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Old 03-29-2008, 09:34 PM   #1
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just came back from the dealer...

wow, and that went a bit not like i expected.

i really thought i was gonna make a deal today. the prospect was a 2002 wrangler x, 65k miles, average condition, in denver area. asking price was 10,995, i told the dealer that i can give him 9500 cash, out the door, or 4k down and finance the rest through a credit union. he goes to me, im not budging a dime from the asking price, im not gonna lose money on it (although he was pleasant about it). so i go to him, "i know you couldnt have paid more than 8k for the car"...he got it at an auction for christs sake, 65k, needs a bit of work (battery, front brakes, front shocks, spark plugs, differential and transfer case maintenance). then he gives me some crap about how he didnt buy the car, his supplier did and he knows he paid more than 9500.

so i say, "youve had the car for what, 3 months at least, on the lot?" and he corrects me and says its actually 6 months. and i ask, "and you dont want to get rid of it by now?" and he says that not if its bellow his asking price.

that kinda blew my mind. 6 months on the lot and he doesnt want to move the car. not even negotiate. granted 9500 was my starting point, but to not even try to negotiate? weird. hes gotta be losing money by keeping that thing there. even the opportunity cost of it. this was the kicker though, he says to me "you dont understand the market for wranglers out here." im in colorado. LOL yes, theres a wrangler passing by every 3 minutes...but thats the lamest counter-argument to give when the cars been sitting on the lot for 6 months. yeah buddy...HUDGE demand for this car.

oh well...the search continues.

thanks all for your help (in the TJ forum).

any leads on where i can get a good deal besides autotrader? ive been checking craigslist, but im a bit leery of buying from a private seller. no idea what youre getting into, you know? i just want a good car, 2000-2004, around $10k, less than 70k miles. am i asking too much?

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Old 03-29-2008, 09:56 PM   #2
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:04 PM   #3
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that sucks. i've worked for dealers, and used car dealers, let me tell ya, they either took it in on trade for half that, or bought it at auction, and you wouldn't believe what they pay at auctions, close to half that as well. you were way too generous tellin him what he paid for it. i have a customer that wanted to trade in a 2001 grand cherokee w/ 100k, to the nearest jeep dealership to buy a new one. they offered him 2,000 on trade, and had the balls to tell him they sell those like crazy.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:47 PM   #4
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I got mine off craigslist and got a great deal and a great vehicle. You just have to be willing to do research on it and ask a lot of questions and look the rig up from the wheels up.

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Old 03-29-2008, 11:11 PM   #5
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Craigslist isn't a bad place to look. If you're buying an older model out of warranty thenit isn't no diffent than buying from a crappy dealer. I bought my 2K TJ from the biggest jeep dealer in town (out of warranty of course) and still found a couple little problems they should have fixed before putting it on the lot. If the private seller is honest, he'll let you take to a shop to check it out.
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:07 AM   #6
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yeah no problem form craigslist, what do u think dealers are, they try to scam you worse than most people, i know when i went to a dealer i felt like they were just trying to make money, but when i dealt through CL, it was real people who just wanted to sell what they had, not make money off of it as their job.

guy i got mine from was really nice, and told me the reason for selling it and I got to see who was the one who did the mods , and i got to see the whole jeep up on a lift in his little mini shop/garage

dont be afraid of craigslist!
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:11 AM   #7
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yeah no problem form craigslist, what do u think dealers are, they try to scam you worse than most people, i know when i went to a dealer i felt like they were just trying to make money, but when i dealt through CL, it was real people who just wanted to sell what they had, not make money off of it as their job.

guy i got mine from was really nice, and told me the reason for selling it and I got to see who was the one who did the mods , and i got to see the whole jeep up on a lift in his little mini shop/garage

dont be afraid of craigslist!
Don't be fooled tho there are plenty of scammers who will lie about anything to scam you out of your money on CL.

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Old 03-30-2008, 01:49 AM   #8
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I think Its a good deal as is.. it probably because you were uneducated about wranglers and refered to it as a CAR!!!!hahhah
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:53 AM   #9
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We bought our last 4 off of CL, two from auto traders. You just really have to know what you are looking at, have a list and good eye balls and a feel for it.
I knew the ZJ we bought in Oct needed new rear gears and new what I could get the rear rebuilt for and what the 'street cost' of a upper middle class office worker would pay, whose definition of backlash is very different from mine, to have the same work done. There were some little things but I knew the engine, tranny and TC were good. Everything else is just part of owning a jeep
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:54 AM   #10
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Before the kid found his jeep he was looking at a colorado at the local dealer, used, pretty stripped down, dealer was an ass and got really nasty when they asked for a car facts. He walked away, it wasn't what he wanted anyway and I am so glad the boy wasn't that over anxious to get some wheels.

Kid found his through auto trader, did much better than a dealer and I am guessing he got lucky. Owned by a young lady, most miles were put on the highway as she commuted to Chicago daily. She was meticulous about taking care of it, had all the oil change and maintenance records, even had all the recommended maintence in the manual done and checked off in the book. He paid 7300, the bank appraised it at 12000. Not sure if it was an accurate appraisel but it sure made his day. He was wanting a jeep forever just never could afford one. Spent weeks searching and researching and it paid off for him.

If you have time to do the leg work, I wouldn't diss on buying direct. Dealers buy low sell high and I am sure most jeep owners don't want to be giving their jeep to a dealer for less than it's worth. If you got the time to sell or buy direct it makes sense. I think a dealer will screw you faster than a private party. Either way, the recourse is close to the same.

BTW, I had a salesman at a jeep dealer tell me they drool when someone brings a jeep in on trade in. Pretty much said they steal them and mark the crap up on them. If you want the thing bad, just tell him to call if he changes his mind and keep looking in the mean time for a better deal.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:41 AM   #11
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hmm, maybe ill look through CL a little more closely. seems like most of the wranglers on there are posted by dealers anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeghead View Post
That WAS a damn good deal
All dealers are pricks no exceptions but it sounds like you stand up for yourself well.
Mine is a 99, 75k miles on it and I think I got a great deal at 10500

Make sure in that situation you leave your number, that way when he hasnt QUITE met his quota or hes ALMOST top salesman for the month he might call you and take the offer, I still get calls from dealers 4 months after I was calling around saying "hello sir, im happy to tell you we are now able to accept the offer you made on this Jeep"

The cool thing about Jeep shopping is if you get any shit from dealers, jus tell them to eff-off theres about 20 in every dealership in the county and they know that, so YOU are in the driving seat, they arent hard to find even if your reqirements were are specific as mine were when I was shopping which was:

Green/tan Sahara, lifted, good stereo, nice tires, under 11k, under 80k miles.
I had tons matching that description although my search was country-wide and I did go 600 miles to get it lol
yeah, it wasnt a bad deal...but i guess my gut feeling was that something wasnt right. my last car when the dealer said that he cant go any lower than $x, i just said ok and signed the papers, and it was a great car! this time...not the same vibe.

they do have my contact info, but something tells me that if they havent sold it in 6 months they wont be calling me to take me up on my offer. lol i really feel bad for the person that buys it if they dont get it inspected.

so how did you buy the car 600 miles away with confidence? i mean, you obviously couldnt come and look at it and then go think things over, 600 miles isnt exactly a quick drive. i mean, what was your strategy/method? im having a hard enough time looking for one in a 20 mile radius (mostly because i have to take the bus to wherever the car is...which takes forever).
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:53 AM   #12
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I prefer buying from an idividual over a dealer anyday of the week. Price is alwyas lower that way. An individual knows what he'll take for it, and doesn't have a half-dozen dealers fees stacked on the asking price. When buying used, you stand just as big a chance at getting shafted with unforseen issues with a dealer that you can with an individual. I've had numerous Jeeps plus other vehicles as well. I bought two from a dealer, the first Jeep, and my current Jeep. The first one sold me a CJ with a clear title, only to find out a couple years too late that the title was bad. The other dealer is a sponsor of our Jeep club and I got an excellent deal, so I'm 50/50 on dealers.

I've also sold several Jeeps and trucks on CL and Ebay...
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:10 AM   #13
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Three months ago, I bought a 2000 TJ with a 4' lift and 33s with Eagle Alloy wheels for $9400. He had it listed at $10k but was willing to go for $9400. It came with a hard top and full doors.

I was visiting the dealer today and had some time to kill. Sat in some new Jeeps and it felt ooooooooooooooooooo sooooooooooo good.

I walked out of there and felt good knowing that my Jeep is paid off. I didn't mind car payments before and would love to get cars on impulse. I now loathe payments. I want to pay everything off.



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Old 03-31-2008, 01:11 AM   #14
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Three months ago, I bought a 2000 TJ with a 4' lift and 33s with Eagle Alloy wheels for $9400. He had it listed at $10k but was willing to go for $9400. It came with a hard top and full doors.

I was visiting the dealer today and had some time to kill. Sat in some new Jeeps and it felt ooooooooooooooooooo sooooooooooo good.

I walked out of there and felt good knowing that my Jeep is paid off. I didn't mind car payments before and would love to get cars on impulse. I now loathe payments. I want to pay everything off.

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Old 03-31-2008, 05:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
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hmm, maybe ill look through CL a little more closely. seems like most of the wranglers on there are posted by dealers anyway.



yeah, it wasnt a bad deal...but i guess my gut feeling was that something wasnt right. my last car when the dealer said that he cant go any lower than $x, i just said ok and signed the papers, and it was a great car! this time...not the same vibe.

they do have my contact info, but something tells me that if they havent sold it in 6 months they wont be calling me to take me up on my offer. lol i really feel bad for the person that buys it if they dont get it inspected.

so how did you buy the car 600 miles away with confidence? i mean, you obviously couldnt come and look at it and then go think things over, 600 miles isnt exactly a quick drive. i mean, what was your strategy/method? im having a hard enough time looking for one in a 20 mile radius (mostly because i have to take the bus to wherever the car is...which takes forever).
I found a 97 2.5 SE with 99,000mi in 2003 listed in Connecticut, it was 4 hours one way, they listed it for $3K, 2.5/5 speed. I managed to get there first while they were still driving back from a florida cruise. I looked it over, needed a new top and new front bumper, drivers seat was pretty worn. Paid cash and drove it 4 hours home in the middle of January with no rear window. I got the CT paper work for vehicle purchase on line, we filled it out and I drove it home with his plates and my insurance [fax machines are great for getting insurance cards], he got the BoS from the bank the following day, monday, and had it notorized and signed, I sent him his plate back. That jeep took me close to two months to stumble on to using auto trader almost twice a day then *bingo* there it was.
I have no problems with the 2.5, that engine is as close to bullet proof as they come. One Best top, warn front bumper, wet okole seat covers later and all was good. Here in Pa used jeep prices are tied to the gold market and owners seem to think they appreciate as they get older LOL..
And yes, car payment suck, my 98XJ was the last one I ever took a loan out on and I hope never to do that again. The TJ I bought with rebates I saved over the years with my computer business, just stuck every rebate into a navy federal credit union account so it was hard to get to then one day I noticed I had close to $5K in there...
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:00 PM   #16
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Speaking as someone who sell cars, hope i dont lose points with those who hate my kind, you might get the deal if you offer to finance with the dealer. Unless it is a small shady dealership they like that better cause they make money from the bank. Also if that jeep has been there for 6 months i bet they have way too much invested in the car or there is some problems with it. Just an FYI based on what i have seen.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:19 PM   #17
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I feel your pain. I can't tell you how many I drove and was about ready to throw the towel in after dealing with dealer after dealer. I drove a red Rubicon knock off a little over a month ago, had the wheels, tires, decals, etc., they had it at close to 11k for a 98 SE with all the Rubicon vanity stuff, anywhoo, had no A/C, then I found the insurance card in the manual from the previous owner, called the guy, he was pretty straight forward, and he told me that only gave him around 7k for it on trade!!

Don't give up, I searched autotrader every day and eventually found my Rubicon with only 23k miles....
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:54 PM   #18
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Speaking as someone who sell cars, hope i dont lose points with those who hate my kind, you might get the deal if you offer to finance with the dealer. Unless it is a small shady dealership they like that better cause they make money from the bank. Also if that jeep has been there for 6 months i bet they have way too much invested in the car or there is some problems with it. Just an FYI based on what i have seen.
that was a small dealer, but it seems like dealers out here finance through credit unions, at least that one did, so i dont know if they get any incentives. besides, i would have thought paying cash would have been a more appealing option for them than financing, but it had no effect.

i doubt they have much invested in the car. i know they replaced the rear window, because in the pictures i saw online it was ripped, but when i saw it in person it was fixed. it does have issues, like i mentioned. needs a new battery and sparkplugs because it tends to shut off when you stop, also needs a jump to get the initial start from cold. also needs front shocks (leaking), front brakes (nearly metal on metal), transfer case and both differentials need fluids changed and probably gaskets, but mechanically are ok. radio doesnt work. lol sounds like a nightmare of a car, but the engine runs well and tranny shifts smooth. my mechanic said that as it was when he saw it, it would cost around 1200 to fix everything (besides the radio, he didnt inspect that).

whatever...im not gonna chase after something thats obviously not the right one. when the right one comes along ill know. haha hopefully soon...im really getting excited about going out and driving on some of the trails we have out here in CO. never went offroading before.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:32 PM   #19
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I feel your pain. I can't tell you how many I drove and was about ready to throw the towel in after dealing with dealer after dealer. I drove a red Rubicon knock off a little over a month ago, had the wheels, tires, decals, etc., they had it at close to 11k for a 98 SE with all the Rubicon vanity stuff, anywhoo, had no A/C, then I found the insurance card in the manual from the previous owner, called the guy, he was pretty straight forward, and he told me that only gave him around 7k for it on trade!!

Don't give up, I searched autotrader every day and eventually found my Rubicon with only 23k miles....

thats some great investigative work right there.. My salesman actually said they barely got any profit for my jeep. 17.2k OTD for a 05 x with hard top and 37k miles.

I guess its an ok price with tax and crap, but with interest for 5 years I could get a rubi. This is my first financing on anything and I am 28. and always had good credit. I felt if I buy a jeep with tons of miles it would be abused. and it would be an older model with kinks.

the sales guy actually told me his boss called him and somene offered 18k cash. and I was lucky I bought it. right after I signed the papers. O and this suposibly guy who wants to buy it never seen the jeep. If he told be that before I signed I would have walked out.. Assholes... Say whatever it takes, lie to get a deal.

The worse part was sitting with the finance MGr. trying to sell me extra warranty and a cheapie alarm. when I told him no in the beginning. Factory warranty is 70, and 5 years.. Plus I knoe I am going to Lift it and such anyway.. bad experience. I never had problems, buying cars for cash from a private seller. its so simple. They want to sell, quickly and I want to buy quickly.

not all but most salesmen are scum. I have a brother in law that is one. nice guy in person. buy I would not buy a car from him without knowing him.
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:04 PM   #20
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thats some great investigative work right there.. My salesman actually said they barely got any profit for my jeep. 17.2k OTD for a 05 x with hard top and 37k miles.

I guess its an ok price with tax and crap, but with interest for 5 years I could get a rubi. This is my first financing on anything and I am 28. and always had good credit. I felt if I buy a jeep with tons of miles it would be abused. and it would be an older model with kinks.

the sales guy actually told me his boss called him and somene offered 18k cash. and I was lucky I bought it. right after I signed the papers. O and this suposibly guy who wants to buy it never seen the jeep. If he told be that before I signed I would have walked out.. Assholes... Say whatever it takes, lie to get a deal.

The worse part was sitting with the finance MGr. trying to sell me extra warranty and a cheapie alarm. when I told him no in the beginning. Factory warranty is 70, and 5 years.. Plus I knoe I am going to Lift it and such anyway.. bad experience. I never had problems, buying cars for cash from a private seller. its so simple. They want to sell, quickly and I want to buy quickly.

not all but most salesmen are scum. I have a brother in law that is one. nice guy in person. buy I would not buy a car from him without knowing him.
Yeah, it's crazy man. My favorite was a couple months ago I saw a 2007 Rubicon, they wanted upwards to 30k for it!! It had almost 50k miles, but a bunch in accessories. Come to find out it wasn't even a Rubicon! It had the decal package. I called them out on it and they still claimed it was a Rubicon. Then, I told them they were out of their minds at almost 30k and they said "well it's loaded with accessories", and I laughed because when you trade a vehicle in with accessories you're lucky to get an extra $10!!

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Old 04-02-2008, 08:39 PM   #21
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OK you guys should know a friend of mine has a 97 tj 4.0 auto 99k miles all stock no rust and brand new tinted soft top,new highway tread very very clean he is asking 4900. what do you think. he ask me and i jess dont know prices.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:01 PM   #22
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do people actually believe the stories those salesmen tell them. if someone told me a guy just called and offered 18 cash unseen, i would have said sold, see ya later, and sorry i wasted your time.

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