at the point i should of let off the brakes) but i hit the clutch in and that was the wrong thing to do lol!
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:33 PM   #20
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interesting points guys. Obviously, I've never been on a hill like that! Lots to learn!
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:22 PM   #21
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this video is sick!! and reading all the info made me learn somethin new thanks guys
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:27 PM   #22
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The problem for me is when im going down the hill in 4lo, i do feather the brakes but i slow down to much to where the jeep will almost stall (at the point i should of let off the brakes) but i hit the clutch in and that was the wrong thing to do lol!
Your Jeep should be able to go really, really slowly without stalling. So if you're below that speed, it sounds like you may need to just let it go a bit. Be willing to let it get -just a tiny bit- out of control. But hey, it's a hell of a lot easier to restart your Jeep when it's pointed down!

And I bet it was a nice surprise when you hit that clutch. That's a bit like newbies on a motorcycle: when they panic, they pull back on the handle, and of course, just give the bike a ton of throttle. You see that in resort towns on scooters all the time. It's funny.

Lots of Jeep drivers hit the clutch when they shouldn't. It's a natural, instinctive response: when you want to stop, you press in the clutch. We do it in panic stops on the road without thinking about it. Unfortunately, we also do it on hills.

We used to try and train people in Jeep runs to never use the clutch. Even to stop, we almost wanted them to bump the guy in front. I thought that was a bit overkill, personally, but I suppose ti broke the habits.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:56 AM   #23
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"And I bet it was a nice surprise when you hit that clutch. That's a bit like newbies on a motorcycle: when they panic, they pull back on the handle, and of course, just give the bike a ton of throttle. You see that in resort towns on scooters all the time. It's funny."

I rode for 3 years before i sold it to get my jeep, i find riding so much easier than off roading lol, on i bike i was able to lean it down to where i only had about an 8th of in inch left on the tire. With this jeep im scared to lean it over 20 degrees i always feel that it is getting light on top, and i cant tell when i get one of the wheels off the ground. other than going up and down hills, i like wheelin my self through trenches and gruits.. I got kinda scared today that i was going to flop it, but i think i was only at about 20 degrees, it just felt kinda light because the trench was twisted. I was probably being a pansy, sense i didnt have anyone out spotting me. I got out a few times to look at my jeep and see what to do. Sense i dont have lockers i tried gunning it up a small curb in the trench, but my right front tire lost traction once i punched it. I decided to reposition and my rear tire fell down the trench (only about 8 inches down) than i just crawled out. feeling like im going to flop is scary, any links on how sideways this jeep can go?
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:15 AM   #24
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feeling like im going to flop is scary, any links on how sideways this jeep can go?
I've never seen a definitive number for how far you can go on a side hill. It depends on the surface, the vehicle, the day (rainy?), and how clean you want to keep your underwear.

Also depends, I suppose, on the consequences.

I've backed up out of a long shelf road because I was too scared to go over some off camber rocks. Probably would have been fine, but in Colorado the drops can be very, very far. If the only worry was tipping over, I might have gone for it.

You are doing the exact right thing though. You're getting your Jeep out, and driving it.

I'm the opposite of you: I'm newer to motorcycles, so I get nervous about leaning them down too far. I -know- I can, I just get scared.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:39 AM   #25
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The best cure for off-road safety in avoiding rollovers is-

EXPERIENCE and you get that with speed control/ LOGIC-TRAINING and somewhat careful cargo securing--and did I say training

A minor,conversational/picture proof/indication of your approaching a danger angle is the imclinometer-

You can't just slap one on and DEPEND onit, there are tests for determining your jeeps breakover angle (roll), but that will change with every vehicle load you start with--ie: No. of passengers/load distribution/load on top/ruts/rocks/flat tires---these all add to the final point I mentioned earlier--experience, the only EASY WAY to avoid rollovers is--stay flat !!



I've had my JKU at over 40║ and by being careful-slow-nothing on top-it was fairly safe

EXPERIENCE !!

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Old 01-24-2011, 11:47 AM   #26
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Pepsi, you're in the desert like me, and those trenches/rain ruts going down and cutting into steep hills are the scary things and the reason you want to get out of the jeep before you go down and visualize the best route to take. Usually you can have the wheels straddle the rut, sometimes it's best to take one side or the other. Like we said, steer as straight as possible, resist the temptation to use the clutch, and dont worry about banging the underside. Your jeep is like a mule in 4lo, 1st gear. Some hills you can go down in 4lo, 2nd gear. Concentrate on steering more than the pedals going down hills. You'll get the hang of it.
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:40 PM   #27
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This wasnt to bad and i didnt feel like i was going to tip over. Looking at the second picture i calculated the angel to be only 15* if i stand corrected.



And this JK at 40degrees! yikes
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:14 PM   #28
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^ yeah, that isn't near tipping angle, but it is one of those ruts you don't want to straddle. Taking one side or the other would have been preferable
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:17 PM   #29
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^ yeah, that isn't near tipping angle, but it is one of those ruts you don't want to straddle. Taking one side or the other would have been preferable
even on the ruts i can straddle i rather take the hard way sometimes lol
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:49 PM   #30
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When going down a hill do not do as "cory" or you might have that hill named after you to


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