Trail Etiquette Rant - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > General Jeep Discussions > General Jeep Discussion

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 07-28-2013, 03:36 AM   #1
Jeeper
 
gregaf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 200
Trail Etiquette Rant

So out of all the years that I have been wheeling I have normally come across people on the trail that understand the basic etiquette associated with the trail. From everything that I have ever heard and understood, the person going uphill has the right of way, because it is harder and more dangerous to back up going down hill.
I also learned that if you are a single Jeep and you come up on a convoy, the single Jeep pulls over and lets the convoy go by. It is easier for 6 Jeeps to go around 1, especially on a tight trail.


So here is the fun situation that I ran into today... I was leading a group of 7 Jeeps and other rigs up a trail. It started to rain, so everything was slick. I pulled my Jeep through a section of this wash to a stopping point, then went back to spot the girl behind me. As I was coming back to my Jeep I notice a person at a wider point of the trail, and they stopped so I thought they had common sense. There was plenty of room for everyone to get around this Jeep where they were and they could see our whole group from the higher vantage point. So I just go back to help spot some others through a rough area and when I get back this db is now right in front of me and our group. I give them the WTF hand gesture because now we all have to drive around him at a narrow slopping section. And keep in mind that it is wet out and we are it a rock garden style wash.

Needless to say the guy just sits there and I start to go around him. I was doing great until the last part when I slid down the wet rock and our two back drivers side fenders flares hit. I got a light scratch and it popped his fender out of the clips. No big deal right... we are on the trail and a fender on a JK popped a couple clips out. No body damage what so ever. Nope this guy starts getting all mad because I hit him and starts demanding insurance information. Not only that but his little db buddy keeps on pointing out that the dealership license plate frame surround is broken, like it was some priceless family treasure.

It took everything that I had in me to keep my mouth shut after I told him that he should have stayed at the top where there was room for everyone to pass him safely. The only thing that we could think of was with the light raining this guy was in a hurry to get off the trail because it was topless and door less. I popped his fender flare back on the best that I could and gave him my info then I went on my way.

I just write it off as cosmetic trail damage, who cares I have desert pin stripping worse. But I am assuming that this guy is going to be a jerk about it. I personally have no problem helping him pull his flare off and ensuring that all of the clips are on and seated correctly, then re install it, but with his attitude I doubt that I will even do that. The only thing that the guy has is my first name and my cell phone number. I would also assume that they took a picture of my lic plate too, but who cares.

I told the guy that I was sorry, but honestly what else should I do. All cosmetic damage that occurred on a wet rocky trail that happened because the guy put himself in that situation. I am waiting to see if he is going to call me or just come to his senses.


Rant C/W.

gregaf3 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-28-2013, 04:41 AM   #2
Jeeper
 
VTBalla34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregaf3 View Post
So out of all the years that I have been wheeling I have normally come across people on the trail that understand the basic etiquette associated with the trail. From everything that I have ever heard and understood, the person going uphill has the right of way, because it is harder and more dangerous to back up going down hill.
I also learned that if you are a single Jeep and you come up on a convoy, the single Jeep pulls over and lets the convoy go by. It is easier for 6 Jeeps to go around 1, especially on a tight trail.

So here is the fun situation that I ran into today... I was leading a group of 7 Jeeps and other rigs up a trail. It started to rain, so everything was slick. I pulled my Jeep through a section of this wash to a stopping point, then went back to spot the girl behind me. As I was coming back to my Jeep I notice a person at a wider point of the trail, and they stopped so I thought they had common sense. There was plenty of room for everyone to get around this Jeep where they were and they could see our whole group from the higher vantage point. So I just go back to help spot some others through a rough area and when I get back this db is now right in front of me and our group. I give them the WTF hand gesture because now we all have to drive around him at a narrow slopping section. And keep in mind that it is wet out and we are it a rock garden style wash.

Needless to say the guy just sits there and I start to go around him. I was doing great until the last part when I slid down the wet rock and our two back drivers side fenders flares hit. I got a light scratch and it popped his fender out of the clips. No big deal right... we are on the trail and a fender on a JK popped a couple clips out. No body damage what so ever. Nope this guy starts getting all mad because I hit him and starts demanding insurance information. Not only that but his little db buddy keeps on pointing out that the dealership license plate frame surround is broken, like it was some priceless family treasure.

It took everything that I had in me to keep my mouth shut after I told him that he should have stayed at the top where there was room for everyone to pass him safely. The only thing that we could think of was with the light raining this guy was in a hurry to get off the trail because it was topless and door less. I popped his fender flare back on the best that I could and gave him my info then I went on my way.

I just write it off as cosmetic trail damage, who cares I have desert pin stripping worse. But I am assuming that this guy is going to be a jerk about it. I personally have no problem helping him pull his flare off and ensuring that all of the clips are on and seated correctly, then re install it, but with his attitude I doubt that I will even do that. The only thing that the guy has is my first name and my cell phone number. I would also assume that they took a picture of my lic plate too, but who cares.

I told the guy that I was sorry, but honestly what else should I do. All cosmetic damage that occurred on a wet rocky trail that happened because the guy put himself in that situation. I am waiting to see if he is going to call me or just come to his senses.

Rant C/W.
Cool story bro. 10/10. Will read again.

VTBalla34 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-28-2013, 08:16 AM   #3
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
jeepers29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Georgetown, Texas
Posts: 2,809
Good thing you have witnesses. Hope the rest of the trail was DB free.
jeepers29 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 12:03 AM   #4
TJZ
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
TJZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Az.
Posts: 1,609
Just realized what DB means. Sorry , it's late and took a minute but I like the Story even Better now. Lol
People like that should own a Prius.
TJZ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 06:16 AM   #5
Jeeper
 
tkfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: La Crescenta, CA
Posts: 988
Someone needs to revoke that DBs man card.
tkfx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 07:34 AM   #6
Jeeper
 
whetstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,109
You hit this guy's jeep, and he's a db because he wants you to take care of it?
__________________
As it turns out, I'm not a 'real' jeeper
whetstone is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 07:36 AM   #7
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
jeepers29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Georgetown, Texas
Posts: 2,809
No, he's a DB for not following trail rules then when it causes him an issue and a small one at that he gets bent!
jeepers29 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 07:53 AM   #8
Jeeper
 
whetstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepers29 View Post
No, he's a DB for not following trail rules then when it causes him an issue and a small one at that he gets bent!
Where are these rules written? How many times has the "db" been out on the trail to learn the unwritten courtesies? Why did op choose to throw hands up at "db" and drive into him rather than speak politely to an obvious newb and come to a solution?
I don't know about where y'all are, but refusing to exchange insurance info after an accident can carry some pretty stiff penalties in some places
__________________
As it turns out, I'm not a 'real' jeeper
whetstone is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 10:27 AM   #9
Jeeper
 
VTBalla34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by whetstone View Post

Where are these rules written? How many times has the "db" been out on the trail to learn the unwritten courtesies? Why did op choose to throw hands up at "db" and drive into him rather than speak politely to an obvious newb and come to a solution?
I don't know about where y'all are, but refusing to exchange insurance info after an accident can carry some pretty stiff penalties in some places
Agreed. I've been out a few times and fortunately never been in this situation. I have plenty of common sense and I wasn't there at this encounter but the "right' thing isn't always obvious. I'm sure he didn't mean any harm by it.

But if some guy is throwing WTF hands at me and acting like a general asshole (because I can't see anyone but am asshole throwing WTF hands) and then hit my rig I'm.probably gonna take it personally.

Maybe he only created a scene because he thought you were an asshole OP?

Like they say there's 3 sides to every story: mine, yours, and the truth. Since your story paints you out to be an indignant asshole, I wonder what his story and the truth indicate?
VTBalla34 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 10:32 AM   #10
Jeeper
 
Y-Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by whetstone View Post
Where are these rules written?
The rules are pretty common, google "trail etiquette" and you'll find countless sites posting nearly the same set of guidelines. Jeep, ATV, bikes, you name it, similar rules. The passing on an incline is one of the most important pieces in the etiquette knowledge base, sadly new off-roaders don't take the time to learn first before hitting the trail. As one who's been an active ATV off-roader I've see this all to often. I laid into one guy who came down a narrow trail even though my son had already started up the hill. Resulted in him having to stop in a very bad spot and forced me to head up the hill to help him out nearly rolling our ATVs.


This is the basic rule of the Incline...
Passing on an Incline: Vehicles going uphill have the right-of-way. On steep inclines, the loss of climbing momentum might cause a loss of traction or an engine stall. The vehicle which is moving downhill should back up cautiously and pull over as soon as possible.

As for where, even Tread Lightly posts trail etiquette, it's not hard to find if new off-roaders will read before they jump in the drivers seat.
Tread Lightly – Sharing Our Trails: A Guide To Trail Etiquette
__________________
2011 JKU Sahara; Sahara Tan, Leather, 3.73, Auto, Hard/Soft Top, SpiderWebShade, Dead Pedal, Skid Row Foot Pegs
Y-Guy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 10:48 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
gregaf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 200
It's not like I just drove into him. It was on a wet trail that had zero bypasses at this area. I actually was a good 2 feet away from him and slid down a wet rock sideways into him. I had already stopped forward movement and it just slipped down like it was in slow motion. Our two rear tires hit on the backside then the rear flares pushed against each other. For some odd reason the front of his flare popped out and mine did not. This is around the section of the trail where it happened




I threw out the idea that the guy was a newbee because he had the top and all doors off with 33's on. Not only that but the girl that was with them told someone in our group that they were making a video on how to offroad.

Either way I told the guy that I would help put the three clips back in and he has my number. There was zero body damage, just one light scratch across the rear side of both of our rear flares. Even if, and this is a big if one of the clips is broken, you are talking about clips that are $1.99 each. So under $10 worth of damage, and you are saying that I should exchange insurance information?

The kicker is when I slid down into him my front slid off the rock and mangled my steering stabilizer.
gregaf3 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 10:53 AM   #12
Jeeper
 
jebby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,331
how well do you know your insurance. chances are if a call was made about an offroading incident your are both in trouble and may have cancelled policies..... most don't look kindly on offroading
jebby is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 11:14 AM   #13
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RVA/Tri-Cities
Posts: 64
$10 of damage isn't even reportable in the aspect of doing a full crash report, at least in Virginia, you have to meet an estimate of $1500 in damage. It is still good to give insurance info...you don't want him to claim a "hit and run." Plus, I'm assuming the trail is on private property? It's more annoying than anything and I don't think it will go farther than fixing that equipment.
99fenix is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 11:14 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
gregaf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebby View Post
how well do you know your insurance. chances are if a call was made about an offroading incident your are both in trouble and may have cancelled policies..... most don't look kindly on offroading
haha, short of rolling mine I would not call the insurance company. Every piece of trail damage is an excuse to upgrade something.


I actually tried to take a picture of the damage on mine and you cannot even see it in a picture. Either the flash washes it out, or it does not even show up. I could inflict the same damage with a scotchbrite pad.

My whole gripe was that the guy put himself into a bad situation and flipped out like I just put my bumper through his door. Jesus your on a wet trail, stuff is going to happen.
gregaf3 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-29-2013, 12:52 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
terry44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 20
If he was wheeling through that stuff and got pissy over a scratch he needs to park that thing in the garage. Its not if but when your gonna scratch your ride. I wouldn't have came down that hill until all of your group was up it, but if you had slid into me I would have seen that as an opportunity to upgrade my flares no biggie.
terry44 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-26-2013, 06:34 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
fourty4magjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Erie
Posts: 1,730
I'm on te ops side with this one. If you don't know the rules you don't belong on the trail go back to the mall where you only have to worry about someone's door hitting your jeep. And the one who got hit would have no chance making a claim to insurance and couldn't file a hit an run. He could try but wouldn't happen no way. Hope he calls you back! The least you could do is explain the situation better to him and fix his poor flair if he is that upset about it
__________________
/I ,[_____], Goodyear duratrac 33x12.5r15s
I---I_ -olllllllo- 4" currie lift, savvy arms.
()_) ()_)—o-)_) Cragar or Procomp soft 8s pioneer deck with polk db series speakers
fourty4magjr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 12:37 AM   #17
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
6InARowMakesItGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: right behind you
Posts: 1,863
i know trail etiquette isn't exactly law, but if you imagine like they are the op is not at fault. if a person blows through a stop sign at an intersection where you aren't required to stop, if you hit them it's not your fault because they didn't obey the law. if he did want to get insurance companies involved he'd probably have to lie to them. they don't usually cover off road situations or race tracks and things of that nature. neither insurance company could prove the other driver is at fault because there is no actual law governing that situation even though we all know it wasn't the op's fault.
__________________
2003 Rubicon, 4.0L, 5SPD, Custom 4.75" lift, 33" MT Baja Claws
1999 SE, 2.5L, 5SPD, sold it
PM me for wheeling in and around Northern Illinois
6InARowMakesItGo is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 01:51 AM   #18
Jeeper
 
gregaf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 200
Ha ha, I actually forgot all about this thread. The guy never called me back. I was going to get him a "hello kitty" plate frame too. I guess he figured out there was no real damage once he popped his flare back on.

After this though I will be a little bit more confrontational if someone is blocking the trail, make them try to back up over wet boulders!!
gregaf3 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 02:11 AM   #19
Jeeper
 
00tj2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 1,234
Been wheeling for quite a while and I've never heard of the vehicle traveling up hill having the right of way. It is easier and safer to back down most obstacles then it is for a vehicle to back up one. Of course there are always exceptions and that's why we get out and survey the situation and discuss it with the oncoming jeep. Not going to comment on the rest of the story, just wanted to add on this one point.
__________________
I know a lot of things, most of them are only correct in my own head...
Better to be judged by twelve then carried by six. I'm sure this is going to get me in trouble down the line
2000 sport, 5speed, 1-1/4 body lift, 3" zone, metal cloak front fenders, metal cloak control arms, 4.88, 35" cooper stt.
00tj2 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 02:44 AM   #20
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
6InARowMakesItGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: right behind you
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00tj2 View Post
Been wheeling for quite a while and I've never heard of the vehicle traveling up hill having the right of way. It is easier and safer to back down most obstacles then it is for a vehicle to back up one. Of course there are always exceptions and that's why we get out and survey the situation and discuss it with the oncoming jeep. Not going to comment on the rest of the story, just wanted to add on this one point.
he never should have started down
__________________
2003 Rubicon, 4.0L, 5SPD, Custom 4.75" lift, 33" MT Baja Claws
1999 SE, 2.5L, 5SPD, sold it
PM me for wheeling in and around Northern Illinois
6InARowMakesItGo is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 03:06 AM   #21
Jeeper
 
n00g7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northern VT // Western Wisconsin
Posts: 1,705
Well, let's be clear with some facts:
1) not OP was complaining about inconsequential damage
2) wanted to report said damage to insurance
3) read 1 & 2 again noting that this occurred OFF-ROAD
4) since not OP went all ballistic on OP about it (never solves anything) it's unlikely that OP would play nice for a positive outcome (ran into each other on a backroad vs. driving over giant boulders) EX: I would point out to not OP that his insurance policy does not cover that activity, so he's boned regardless and should feel like reporting if he wants to shop for new insurance too. Nature of the beast.
5) therefore amateur hour, regardless of rules of the road. In the end, I generally figure the smaller party should default to pull over unless the larger party has a much better pull off spot.

I don't carry any current insurance in my autos for exactly this reason. I have it readily available on my phone, but if the actions of the incident are so minor that after a general "cooling off period" rational decisions would seem to prevail, it saves A LOT of money and time for everyone involved to just call the other person once I have it available at home some hours later. The po-po can always look it up, so NBD if it's a larger accident.
__________________
That moment when you look at a really nice JK and think to yourself, "Well I SUPPOSE I could see myself trading in my TJ for one of those, but for those ugly ass door handles."
n00g7 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 09:41 AM   #22
Jeeper
 
VTBalla34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 223
Removed. Too much flaming that I'm not really interested in
VTBalla34 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 09:53 AM   #23
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
Sounds like a teachable moment. I would urge you gregaf3, to check with the President to see if he's available to grab a beer with you and the other guy in the White House rose garden.

Seems like a good reminder to that we should:
1) Communicate early and often with others on the trail. Maybe a raised INDEX finger to signal "wait there a minute," but be sure it's clear it's your index finger.
2) Be patient with each other, remembering that we were once newbs/morons ourselves.
3) Greet others with a smile, not a WTF. (First impressions.) Even if they just pulled a dpsht move.

I would like to point out that the trial often looks quite different traveling one direction than it looks going the other way. Maybe from where he was it looked like there was a good passing spot down where you were.
Ulf001 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 12:00 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
insylem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Enterprise, Alabama.
Posts: 956
Images: 3
You bring up some points that I had never throught of before.
Trail Etiquette, and right of ways ect. I'll have to search and do some reading so that I'm not a db on the trail. (I'm still new)
Thanks
__________________
2013 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 10th Anniversary
insylem is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 12:14 PM   #25
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
freakengine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 43
Images: 3
I agree with the OP. The only thing I have to add is that communication is never a bad thing. Just talking to the other guy and letting him know what you're doing and what you expect really helps in these situations and helps to diffuse tensions. You never know what someone else's level of experience is.
freakengine is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 08:06 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
00tj2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 1,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6InARowMakesItGo View Post

he never should have started down
Correct, I agree totally.
__________________
I know a lot of things, most of them are only correct in my own head...
Better to be judged by twelve then carried by six. I'm sure this is going to get me in trouble down the line
2000 sport, 5speed, 1-1/4 body lift, 3" zone, metal cloak front fenders, metal cloak control arms, 4.88, 35" cooper stt.
00tj2 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 08:44 PM   #27
Jeeper
 
Kasandra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: GWS, CO
Posts: 22
"Vehicles going up hill have right of way by Colorado State law"

I also think that pamphlet you pick up at the Moab visitor center say the uphill has right of way also.

And common sense... That should be written in to a list of rules and guide lines somewhere!!
Kasandra is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-27-2013, 10:14 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
2resa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 279
And common sense... That should be written in to a list of rules and guide lines somewhere!![/QUOTE]

Was wondering when someone would point that out. That should be the first rule regardless of uphill/downhill, etc. If it's one's going up and one's going down, then sure abide by the written rule. But then again, isn't another rule never wheel alone?
2resa is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-28-2013, 12:11 AM   #29
Jeeper
 
capncraigagain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 99
Smile Lets all have "Happy Trails"

Never backed up a hill before. I'll have to try it a few times to gain the skills before I encounter somebody opposing me on the trail, possibly gaining the moniker "DB" or Dpsht.

Great post to get us thinking.
capncraigagain is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-28-2013, 12:45 AM   #30
Jeeper
 
jkmohican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 1,236
A lot of the climbing we do here is blind, meaning we don't know what's/whose in front of us until we're on the other side. Needless to say, I've seen some accidents, but they all could of easily been avoided if one of the guys involved in the accident was patient enough to stop and look before continuing. This story is funny because I actually nicked both my rear flares while in some tight trails against a tree, and I have the gay painted ones so the scratches are permanent. You don't see me suing the tree for the damage...

jkmohican is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC