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Old 06-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #1
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Lighting Problem-Help

Just got some KC apollo 5" driving lights with relay and switch. I got the lights mounted and all wires grounded, connected to the battery and everything but they wont go on. Any advice?

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Old 06-13-2012, 12:31 AM   #2
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Double check the wire connections. It can be easy to hook up the wrong one and be a headache. It happens all the time. Also double check to see if the ground is good.

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Old 06-13-2012, 07:50 AM   #3
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The most common relay in use today are the little Bosch “ice-cubes”.

(SEE PHOTO BELOW on Wiring a Relay)

Everybody uses them, and for good reason. They have a 30A capacity, are small, and use standard readily available crimp on connectors. ( I always Solder my connections ) Here’s an explanation of what the numbers mean: (DOUBLE CHECK THE WAY YOU HOOKED UP YOUR WIRES, and to WHAT #'s you hooked them to)

#30 = Relay Common ("C" or Com)
#87 = Normally Open (NO)
#85 = Relay Coil
#86 = Relay Coil
#87a = Normally Closed (NC)
(2nd #87 = Normally Open (some relay models have two switched contacts)).

#30 – Common ("C" or Com)
This is the un-switched lug, or “supply”. This is where the fused/breakered heavy gage positive feed wire from the battery would connect to.

#87 – Normally Open (N.O.)
This is the switched contact. This is where your load connects to (if you want to turn it “ON” when the relay trips). This terminal will supply the positive current/voltage to the load.

#87a – Normally Closed (N.C.)
This is the Un-switched contact. This terminal is connected to #30 when the relay is “at rest” or not tripped. This is where your load connects to (if you want to turn it “OFF” when the relay trips). This terminal will break the positive current/voltage to the load.

#86 – Relay Coil
This is ½ of the electromagnet coil that trips the relay. This terminal is connected to ground.

#85 – Relay Coil
This is the other ½ of the electromagnetic coil. This is where your “dinky little toggle switch” sends positive 12 volts to.

Relay Rules:
#1 – Any REPEAT ANY wire supplying terminal #30 MUST be protected by a fuse or fusible link. Why?? Fire prevention and safety. With no fuse the circuit will cook until something melts – usually the wire, but after the rest of the car is on fire…….

#2 – Any wire connected to #30 AND #87 OR #87a must be of equal or larger size than the wires that are on the load. Why?? A smaller gage wire has less current capacity, and will overheat (melt) when the load exceeds its capacity.

Revision:

All of the above connection descriptions can also be used to switch the Negative or "Ground" side of a circuit on or off as well. Just substitute the word "Negative" for "Positive" in the descriptions of terminals #30, #87, and #87a.
Even though you are switching the Neg/Gnd. side of the circuit, PLEASE follow the safety rules and FUSE the supply side of the circuit!



#85 Trigger Wire in above Photo means your ON/OFF SWITCH
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:24 AM   #4
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I don't plan on adding lights for a while but WOW, what a great writeup!
Thank you Coyoteon2!!
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteOn2
The most common relay in use today are the little Bosch “ice-cubes”.

(SEE PHOTO BELOW on Wiring a Relay)

Everybody uses them, and for good reason. They have a 30A capacity, are small, and use standard readily available crimp on connectors. ( I always Solder my connections ) Here’s an explanation of what the numbers mean: (DOUBLE CHECK THE WAY YOU HOOKED UP YOUR WIRES, and to WHAT #'s you hooked them to)

#30 = Relay Common ("C" or Com)
#87 = Normally Open (NO)
#85 = Relay Coil
#86 = Relay Coil
#87a = Normally Closed (NC)
(2nd #87 = Normally Open (some relay models have two switched contacts)).

#30 – Common ("C" or Com)
This is the un-switched lug, or “supply”. This is where the fused/breakered heavy gage positive feed wire from the battery would connect to.

#87 – Normally Open (N.O.)
This is the switched contact. This is where your load connects to (if you want to turn it “ON” when the relay trips). This terminal will supply the positive current/voltage to the load.

#87a – Normally Closed (N.C.)
This is the Un-switched contact. This terminal is connected to #30 when the relay is “at rest” or not tripped. This is where your load connects to (if you want to turn it “OFF” when the relay trips). This terminal will break the positive current/voltage to the load.

#86 – Relay Coil
This is ½ of the electromagnet coil that trips the relay. This terminal is connected to ground.

#85 – Relay Coil
This is the other ½ of the electromagnetic coil. This is where your “dinky little toggle switch” sends positive 12 volts to.

Relay Rules:
#1 – Any REPEAT ANY wire supplying terminal #30 MUST be protected by a fuse or fusible link. Why?? Fire prevention and safety. With no fuse the circuit will cook until something melts – usually the wire, but after the rest of the car is on fire…….

#2 – Any wire connected to #30 AND #87 OR #87a must be of equal or larger size than the wires that are on the load. Why?? A smaller gage wire has less current capacity, and will overheat (melt) when the load exceeds its capacity.

Revision:

All of the above connection descriptions can also be used to switch the Negative or "Ground" side of a circuit on or off as well. Just substitute the word "Negative" for "Positive" in the descriptions of terminals #30, #87, and #87a.
Even though you are switching the Neg/Gnd. side of the circuit, PLEASE follow the safety rules and FUSE the supply side of the circuit!



#85 Trigger Wire in above Photo means your ON/OFF SWITCH
Wow, awesome write up. But the KC relay and harness come so all the wires are already in place and you just connect the relay. I can get a pic in a little while
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by NorthwestTJ View Post
Wow, awesome write up. But the KC relay and harness come so all the wires are already in place and you just connect the relay. I can get a pic in a little while
I'll save you a step. I have an sPod so I have a couple of KC relays hanging around.







It's pretty much as he explained it, BUT the relays with your KC harness have 2 87 tabs instead of an 87 and an 87a tab. This is so you can have your 2 lights working with the switch.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:41 AM   #7
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Now as for your dilema. You have everything wired up and nothing works when you hit the switch. Does the switch led light up? Do you have a tester (looks like a pen and lights up when the tip makes contact with a live voltage source)?
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #8
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Now as for your dilema. You have everything wired up and nothing works when you hit the switch. Does the switch led light up? Do you have a tester (looks like a pen and lights up when the tip makes contact with a live voltage source)?
Correct, and the led light does not come on. It did at first but the lights werent coming on so I re-grounded the wire for the lights. the lights then worked but then I changed the switches cause I didnt like the one I used. Then the everything stopped working. Could I have shorted something?
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:02 PM   #9
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Ok, this is what I'd do. Take the positive wire from the switch (IIRC it's the green one) and touch it to the positive battey terminal or if you are in the cab, find a working power source and use the positive terminal. If the lights light up, then it's a switch problem. Take the end from the switch, NOT the relay. You are simulating the switch turning on.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin
Ok, this is what I'd do. Take the positive wire from the switch (IIRC it's the green one) and touch it to the positive battey terminal or if you are in the cab, find a working power source and use the positive terminal. If the lights light up, then it's a switch problem. Take the end from the switch, NOT the relay. You are simulating the switch turning on.
Im just sitting at my house now so I'll go try it
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Vin
Ok, this is what I'd do. Take the positive wire from the switch (IIRC it's the green one) and touch it to the positive battey terminal or if you are in the cab, find a working power source and use the positive terminal. If the lights light up, then it's a switch problem. Take the end from the switch, NOT the relay. You are simulating the switch turning on.
Just tested, a the lights work! So what should I do now if its the switch?
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:39 PM   #12
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OK, where are you getting the power to the switch? If you take that wire off the switch and touch the green wire, do the lights go on?
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:41 PM   #13
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You said you changed the switch, because the switch you didn't like the switch you used. What switch are you using right now?
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:51 PM   #14
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Anyone know much about the towing limits of 2010 rubicon 4 door?
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin
OK, where are you getting the power to the switch? If you take that wire off the switch and touch the green wire, do the lights go on?
Im not home not but I will try later. In the pic I just posted of the switch te green is obviously the load, the brown is the ground and the white is the 'lights'. That what the instructions and the sticker on the switch call it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin
You said you changed the switch, because the switch you didn't like the switch you used. What switch are you using right now?
The KC switch. I used one that had a light in it but when the lights and engine were off it stayed on so thats why I swapped back to the KC one.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:33 PM   #16
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First touch the white wire to the green wire and see if the lights turn on. If they work then you have a good power source.

Unfortunately, I can't see the front of the switch. The side with the LED should be the side connected to the brown wire, green in the middle, and white on the bottom. Make sure that's how the switch is wired. I'll check back later.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin
First touch the white wire to the green wire and see if the lights turn on. If they work then you have a good power source.

Unfortunately, I can't see the front of the switch. The side with the LED should be the side connected to the brown wire, green in the middle, and white on the bottom. Make sure that's how the switch is wired. I'll check back later.
Tried white to green and no luck. So its the white wire thats the problem. Also the wires are in correct order on the switch.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:52 PM   #18
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Are you good then?
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #19
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Are you good then?
Not quite, when the two wires are put together theres no light. So im guessing the white wire is the problem. Any suggestions?
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:02 PM   #20
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What did you tap into with the white wire?
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin
What did you tap into with the white wire?
What do you mean?
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:11 PM   #22
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Where's the other end of the white wire connected to?
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:18 PM   #23
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Where's the other end of the white wire connected to?
The white goes to a fuse then the battery. The green goes to the relay, then a yellow wire goes to a fuse then the battery.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:22 PM   #24
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Check the fuse on the white wire.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:25 PM   #25
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Since we established that the green wire, when attached to the battery turns on the light, and the white wire when contacting the green wire does nothing, the problem is with the white wire. It's either the fuse or the actual connection to the battery.

When you touch the white wire to the green wire, it should light the lights.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:48 PM   #26
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Fuse looks fine, just re-did the connection to the battery and still nothing works. Do I need to replace the white wire then?
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Check the fuse on the white wire.
Looks ok
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:05 PM   #28
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Change it out just to be sure. There may be a break that's not clearly visible.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Change it out just to be sure. There may be a break that's not clearly visible.
Alright. Is like 14 or 16 gauge wire good?
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:24 PM   #30
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For the white wire? It's fine. It's only carrying enough power to trigger the relay. The thickest wire will be the yellow wire to the relay.

ETA I meant change out the fuse first, before you change out the wire.

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