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Old 03-10-2013, 08:12 AM   #1
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Need Help with DW

Hey guys and gals,

I recently installed a Teraflex 2.5" coil lift. After the install, I made sure to torque all control arm bolts to the correct ft lbs and the trackbars both front and back. After that I took it for a test drive and noticed that when i stop quickly (For example I am stopped and let my foot off the brake to get a slight roll and slam on my brake) I feel something shifting in the front end. I have been googling this issue for a couple hours now and have found no information. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:26 AM   #2
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Hey guys and gals,

I recently installed a Teraflex 2.5" coil lift. After the install, I made sure to torque all control arm bolts to the correct ft lbs and the trackbars both front and back. After that I took it for a test drive and noticed that when i stop quickly (For example I am stopped and let my foot off the brake to get a slight roll and slam on my brake) I feel something shifting in the front end. I have been googling this issue for a couple hours now and have found no information. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
If you tightened everything up to spec (with the Jeep on the ground, resting on it's own weight...good idea to rock it around a little, too, so everything settles), there shouldn't be a problem with the lift, CAs, or TBs. Maybe crawl under it and see if there's some play in your wheel bearings, steering linkage, etc.

If you DIDN'T tighten the TBs and CAs with the Jeep on the ground, then it's quite possible that one of the bushings is in a bind...

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:53 AM   #3
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If you tightened everything up to spec (with the Jeep on the ground, resting on it's own weight...good idea to rock it around a little, too, so everything settles), there shouldn't be a problem with the lift, CAs, or TBs. Maybe crawl under it and see if there's some play in your wheel bearings, steering linkage, etc.

If you DIDN'T tighten the TBs and CAs with the Jeep on the ground, then it's quite possible that one of the bushings is in a bind...
When I did the tightening I had Jack stands under the axles. Would that still simulate it being under its own weight? I will try to reloosen the trackbars and control arms again and re torque them. Also I have a slight wobble at 50-55mph could this issue be causing that issue? Before the lift I didn't have any issues at all (for informational purposes).
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:08 AM   #4
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When I did the tightening I had Jack stands under the axles. Would that still simulate it being under its own weight? I will try to reloosen the trackbars and control arms again and re torque them. Also I have a slight wobble at 50-55mph could this issue be causing that issue? Before the lift I didn't have any issues at all (for informational purposes).
You need to torque the TBs and CAs with the Jeep on the ground, resting on it's own weight, at ride height. Pretty sure that's where you went wrong, and as a result you've got some binding in one of the bushings, which can lead to Death Wobble.

Simply loosen em all up, rock the Jeep on its springs to settle it, and re-torque. It's also important to check the torque on the TBs after the first 50 miles, and periodically after that (especially after you go wheeling). I mark all my TB/CA bolts with a sharpie so I can just check em visually.

The first two posts in this thread will tell you all about DW, and the causes of various other shimmies and shakes. How to find em and fix em. Some of the most worthwhile info you'll find on this forum:
Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles

Also, your stock bolts aren't shoulder bolts, and are very slightly undersized. Most of us change those out, as they can actually start to wallow out the bushings over time: The Importance of changing out stock bolts!!
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:01 PM   #5
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You need to torque the TBs and CAs with the Jeep on the ground, resting on it's own weight, at ride height. Pretty sure that's where you went wrong, and as a result you've got some binding in one of the bushings, which can lead to Death Wobble.

Simply loosen em all up, rock the Jeep on its springs to settle it, and re-torque. It's also important to check the torque on the TBs after the first 50 miles, and periodically after that (especially after you go wheeling). I mark all my TB/CA bolts with a sharpie so I can just check em visually.

The first two posts in this thread will tell you all about DW, and the causes of various other shimmies and shakes. How to find em and fix em. Some of the most worthwhile info you'll find on this forum:
Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles

Also, your stock bolts aren't shoulder bolts, and are very slightly undersized. Most of us change those out, as they can actually start to wallow out the bushings over time: The Importance of changing out stock bolts!!
When I have some time I will re torque them. Ill keep you updated!
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:31 PM   #6
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You need to torque the TBs and CAs with the Jeep on the ground, resting on it's own weight, at ride height. Pretty sure that's where you went wrong, and as a result you've got some binding in one of the bushings, which can lead to Death Wobble.

Simply loosen em all up, rock the Jeep on its springs to settle it, and re-torque. It's also important to check the torque on the TBs after the first 50 miles, and periodically after that (especially after you go wheeling). I mark all my TB/CA bolts with a sharpie so I can just check em visually.

The first two posts in this thread will tell you all about DW, and the causes of various other shimmies and shakes. How to find em and fix em. Some of the most worthwhile info you'll find on this forum:
Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles

Also, your stock bolts aren't shoulder bolts, and are very slightly undersized. Most of us change those out, as they can actually start to wallow out the bushings over time: The Importance of changing out stock bolts!!
So I was re checking all my bolts and talked to the dealership to get the correct torque specs or should I say double check. Found a couple issues:

1. Upper control arms on the rear are supposed to be 125 ft lbs. I misread the instructions and torqued them to 75 ft lbs. So I fixed that.

2. It really helps to torque the lower control arms in the rear on the axle. I completely missed those.

Now that I have done that no more clunk/shifting feeling.

New problem, now when I get up to 45-55mph I get a good bit of death wobble (not life threatening yet). I watched the videos and checked my steering system from the pitarm to the end of the tie rod with no issues found. Checked the ball joints and no issues found. I was thinking it was maybe a bad tire but it didn't do it before the lift.
Anyone have any other ideas?
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:20 PM   #7
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So I was re checking all my bolts and talked to the dealership to get the correct torque specs or should I say double check. Found a couple issues:

1. Upper control arms on the rear are supposed to be 125 ft lbs. I misread the instructions and torqued them to 75 ft lbs. So I fixed that.

2. It really helps to torque the lower control arms in the rear on the axle. I completely missed those.

Now that I have done that no more clunk/shifting feeling.

New problem, now when I get up to 45-55mph I get a good bit of death wobble (not life threatening yet). I watched the videos and checked my steering system from the pitarm to the end of the tie rod with no issues found. Checked the ball joints and no issues found. I was thinking it was maybe a bad tire but it didn't do it before the lift.
Anyone have any other ideas?
Hate to say this, but there's a possibility that by driving it with the bolts not torqued (were they just loose? ) you may have wallowed out something, or even damaged something. First thing I'd check would be the track bars, but I'm assuming you did that when you went back and re-torqued.

All CAs and TBs should be 125 ft-lbs except the front upper control arms, which are 75 ft-lbs. Just FYI...I've heard of dealers getting it wrong.

Did you check your bushings to see if they were wallowed out or chewed up by the stock bolt threads? That's what the second link I gave you in post #4 deals with.

Hopefully it's something you can identify and correct without it being too much of a PITA.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:45 PM   #8
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Hate to say this, but there's a possibility that by driving it with the bolts not torqued (were they just loose? ) you may have wallowed out something, or even damaged something. First thing I'd check would be the track bars, but I'm assuming you did that when you went back and re-torqued.

All CAs and TBs should be 125 ft-lbs except the front upper control arms, which are 75 ft-lbs. Just FYI...I've heard of dealers getting it wrong.

Did you check your bushings to see if they were wallowed out or chewed up by the stock bolt threads? That's what the second link I gave you in post #4 deals with.

Hopefully it's something you can identify and correct without it being too much of a PITA.
Yeah I checked everything and lucky enough I didn't wallow anything out. Also I had everything at the correct ft lbs for the entire front end.

I was driving it more tonight and I didn't have any dw which is strange. Hopefully it stays that way.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:45 PM   #9
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Yeah I checked everything and lucky enough I didn't wallow anything out. Also I had everything at the correct ft lbs for the entire front end.

I was driving it more tonight and I didn't have any dw which is strange. Hopefully it stays that way.
Day 2: got the Jeep up to 65mph and still no death wobble. I'm hoping it was just the suspension settling in. We shall see......
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:41 PM   #10
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Day 2: got the Jeep up to 65mph and still no death wobble. I'm hoping it was just the suspension settling in. We shall see......
Man, I'd be paranoid.

Hope it works out for you.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #11
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Man, I'd be paranoid.

Hope it works out for you.
So just drove to get my daughter and I got a slight wobble again. Did some more research. I am now trying air pressure. Anyone know what the sweet spot is for 285/70/17 is? I was at 35 but I just raised it to 40.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:31 AM   #12
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So just drove to get my daughter and I got a slight wobble again. Did some more research. I am now trying air pressure. Anyone know what the sweet spot is for 285/70/17 is? I was at 35 but I just raised it to 40.
No, that's way too high.

General rule of thumb: for 33" tires you want about 30-32 PSI; for 35" tires about 28-30 PSI.

I run 31 in my 35" DuraTracs, which is a little higher than most.

Unfortunately, a lot of tire shops (and almost all dealers) will jack the PSI up to 36-37 in aftermarket tires, as per the instructions on the door placard. That's just flat-out wrong.

It'll make your Jeep drive like sh#*; squirrely, harsh steering, etc.

Try 32 and see how that feels; I guarantee it'll be a vast improvement. May need to go lower – a simple chalk test will allow you to find the optimum PSI for tire wear.

Whether or not that'll fix your wobble issues, I can't say. But it'll definitely improve the way your Jeep feels on the road, wobble aside.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #13
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okay... now that you've got everything checked. let me ask a simple question... what is the relationship between your track bar and your drag link? when you installed the lift, did you install a track bar relocation bracket?

what i mean is - the angles of both the track bar and drag link should match. if it looks like a > instead of a = (the bars should parallel each other), that can cause your DW also. lifting your track bar "up" by using the TB relocation bracket can solve some of those problems.

lots of things change when you lift a jeep. all part of the learning process. and i'll say it. i experienced this first hand about a month ago... i took my TB relocation bracket off - reinforced the stock location and thought i was good. well the angles didn't match and i was all over the road.

thanks to some input from buddies it was a quick fix...

long story short, the TB relocation bracket is back on, and my steering is tighter than it was when i drove it off the lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:29 PM   #14
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okay... now that you've got everything checked. let me ask a simple question... what is the relationship between your track bar and your drag link? when you installed the lift, did you install a track bar relocation bracket?

what i mean is - the angles of both the track bar and drag link should match. if it looks like a > instead of a = (the bars should parallel each other), that can cause your DW also. lifting your track bar "up" by using the TB relocation bracket can solve some of those problems.

lots of things change when you lift a jeep. all part of the learning process. and i'll say it. i experienced this first hand about a month ago... i took my TB relocation bracket off - reinforced the stock location and thought i was good. well the angles didn't match and i was all over the road.

thanks to some input from buddies it was a quick fix...

long story short, the TB relocation bracket is back on, and my steering is tighter than it was when i drove it off the lot.
Good call, tabber.

I didn't even think of that...misaligned track bar/drag link is actually the cause of bump steer. Still nasty, though.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:53 PM   #15
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okay... now that you've got everything checked. let me ask a simple question... what is the relationship between your track bar and your drag link? when you installed the lift, did you install a track bar relocation bracket?

what i mean is - the angles of both the track bar and drag link should match. if it looks like a > instead of a = (the bars should parallel each other), that can cause your DW also. lifting your track bar "up" by using the TB relocation bracket can solve some of those problems.

lots of things change when you lift a jeep. all part of the learning process. and i'll say it. i experienced this first hand about a month ago... i took my TB relocation bracket off - reinforced the stock location and thought i was good. well the angles didn't match and i was all over the road.

thanks to some input from buddies it was a quick fix...

long story short, the TB relocation bracket is back on, and my steering is tighter than it was when i drove it off the lot.
My TB and draglink are parallel. One question though, treadled only gave me a rear TB extension. They say the front doesn't need one. Is that correct?
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:03 PM   #16
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My TB and draglink are parallel. One question though, treadled only gave me a rear TB extension. They say the front doesn't need one. Is that correct?
That's right...you'd only need one if your front axle was off-center after your install.

Since you don't have one, disregard the TB/drag link info.

But do adjust your tire PSI, as I mentioned a couple posts up. You'll see a marked difference.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:23 PM   #17
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That's right...you'd only need one if your front axle was off-center after your install.

Since you don't have one, disregard the TB/drag link info.

But do adjust your tire PSI, as I mentioned a couple posts up. You'll see a marked difference.
Yeah, I just dropped it to 30 in all 4. Ill test it tomorrow driving to work. Are you from VA?
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:28 AM   #18
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Yeah, I just dropped it to 30 in all 4. Ill test it tomorrow driving to work. Are you from VA?
From Texas, but lived in Richmond for awhile. Still visit family there a couple times a year.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:31 AM   #19
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From Texas, but lived in Richmond for awhile. Still visit family there a couple times a year.
Cool, let me know when you bring the Jeep up so we can do some wheelin. I'm getting ready to leave for work now so ill post what my drive is like when I get home.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:02 AM   #20
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Cool, let me know when you bring the Jeep up so we can do some wheelin. I'm getting ready to leave for work now so ill post what my drive is like when I get home.
Will do.

I usually drive there once or twice a year. Hope your Jeep feels better on the road today.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #21
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Will do.

I usually drive there once or twice a year. Hope your Jeep feels better on the road today.
Well the ride was smoother, but the wobble is still there. I might go get my tires rebalanced, the place that did it wasn't exactly a premium auto shop.

Its just weird because its only between 50-55 when it happens and if I am accelerating through that range, I don't feel it at all.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:34 AM   #22
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Well the ride was smoother, but the wobble is still there. I might go get my tires rebalanced, the place that did it wasn't exactly a premium auto shop.

Its just weird because its only between 50-55 when it happens and if I am accelerating through that range, I don't feel it at all.
So I finally got my tires rebalanced and rotated. That made it way worse, I almost died on my way home. Called the place back and told them, they told me to bring it back in. Long story short, it was a bent rim. It was out by 9 oz and when they put it on the front it was when it was the worst. Thanks for the help guys and I look forward to wheelin with y'all one of these days!

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