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Old 05-04-2009, 04:03 PM   #1
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oil change time!!

hey all,

so I will be changing my oil this weekend as well as doing the tranny fluid that i mentioned in a previous thread.

anyone have any recommendations on oil?

J

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Old 05-04-2009, 04:13 PM   #2
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what year and engine? i use valvoline max life, designed for engines w/ 75k or more. but more importantly to me is the filter. there's a lot of cheap oil filters that suck. fram most specifically. i will only use mopar or wix filters. wix is sold as napa gold, carquest blue, and lee bumper to bumper. i've seen cheap oil filters litterally come apart inside when i took them off customers cars, and loose parts rattling around, not good. cheap filters use cardboard and other crappy materials for their anti drain back valves and so on.

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Old 05-04-2009, 04:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
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what year and engine? i use valvoline max life, designed for engines w/ 75k or more. but more importantly to me is the filter. there's a lot of cheap oil filters that suck. fram most specifically. i will only use mopar or wix filters. wix is sold as napa gold, carquest blue, and lee bumper to bumper. i've seen cheap oil filters litterally come apart inside when i took them off customers cars, and loose parts rattling around, not good. cheap filters use cardboard and other crappy materials for their anti drain back valves and so on.
sorry - 1999 manual inline6
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:31 PM   #4
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probably over 75k, i'm a fan of valvoline. i've tried others, used to like castrol. penzoil sucks. i see no need for synthetics if you were asking that also, although they now call max life a synthetic blend.

i subscribe to the idea that synthetic oil can leak in higher mileage motors, the smaller molecular compound explanation made sense to me.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:33 PM   #5
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probably over 75k, i'm a fan of valvoline. i've tried others, used to like castrol. penzoil sucks. i see no need for synthetics if you were asking that also, although they now call max life a synthetic blend.

i subscribe to the idea that synthetic oil can leak in higher mileage motors, the smaller molecular compound explanation made sense to me.
it has 64k on it
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:35 PM   #6
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nice, low miles. i'd personally run regular valvoline 10w30, or durablend if you wanna spend some, its a synthetic blend. but like i said, pay attention to the filters to.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:41 PM   #7
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Im a big fan of factory filters and next best being purolator. that said any name brand oil will be good as long as you pay attention to the rating sysmbols on the label. I look for turbo and diesel rated oils.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:19 PM   #8
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dave whats your thoughts on mobile1, waste of money?
I use it because the previous, original owner used it.
I thought I once heard that if your engine is running on synthetic you should stick with it, and not change to regular oil. Idk????

what about all the hype about royal purple oil, and there $15 filters??
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:36 PM   #9
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i think royal purple is a huge waste. unless your engine is worth 10 grand or more maybe.

mobil one is a waste to me to, but that doesn't mean its bad. it can't hurt. i change my oil on time every time. if you do, you don't need synthetic. and i'm not really a fan of using synthetic and going longer between oil changes really.

unless you have a european car that came w/ synthetic from the factory, or a race engine, i see no need.

now as far as switching from synthetic back to regular oil, i've heard the same things, i think its a scam. i don't think your engine will blow up if you do.

i also hear synthetic oil is bad for newer motors, it actually interferes with proper break in.

but hey, some people enjoy using it, swear by it and thats fine. i've never heard anything bad about it, accept some stories of leaks after switching with higher mileage. some people take pride, or enjoy that they are putting the most expensive stuff in their engine. i see no harm.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:10 PM   #10
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Mobil 1 is a waste of time & money your paying for a name. I'll have to find the links, but I learned a while back to read the specs and the back of the bottle now a days. It's funny how the Mobil 1 & Wal-Mart Brand oil meet the same specs and actually wal-mart oil meets a couple of the better specs. ACEA A3

Motor oils that meet ACEA A1 minimum, A3 (ACEA A3/B3-04) ideally. Gear oils meeting SAE J2360

Soooo spend $2.50 a bottle or $8.00 a bottle.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:47 PM   #11
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^ Both of the above are absolutely untrue. Having built street and race motors for years now, the ONLY thing any engine I build will run is Mobil 1. I also use it in every vehicle I own.
Synthetic is not "bad" for anything except your budget. It has a lower pour point, which means it moves easier in cold conditions. It has lower viscosity change, which is why you can often extend service intervals. It has a higher threshold for thermal breakdown, which means it's better in hot climates and high-performance (yes, off-roading is very much so included in that) applications. It has smaller particles which reduces friction, which creates less heat and improves power, fuel economy, and reduces emissions. It also conditions engine parts better, promoting longer life.
It is in no way a rip-off. There is not a single engine out there that wouldn't benefit from synthetic oil. Period.
The ONLY downside to it is the cost. If you plan to keep a car for 2-3 years and sell it, it simply WILL NOT pay for itself. If you plan on keeping a vehicle 'til death do you part, it will handily pay for itself. Figure this math:
Assume a 300K life span
Figuring you change every 3k with mineral oil:
Oil and filter- $20 times 100- $2,000
Figuring synthetic changes every 5k:
Oil and filter- $40 times 60- $2,400
That's a $400 difference over 300,000 miles. Factor in even a 1/2 MPG gain (conservative), and that difference drops. Factor in the fact that the synthetic motor likely won't ever have needed a rebuild (rings and bearings), and it's a bargain.

Do what's right for you and your budget. I can tell you with absolute certainty that neither synthetic nor mineral oil is BAD for your engine, but I can also tell you with absolute certainty that synthetic is better for your engine. Up to you and what you want to do- Mark W.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:01 PM   #12
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For the oil you can get mobil one for the same price as dyno oil. For a oil change in the jeep for me is 26 bucks for mobil 1
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:21 PM   #13
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just to be annoying, synthetic engine oil on a way generous estimation may give a 2% increase in mpg, which is probably twice as much as it actually gives. but 2% of a 16 mpg jeep is .32 mpg, not .5, and i think that is an over estimate. probably more like 1% gain, and .16 mpg

i think the statistic i remember seeing is all synthetic fluids, trans, engine, and diffs, could gain 2%. and synthetic oil in differentials has proven to be less beneficial than straight gear oil

i never said it was bad, but i just wouldn't do it, i may run a blend in my stroker motor, but probably not full synthetic.

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mobil 1 is a waste to me, but that doesn't mean its bad
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:34 PM   #14
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Oh :-p on percentages. Any boost is still a nice bonus. So there Mark W.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:36 PM   #15
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Everyone has their opinions, so I guess it's up to you on what you want to run and if you believe the hype of everything.

Check around some of the other boards
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:05 PM   #16
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Fancy oils are not needed unless you are racing the vehicle. If any of you out there ever saw on TV the adds for slick 50 engine treatment years ago take notice that the engine they always used was an inline 6 most likely the 4.0L engine

Just buy a decent oil, change it when you should and use a good filter
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:38 PM   #17
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Not true. Synthetic does it better --- no competition. If you want the ultimate in protection, wear and efficiency, synthetic is the premium choice, without question or debate. That being said, a well maintained engine running quality API/SM (GF-4) oil with quality filter (personally I am partial to the Puralator PureOne or Mopar/Wix units) will last
a very long time......For me, on a non-racing or import running Mobil 1 from the factory, I choose to run dino, change at 500 & 1000 and then migrate over to synthetic at 3000 miles.

However, that being said the line between pure synthetics and enriched dinos are become closer and closer. And, heck man --- don't debate me on the outrageous price! You can get 5 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum or SynPower for about $20 total. You tell me that is too expensive for ya? Even Mobil 1 only costs about $23-25 at WalMart. CRAZY CHEAP.

But new oil is a coming! For instance for summer 2009, a new oil designation (GF-5) will become the new de facto standard for all gasoline engines (and new factory fill) for 2010. ILSEC is pushing this new oil to replace the GF-4 improving a ton of areas: corrosion, wear, sludge, emissions, fuel economy, etc.....major advancements.

Bottomline: For a $30k+ vehicle --- it is worth it to me to do it right.
YMMV.

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Old 05-05-2009, 10:07 PM   #18
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Just noticing something here. Both of the JKer's are recommending synthetic while other jeep driver's are not.

Not saying anything bad about both Andy and Duke have given great advice.

I was wondering about there are YJ's that have never ran synthetic but are still consistently running over 250,000 miles with the 4.0 motor.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:20 PM   #19
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I was wondering about there are YJ's that have never ran synthetic but are still consistently running over 250,000 miles with the 4.0 motor.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:04 AM   #20
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Nothing was stated anything about Synthetic vs. Dino or not to use Synthetic.

I just stated that one should read the specs and make a decision on their own basis & understanding.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:35 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Sb5551 View Post
Just noticing something here. Both of the JKer's are recommending synthetic while other jeep driver's are not.

Not saying anything bad about both Andy and Duke have given great advice.

I was wondering about there are YJ's that have never ran synthetic but are still consistently running over 250,000 miles with the 4.0 motor.
Apparently, a new reason for a rift between Wrangler owners...

Perhaps simply for a moment let's consider that the JK models are actually newer than the TJ, YJ or CJs and that is why the debate is more appropriate. Since the engines are brand new and the abundance of oil choices are so prevalent, it is a quick study in rational analysis not divisiveness. This vehicle is actually the cheapest vehicle I have purchased in the last 10 years, but all of my vehicles outside of my 2002 Tahoe (which is my DD and has 160k on dino oil) have run Mobil1 from the factory and have been carried for with absolute precision and dedication.

Simple solution: choose your manner, method and procedure for maintaining your own engine. However, don't disseminate arcane logic and "fuzzy math" concepts about science against proven empirical data. There is no substitute for synthetic oil in engines, quality synthetics are superior. As stated, a well-maintained API SM/GF-4 oil will offer near-similar wear and longevity characteristics in Jeep engines, so choose your own poison.

For me, it is not a debate merely a personal decision.
It is certainly not a reason to attempt to reveal or infer differences amongst Wrangler owners. When I owned & ran my 81 CJ-7, I used the cheapest oil I could find, and I wasn't nearly as concerned nor educated at the time. Of course, I was 20 years old and my engineering days were ahead of me. For me, life is a personal process of maturation and education.

I don't care what model of Jeep someone drives, and I certainly don't give a @$@! what anyone thinks of my JK nor what kind of oil I should use in my engine. I was merely trying to offer some insight not contribute to the overall inherent contempt against JK owners in general.

Oh, well --- see you on the trails....
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:11 AM   #22
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i don't think anyone inferred contempt against jk owners at all.

keep in mind the engine in your jk has been around for a long time, it is by no means a new designed engine. at least 15 yrs, maybe more.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:06 AM   #23
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What Andy said
And my statement was not based on opinion- it was based on cold hard fact, experience, and dyno testing.
I worked as a contractor at a high-performance automotive shop as an engine builder and dyno dork in Orlando a few years back, and while there, did quite a bit of testing on various oils, synthetic and mineral. We tested back-to-back-to-back with recycled oil (Valucraft/Walmart poop), off-the-shelf mineral oil (Castrol), off-the-shelf synthetic (Mobil 1, Royal Purple), and race oils (Redline) in as close to lab conditions as possible.
We built five brand fresh 4G63 (Eclipse/Laser/Talon/Evo turbo motors), built to the SAME spec, all putting out within 5 horsepower and 4 ft.-lbs. of torque of each other. Note: we were KIND of an Evo shop Your results may vary The test conditions were within a few degrees (Fahrenheit) of each other, humidity was constant. The owner of the shop just wanted to.

Engine A got the recycled crap after an hour of dyno break-in. Power went DOWN from 327 BHP to 318 BHP, and torque dropped about 10 ft.-lbs. average.
Engine B got the Castrol. It put out 331 BHP and was up about 2 ft.-lbs. average after break-in. NOTE: We used the same brand/type oil, just straight 30-weight to break in, so this was our "control."
Engine C got Royal Purple. It put out 342 BHP and was up 9 ft.-lbs. of torque average.
Engine D got Mobil 1. It put out 345 BHP and was up 10-11 ft.-lbs. of torque average.
Engine E got Redline. It put out 346 BHP and was up 11-12 ft.-lbs. of torque average.
Note: all of the above were averaged over 5 test pulls.
After the pulls, we tore down the engines. Engines A, B, and C had no noticable changes in bearing coloration or wear between them. They were slightly discolored from use. Engines D and E looked perfectly new, had zero discoloration and zero apparent wear. Aside from being wet from having oil on the bearings, everything was good-as-new.

Now I know that's not the same environment as daily driving, but it does tell you a fair bit about different oils. Power gains are commensurate with reduced friction and operating temperatures. I'm sure if we'd done a sniffer in the exhaust, engines B, C,D, and E would have had increasingly lower emissions as well.
Same result for fuel economy, I'm sure- Mark W.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:58 AM   #24
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engine A oil changed on time with decent regular oil and filter
engine B oil changed on time with synthetic

both engines will last. you cannot distinct from that one will last longer.

our 2.5 4.0 and 3.8 motors have been around for a very long time. they are not hi performance, race motors. whatever makes the owner happy is good, as long as its done regularly
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:03 AM   #25
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But I can. The engine run in the same exact conditions with synthetic WILL last longer. Period.
Will most people keep their cars that long? No. Will there be other problems with the engine over that time that may effect the results? Possibly.
I'm just stating facts. I agree, though- whatever makes the owner happy is good As long as they need a rebuild at some point, I'm happy Mark W.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:46 PM   #26
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Oh lord, what is the DEAL with not being able admit to simply admit the following scientific FACTS, not opinions:

1. Synthetic oils are superior - offering superior lubrication, cooling properties, power & efficiency without the harsh base contaminants. There is no debate here whatsoever. I don't want to get into synthesized-hydrocarbon molecular chains or the usual base fluids such as polyalphaolefin (PAO), synthetic esters, and alkylated aromatics used to produce "synthetic oil" ---- suffice it to say that by careful organization of the molecular base structures, the oil can attain incredible uniformity not found in traditional motor oil. These characteristics allow for tremendous consistency in molecular size, shape and therefore abilities to endure temperature, oxidation & vaporization levels that traditional oil simply cannot achieve. All of these seemingly benign factors lead to products that are simply incredible for achieving maximum long-term engine performance.

2. Bottomline ---- Change your oil and filter when needed and your engine will be happy. Routine maintenance with quality API traditional motor oil is good practice & as Mark has admitted other components and factors would contribute to failure long before the oil has chemical deteriorated. (however wear & sludge will be greater than synthetic!)

Use what you want, but the oils (especially some of the 0w synthetics were developed and used in aerospace including outer space travel) --- I want to embrace that technology for any of my own automotive applications. Perhaps, I am a little biased due to my area of discipline, but through engineering experience, I know what works best and that is what and why I choose to run synthetic oil. BTW, all engines benefit from synthetic --- not 383 blueprinted strokers, or LS1s......yes even a lowly 3.8 or 4.0L will see wear and performance differences.

Spend your cash where you like.....it is all personal preference at the end of the day.

Run what you like....but don't contradict science.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:51 PM   #27
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Agreed. Also, to kill one other point that is often made: leakage in older engines. If it leaks with synthetic, it would leak with mineral oil. The smaller particles may make it leak SOONER, but it was an eventuality.
Cheers, and Andy- check your PM box Mark W.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:40 PM   #28
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here ya go, i use amsoil it just about everything i own... even my lawn mower. it has been serving my father and i for about 8 years now.



their oil filters are made by WIX. my mom owns a 99 ford expedition with the 4.6 V8, it regularly 13-14mpg. i switched her over to the AMS oil 100% synthetic and it jumped to 17-20mpg. so the savings there was nice too. not to mention it developed a tick at 150,000 and the shop said that it wouldn't even see 200,000 miles. at 160,000ish i switched over to the ams oil and it is still running today with 240,000 miles. granted that tick has gotten bad, but it is still running on all 8.
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:05 PM   #29
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i think the statistic i remember seeing is all synthetic fluids, trans, engine, and diffs, could gain 2%. and synthetic oil in differentials has proven to be less beneficial than straight gear oil

.
TRUE.. The syn in diffs wont handle the shock load created in that application.
almost all of the Gear Mfg recomend Dino oil. for differential service
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:19 PM   #30
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Oh lord, what is the DEAL with not being able admit to simply admit the following scientific FACTS, not opinions:

fact sheets are fine. i prefer years of service, mantaining, and repairing vehicles/engines first hand myself

Quote:
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here ya go, i use amsoil it just about everything i own... even my lawn mower. it has been serving my father and i for about 8 years now.
.
amsoil seems to be a good oil, but the 25k is bs. i have a customer that religiously used it at 25k in a big block suburban. that engine was knocking and banging at 70k, about 4 yrs old. he got rid of it. and that oil looked terrible when it came out, and i was there every time we changed it, all 3 or 4 times . i'd barely be comforatable with half that. (12k)

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