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Old 07-12-2007, 11:11 PM   #1
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Vibrations...

at 30mph and above ONLY in 4 wheel drive. its really fast though meaning the vibrations are quick, almost like a machine. yea yea i know, i should be running 4x4 that fast anyways, but i will be almost nonstop this winter.

Any ideas?

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Old 07-12-2007, 11:13 PM   #2
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Are you dirt or pavement when you do this?

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Old 07-12-2007, 11:19 PM   #3
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ze road
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:21 PM   #4
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Not good. Don't do that. You shouldn't run 4wd on pavement.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:26 PM   #5
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well i knowwww. but im going to HAVE to in the winter and want to get it straightened out before then. do you guys think that it is because of the pavement?
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:27 PM   #6
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yes!!!
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:28 PM   #7
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What your feeling is the drive train binding, go around a corner or a tight turn and pop goes the weakest point.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:30 PM   #8
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well i only did it for like 5-10 seconds once... gheeeesshhh. why doesnt it do it on dirt roads or whatnot?
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:42 PM   #9
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because the dirt will move and the pavment doesn't

Were you in 4Hi or 4Lo?
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:53 PM   #10
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hi. and good point there too. is there some trick to getting it past 4h? im talking like into N and then into 4lo? mine doesnt seem to budge past 4h
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:46 AM   #11
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Your lucky you could of blown up you tcase or ujoint etc.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:11 PM   #12
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hi. and good point there too. is there some trick to getting it past 4h? im talking like into N and then into 4lo? mine doesnt seem to budge past 4h
to get into N i believe you have to yank the lever to the side first, then pull back. from there you can get into 4 low.

then the fun begins when you try to get OUT of 4 low

p.s. quit using 4WD on pavement!
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:10 PM   #13
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I dont people . i did it once for like 15 secs at the most and noticed the vibes. but since we are on the subject. why does it do harm when you run 4 wheel drive on pavement?

and does anyone else have trouble getting there 4wheel drive stick to move pack 4h?
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:52 PM   #14
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i don't know all the technical explanations or terms on WHY you shouldn't use 4WD on pavement but short and simply you need to be on a slippery loose surface that gives under your tires when you use 4WD or else you will have driveline binding and then pop something breaks. pavement has no give, so something else has to give, and that something else is in your HEEP. someone please explain it better than me.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:06 PM   #15
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Its hard to explain over the internet, but ill give it a quick shot from a tablet pc.

Basically your wheels travel different distances through a turn. There is an arc when you turn, and the outside wheels spin more (travel farther) than the inside wheels etc. A normal rwd vehicle compensates for this with free floating front wheels and an OPEN rear differential (so the two wheels are independant). This is also why we switched from full time lockers to limited slips.

Now, when you engage 4wd (or a locking diff for that matter) you are LOCKING the driveline together, forcing (in our case) ATLEAST a front wheel and a rear wheel (no lockers mean only 2 wheels get power in 4wd) to travel the same distance, no matter what. The wheels are no longer independant.

On slippery surfaces, suchn as snow/ice/mud/grass etc, this doesnt matter because the ground will give and let the tires spin or slip, technically traveling a different distance.

On asphalt, there is ZERO give. The drivetrain binds up because one wheel needs to spin at say 3000rpms and the other at 2000rpms. The wheels distance is fixed, they MUST travel at a different distance no matter what, but the drivetrain is attempting to keep them both at 2000rpms. Thus, you gernade a transfer case/ujoint etc...

Straight line there are no problems with 4wd, turning is the issue.

If you put your Jeep in 4wd while going STRAIGHT at 30mph, and it vibrates, there is a problem.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:11 PM   #16
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Thumbs up

excellent explanation!
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:12 PM   #17
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Your front & rear gear ratios are different say 4:11 rear and 4:10 front. I believe that is so the front end pulls just slightly. Then you have the differentials at each end. Depending on the type of diff it will also bind between the axels. All of this will stress the whole drive train when used on pavement or any fixed hard surface, like rocks.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:00 PM   #18
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^yes^
even going striaght it wont work roght b/c they have different ratios front and back, why? i have no idea, but they do
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:25 PM   #19
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4.10 and 4.11 is not enough to cause an issue going straight for 10 seconds. Obviously, I do NOT encourage driving in 4wd on the street when its not snowy etc. but its not going to cause a problem. The Jeep was designed to have a shift-on-the-fly 4HI for snow driving on the street. Regardless wether it was snowing, raining, hailing, dry, or pigs falling from the sky, if you are driving straight, there is the same stress on the drivetrain while in 4wd no matter that the road conditions are. The only time during a 5 second 4wd-on-the-asphalt run that would be a problem, is during a turn.

Think about it. Why would Jeep put gear ratios that are so far off that you cannot engage 4WD above 10mph in the Jeep, and then say shift-on-the-fly untill 55 in the manual? Driving straight is NOT going to be a problem.

The only thing I can think of, is if the YJs had a different setup that was not shift on the fly, but even Penguin_in_a_cj's CJ is shift on the fly, so even that isnt really feasible.


Again, If you have vibrations when ONLY in 4wd, and you were NOT turning when these vibrations occured, you have a problem. Since its only in 4WD, the problem is obviously between the transfer case and the front knuckles. My first guess would be front U-Joints.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:27 PM   #20
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you guys are the greatest. very informative. Now you have all sparked my interest for knowledge of the drivetrain and you must feed it now. Check the new thread.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:34 PM   #21
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at 30mph and above ONLY in 4 wheel drive. its really fast though meaning the vibrations are quick, almost like a machine. yea yea i know, i should be running 4x4 that fast anyways, but i will be almost nonstop this winter.

Any ideas?
At these speeds on pavement you WILL get vibration, period.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:38 PM   #22
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sorry for knocking you down on your 100,000th post. maybe if you would have read my mind and told me all this earlier today i would have kept mum.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:45 PM   #23
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At these speeds on pavement you WILL get vibration, period.

I dont, nor did my 97 before a shop put 3.07s in the rear and 3.73s in the front.

Nor did my 2003 4x4 pick up, nor did my blazer etc. etc etc.

I am telling ya george, unless there is a major difference from a YJs drivetrain to a TJs drivetrain, or you are over-exagerating the vibration, there IS a problem with the front half of your 4wd.

In fact, just to make sure I wasnt going crazy, I yanked my Rubi into 4WD at 50 WHILE GOING STRAIGHT for 3 seconds just to double check. No extra vibration, no crying or bitching from the Jeep at all. Seriously George, check that front end bud.

Wheres Jerry and Mr. C and all the other techs on the board? I feel so alone!!
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:47 PM   #24
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im assuming it would be the front becuase when 4 wheel rive is engaged, the front axle is engaged? no?

also, could it be the ANGLE of the drive shaft with the lift in there?
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:13 PM   #25
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im assuming it would be the front becuase when 4 wheel rive is engaged, the front axle is engaged? no?

also, could it be the ANGLE of the drive shaft with the lift in there?
Could absoluetly be. It is the same theory as the rear, only must people dont pay as much attention to front vibrations, since you are usually not going fast enough to notice. Since you are in buffalo, you are going to be using 4Hi at 40-45 mph for numerous MONTHS, and need to find out what the problem is. since you have a YJ, I cant tell you anything specific, only generic automotive stuff. Hopefully someone will chime in, but you may want to copy and paste this post in the YJ forum.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:20 PM   #26
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I dont people . i did it once for like 15 secs at the most and noticed the vibes. but since we are on the subject. why does it do harm when you run 4 wheel drive on pavement?

and does anyone else have trouble getting there 4wheel drive stick to move pack 4h?
Simply because if it was so easy, and you shift it into 4 Lo at 55 mph, you'll go right through the windshield.

To get into N (Neutral), and then into 4Lo, you have to come to a complete stop. DO NOT DRIVE IN 4Lo ON ANYTHING BUT LOOSE DIRT, SNOW, or ICE, PERIOD. Even then, you don't need it for ice or snow, because you don't need the torque. I've only used it when driving up very steep dirt climbs, for more torque, and when coming down, for braking. It's s also good when pulling someone else out who is stuck.

When it comes to 4Hi, USE IT ON EITHER DIRT, SNOW, or ICE, and "NEVER" ON DRY PAVEMENT.

As to why? The front tires need some slippage, when making turns and such. The same goes between the front tires vs. the rear.

A Wrangler is not an All Wheel Drve (AWD), but rather a 4 wheel drive. There's a difference.

An AWD runs on all surfaces, wet or dry, because of special clutches which prevents any binding.

A standard 4 wheel drive does not.

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