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Old 12-28-2011, 09:56 PM   #1
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Hp30 or dana 44 swap for front.

The 8.8 is well established as the best and most cost effective rear swap for larger than 33 inch tires. What swap do you all suggest for 35-37 inch tires. D44, hp30, or something else? This is an open conversation so just throw whatever you have in.

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Old 12-28-2011, 10:09 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenSahara00
The 8.8 is well established as the best and most cost effective rear swap for larger than 33 inch tires. What swap do you all suggest for 35-37 inch tires. D44, hp30, or something else? This is an open conversation so just throw whatever you have in.
For cost, strength, ease of install and better clearance.

The HP30 beats the D44 (rubi) all day.

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Old 12-28-2011, 11:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by IndyJeepMan

For cost, strength, ease of install and better clearance.

The HP30 beats the D44 (rubi) all day.
I'm talking non rubi d44.

See I was talking with a guy I met the other day. He asked me what I planned for axles. And I told him 8.8 and hp30 and 35/37s. He then told me he had a hp30 with chromys and upgraded wheel hubs and stuff and he busted it the first time out. I don't know what his rig was on then but he runs like 40s on a stretched Tj and has den doing it for a while. So I figure he may have a little more experience than me building these. He has a (non rubi I believe) d44 up front. I have heard that the rubi d44 isn't much stronger than a d30. Which is why I thought the hp30 was the better option. But I guess If I want the best I would do the swap to a good d44?
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:43 AM   #4
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Well I do believe (I could be wrong) that the rubi 44 uses the same shafts and u joints as the 30. The ring and pinion is bigger. I think the steering knuckles are different.

I have read several great threads on this. I will post a link

EDIT: sorry its early and my reading comp. skills are low. I see where you were talking about a non-rubi 44. The threads are still very helpful when it comes to the hpd30. There are very many people that swap these in tj's. They claim the r/p is stronger because of the positioning of the pinion. They also like the swap because of the better driveline angles and yoke ground clearance. The general consensus is do not run over 35 inch tire if you are doing hard wheeling. I know there are hundreds of examples of it surviving with 37's but it is not recommended. Sometimes it is just hard to sort through the internet garbage and the truth.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...574&highlight=
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=931621
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:26 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by tjrhd
Well I do believe (I could be wrong) that the rubi 44 uses the same shafts and u joints as the 30. The ring and pinion is bigger. I think the steering knuckles are different.

I have read several great threads on this. I will post a link

EDIT: sorry its early and my reading comp. skills are low. I see where you were talking about a non-rubi 44. The threads are still very helpful when it comes to the hpd30. There are very many people that swap these in tj's. They claim the r/p is stronger because of the positioning of the pinion. They also like the swap because of the better driveline angles and yoke ground clearance. The general consensus is do not run over 35 inch tire if you are doing hard wheeling. I know there are hundreds of examples of it surviving with 37's but it is not recommended. Sometimes it is just hard to sort through the internet garbage and the truth.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...574&highlight=
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=931621
They are. Outside the actually diff the rubi 44 is the same as a 30. But yeah I know all those points about the hp30. I just want to see some other view points incase my mind missed something. Plus now there will be a nice thread about this. Haha. If I truly want to make a locked rig on 37s I should look into a d44front/8.8 rear setup. Now to make sure that is gona be strong enough. Hahaha. I have a few years to plan it out perfect.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:53 AM   #6
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I'm certainly no expert, but this is my take: an HP D30 is fairly close to a TJ D44. If you're fine with gearing only as low as 4.88, then the HP D30 may be fine for 37s locked, but I'd guess it may be close to it's limit. That said, people like Imped and a few I wheel with have HP D30s and are very happy with them even after beating them hard, however they're only on 35s. If you're serious about 37s you may need something a bit bigger. Originally I was going to run one myself, but I've got the 42RLE tranny in my '04 which means I'm looking at gearing lower than 4.88; because of this, I'll be looking for something other than an HP D30.

If you decide you want more strength, the JK HP D44 seems to be a very good axle. Blaine from Black Magic Brakes and Savvy is/has building/built one, and I believe he was very impressed with it's strength. JeepForum is down right now otherwise I would link the thread, but once it's back up I'll try and remember to post it over here. When I get around to upgrading my front axle, I believe I may try and find one to build up. Whether it's more up to the task of 37s or not I'm not 100% sure as its been a while since I've read that thread.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:56 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by geiman
I'm certainly no expert, but this is my take: an HP D30 is fairly close to a TJ D44. If you're fine with gearing only as low as 4.88, then the HP D30 may be fine for 37s locked, but I'd guess it may be close to it's limit. That said, people like Imped and a few I wheel with have HP D30s and are very happy with them even after beating them hard, however they're only on 35s. If you're serious about 37s you may need something a bit bigger. Originally I was going to run one myself, but I've got the 42RLE tranny in my '04 which means I'm looking at gearing lower than 4.88; because of this, I'll be looking for something other than an HP D30.

If you decide you want more strength, the JK HP D44 seems to be a very good axle. Blaine from Black Magic Brakes and Savvy is/has building/built one, and I believe he was very impressed with it's strength. JeepForum is down right now otherwise I would link the thread, but once it's back up I'll try and remember to post it over here. When I get around to upgrading my front axle, I believe I may try and find one to build up. Whether it's more up to the task of 37s or not I'm not 100% sure as its been a while since I've read that thread.
Thanks for the input. I do think I actually saw that at one point but they all kinda blend together sometimes hahaha. Yeah that's the issue. Making sure it will not fail for 37s. Well see what can be dug up.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:23 AM   #8
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Didn't read all the posts but I just got a rubi d44. Haven't tried it out but considering that the weak link on a HP30 is the ring gear, and the rubi d44 has a 1.2" bigger ring gear. This makes is a much stronger axle. I wouldn't run 37's on my setup. 36's do the job just fine(actually measure out to 35.5"). Yes, rubi d44 and HP30 have the same outers and shit. That doesn't mean that that extra size in the ring gear don't do shit. Especially my only doubts about the HP30 where on the ring gear. I talked to a few offroad shops and local wheelers, and ended up with the rubicon d44. Even though it cost me a few extra hundred, so far it seems to be well worth it. I have also seen HP30's fail in situations where they shouldn't have. To people wanting to argue, I don't. I really could care less about how you have yet to break your hp30, and how much abuse it has been through. I wheel my shit hard, and having inferior parts is a no-no around here.

If you are looking to run 37s I would just through some RCVs in my front d44 and a Super 88 in the rear and beat it. I don't think you would have any problems.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:28 AM   #9
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Didn't read all the posts but I just got a rubi d44. Haven't tried it out but considering that the weak link on a HP30 is the ring gear, and the rubi d44 has a 1.2" bigger ring gear. This makes is a much stronger axle. I wouldn't run 37's on my setup. 36's do the job just fine(actually measure out to 35.5"). Yes, rubi d44 and HP30 have the same outers and shit. That doesn't mean that that extra size in the ring gear don't do shit. Especially my only doubts about the HP30 where on the ring gear. I talked to a few offroad shops and local wheelers, and ended up with the rubicon d44. Even though it cost me a few extra hundred, so far it seems to be well worth it. I have also seen HP30's fail in situations where they shouldn't have. To people wanting to argue, I don't. I really could care less about how you have yet to break your hp30, and how much abuse it has been through. I wheel my shit hard, and having inferior parts is a no-no around here.
Thanks man. Yes I pretty much want no doubt in my mind that I can rip on my TJ as hard as I want and my parts will stand up to it. So I'm gona build it good. ergo the axle information search. I hear ya on the r/p argument. Supposedly the outers of the d44 or hp30 can't handle the 37s, or so thats the arguement. no doubt that the r/p is gona be stronger. Is it gona be better to try and upgrade the outers on a rubi d44 or just get one out of another vehicle and do some welding for it? Especially with locked 37s I can see it getting shady. Then again the 4.0 is only gona put out so much into the axles even with 4.88 gearing, will There even be enough power to worry about breaking? All stuff I need to know.

I enjoy your build, and you will def have to comment again once you get it all up and wheel it a few times let me know how you like it.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:31 AM   #10
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I keep going back and forth on this issue myself. I have ordered and stopped order several times to my gear guy. I keep going back to the issue of 37's, what I often forget when I want 37's is at that point I am going to really have to work on my wheelbase also. It is not just about changing the axles and throwing some 37's on there. If I am truly trying to retain my stock gas tank and such, 35's are probably best for me without serious mods to increase wheelbase.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:32 AM   #11
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I'll upload some videos of my heep gettin beat on once I get it back together. Like I previously edited into my last post, some RCV shafts in the front would take out most of my fear of running 37's. I could have run a ford d44 or something like that but it would have to have been narrowed and have all of the brackets put on.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:33 AM   #12
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Here is the link I was referring to:

Sleeving a JK Dana 44 Rubi front axle - JeepForum.com

It might be more work than you are willing (or capable of) to do, but it's something I'm interested in doing at somepoint in the future. He's building this for someone wanting to run 37s (probably in JV) so it should be up to whatever you can throw at it if built correctly.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:36 AM   #13
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^^^ Geiman that jeep haunts me and the obsession over it is going to drive me into the poor house!!!
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:39 AM   #14
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^^^ Geiman that jeep haunts me and the obsession over it is going to drive me into the poor house!!!
I know, reading any of his build threads makes me want to sell a kidney.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:42 AM   #15
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at this point the final build is 6-8 years away so, safe to say I have some planning time. Ill def take a look at the link when I get home, thanks geiman. I took a glance and I think I remember it, and after your comments I'm almost afraid

nasty, sounds good man. Yeah I know being narrowed would suck but, If I decide to trailer it then I would prob do full width swaps front and rear just for the heck of it well see
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:45 AM   #16
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I know, reading any of his build threads makes me want to sell a kidney.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:48 AM   #17
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at this point the final build is 6-8 years away so, safe to say I have some planning time. Ill def take a look at the link when I get home, thanks geiman. I took a glance and I think I remember it, and after your comments I'm almost afraid

nasty, sounds good man. Yeah I know being narrowed would suck but, If I decide to trailer it then I would prob do full width swaps front and rear just for the heck of it well see
6-8 years technology will be totally different. I really considered running prorock 60's F+R but the price was too much(same amount I paid for both my axles for just the front). Also, full width axles are too wide for the trails around here. I hit enough trees as it is.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:53 AM   #18
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It seems like the JK 44's are getting to be a popular tj swap.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:57 AM   #19
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6-8 years technology will be totally different. I really considered running prorock 60's F+R but the price was too much(same amount I paid for both my axles for just the front). Also, full width axles are too wide for the trails around here. I hit enough trees as it is.
Haha I agree. I prob won't be doing any trails around where I am though if I bother with a trailer rig. And yeah I know tech will be different but the old axles that work with 37s now will still work then they will just be cheaper (hopefully)


As for the jk d44s. Are they any easier to swap than another d44 other than the fact that another d44 would have to be cut down?
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:02 AM   #20
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As for the jk d44s. Are they any easier to swap than another d44 other than the fact that another d44 would have to be cut down?
If I was building for 37s I wouldn't be too worried about the easiness of the swap; I'd be more concerned with building whatever axle you're using correctly so that it doesn't let you down.

That said, it's hard to tell what would be easy for you without knowing what your fabrication skills are, or what they will be when you actually go to do the swap. Either is going to require a fair bit of work.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:02 AM   #21
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A very popular D44 that is stronger then a rubi 44 is the Waggy 44.

TNT also makes a full truss and mount brackets similar to my Artec in design. Only problem is its low pinion.

I honestly believe a HP30 that was trussed, sleeved, c gusseted, rcv's or 300M style shafts with some billet super strong u joints and heavy duty ball joints would do pretty well against a 37" tire.

Have I run that, no. But I don't see where it couldnt. But then comes the argument for that money you could get something stronger... The choice is yours. For the money and strength and simplicity its HP30.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:07 AM   #22
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I am still curious to see the reviews of these new ball joints. Everything I have read so far is that the best joints are spicer ball joints. I know there are a few out now that claim to be really strong but there isnt much info out there yet.. I think one of them is synergy?
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:14 AM   #23
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A very popular D44 that is stronger then a rubi 44 is the Waggy 44.

TNT also makes a full truss and mount brackets similar to my Artec in design. Only problem is its low pinion.

I honestly believe a HP30 that was trussed, sleeved, c gusseted, rcv's or 300M style shafts with some billet super strong u joints and heavy duty ball joints would do pretty well against a 37" tire.

Have I run that, no. But I don't see where it couldnt. But then comes the argument for that money you could get something stronger... The choice is yours. For the money and strength and simplicity its HP30.
HP30 is a good axle and has its place. I was actually very close to buying one but went with the rubi44 instead. My thinking: I would rather break a U-joint/shaft then my ring and pinion. At my current set up I have room to break, and room to upgrade. If I have problems with chromoly shafts and 760x u-joints, I can upgrade to RCVs. Problems with the axle flexing? I can add a truss and gusset all other weak spots. I agree, for the money the HP30 is the way to go. I just like having the peace of mind that I wont kill and R&P out in the woods.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:04 AM   #24
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Ring and pinions are usually the strongest part of any axle. I wouldnt.buy an axle for the ring and pinion size. The shaft size, spline, and tube diameter are far more important things, same with outer equipment.

About the only reason id go with a rubi 44 over a HP30 is if I needed to go lower than a 4.88 gear. If not, the extra money isnt really worth it. Especially if youre going to an aftermarker ring and pinion anyways.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:12 AM   #25
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Ring and pinions are usually the strongest part of any axle. I wouldnt.buy an axle for the ring and pinion size. The shaft size, spline, and tube diameter are far more important things, same with outer equipment.

About the only reason id go with a rubi 44 over a HP30 is if I needed to go lower than a 4.88 gear. If not, the extra money isnt really worth it. Especially if youre going to an aftermarker ring and pinion anyways.
I've seen HP30s fail where they shouldn't have. I'll run what I got for my reasons and you run what you got for your reasons. No such thing as a one size fits all. Also because of the reverse cut gears the hp30 may be 20% stronger going forward, but reverse it is 20% weaker. Pulling stuck people out or backing out of a hairy spot could be the demise of your ring and pinion. Like I said I don't want to turn this into an argument, I just feel as if there is better options to a hp30 that are commonly overlooked. That doesn't mean I think the hp30 is a piece of shit, because I don't. I almost got one and I probably would have had I not seen one explode on a trip to the dump.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:33 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by geiman

If I was building for 37s I wouldn't be too worried about the easiness of the swap; I'd be more concerned with building whatever axle you're using correctly so that it doesn't let you down.

That said, it's hard to tell what would be easy for you without knowing what your fabrication skills are, or what they will be when you actually go to do the swap. Either is going to require a fair bit of work.
I know. I think your missing the point of the question man. Haha. Do you have an answer or not? I was wondering how much more or less there is to change or add. Obviously the bracketed is different on both. Both need to be strengthened and reinforced some what. New shafts. So you need to change or reinforce the tubes on one more than the other ? What about brakes? Can the jk brakes be used while a set of brakes from a ford cannot? Are the wheel bearing the same? Obviously the bolt pattern for the wheels is different for both. That kind of stuff.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:36 AM   #27
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Good points guys and good information. U attempted to get front and rear d44s when my buddy totaled his waggy (Lexus pulled out in front of him) but then they didn't total it and hes fixing. Too bad.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:40 AM   #28
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I know. I think your missing the point of the question man. Haha. Do you have an answer or not? I was wondering how much more or less there is to change or add. Obviously the bracketed is different on both. Both need to be strengthened and reinforced some what. New shafts. So you need to change or reinforce the tubes on one more than the other ? What about brakes? Can the jk brakes be used while a set of brakes from a ford cannot? Are the wheel bearing the same? Obviously the bolt pattern for the wheels is different for both. That kind of stuff.
Lol, I've already linked you a thread which goes over the entire build of the JK 44, all of your answers are there.

As far as using another 44 from something like a ford or waggy, I have no idea.

Good luck with your build, you're going to need it.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman

Lol, I've already linked you a thread which goes over the entire build of the JK 44, all of your answers are there.

As far as using another 44 from something like a ford or waggy, I have no idea.

Good luck with your build, you're going to need it.
Yeah you linked me to a jk d44 and I asked about the difference between that and another type of d44. I had already looked and the thread you linked, and plan to read it more thoroughly when I get time to sit down. Don't get your panties all up in a bunch.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenSahara00 View Post
Yeah you linked me to a jk d44 and I asked about the difference between that and another type of d44. I had already looked and the thread you linked, and plan to read it more thoroughly when I get time to sit down. Don't get your panties all up in a bunch.
Lol, like I said; good luck, you're definitely going to need it.

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