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Old 08-27-2013, 04:47 PM   #481
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At Bangingears, sorry dude. No doubt, your stories are very interesting to read, but I'm not buying it. All I think about is the movie, "The Sixth Sense." I'm a skeptic and I am going to have to see it to believe it. Can you grab one of them next time you talk to one and take a picture? Or maybe blast one in the face with a proton pack and trap it in a containment unit?
No one is forcing you to believe what he is saying, just enjoy it.

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Old 08-28-2013, 04:35 AM   #482
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I was at a Chinese buffet one time and near me was a young African American girl with her young son. They didn't look to have much and she had a deeply tired gaze. As I was getting up to leave, this very well dressed, handsome older black man walks in, over to her table and puts a pile of money in front of her. She looked shocked but he just smiled, turned and walked out. I was throwing my trash out when he left so I was out the door seconds after him but there was nobody outside. It gave me the chills and I still wonder what it was exactly that I witnessed.

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Old 08-28-2013, 04:38 AM   #483
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Might have been something in the Chinese food
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #484
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I was at a Chinese buffet one time and near me was a young African American girl with her young son. They didn't look to have much and she had a deeply tired gaze. As I was getting up to leave, this very well dressed, handsome older black man walks in, over to her table and puts a pile of money in front of her. She looked shocked but he just smiled, turned and walked out. I was throwing my trash out when he left so I was out the door seconds after him but there was nobody outside. It gave me the chills and I still wonder what it was exactly that I witnessed.
That's a cool story, my family always says that Angels walk among us and I believe it!
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:27 PM   #485
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This thread is an great read. Not on the trail but here goes...

Not much to contribute here, and I never really believed in ghosts or anything until one night. When I was living with my parents in my early 20s, I used to get home late and crash on the couch in the basement. Lights out, TV on, and then wake up in the middle of the night and either turn off the TV, or my dad would occasionally come down and turn it off for me.

Again, never a believer of this stuff until one night, passed out on the couch I all of a sudden woke up to the TV turning off....and I was freezing, my hairs were standing up, and I looked up and saw a black silhouette standing by the TV which was near a basement window. The only light was from the moon shining in, so I said "dad?" expecting my dad to respond. Nothing. So at this point I'm staring at this figure from about 4 ft away. I asked again, "Dad?" and it slowly started to move away as if it was walking across the room. Now I'm an extremely deep sleeper and its hard to wake me up, my wife hates this about me. I'm completely wide awake lying down, watching this figure walk away as I keep calling out for my dad and nothing. I'm pretty much shitting my pants here cause I'm 110% sure someone is in the room with me, and again I'm freezing with my hairs standing straight up. I watch this thing walk into another room and I jump up and turn all the lights on, and run upstairs to check on my parents and sure enough, both my parents are fast asleep. Needless to say, I didn't go back downstairs and I slept in my own bed upstairs than night, and for the next month or so.

Never saw that figure again, nor do I hope to see it again, but I remember that night like it was last night.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:36 PM   #486
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Went to check on my tree stand and found buzzards nesting on it. Good clear kill zone. It's a sign!!!!
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:36 PM   #487
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Toucan, man that story gave me chills reading it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:07 PM   #488
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Than are dreamt of in your philosophy....

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:44 PM   #489
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Not "on the trail", but....

I come from an old Sicilian family that had plenty of supernatural stories. I always consider myself a skeptic, but there were some strange things that occurred at the house I grew up in (my dad still lives there) that I can't explain.

Several people claim they saw a "ghost" in the house. It was a two story that wasn't too old, built in the late 40s. The ghost was often the same "man", wearing a wife beater and dark slacks. A younger cousin saw him twice, asking my mother on two separate occasions "who is that man?". At the time, my dad was the away on deployment, and I was the oldest boy in the house, at about 7 years old. Another time, she saw the same man shaving in a bathroom that was at the end of a hall.

My mother would sometimes wake up exactly at 3:33, and claimed she saw a dark figure standing in her doorway. The first time it happened, her screaming woke me up. The second time it happened, she told me she was too afraid to scream. She claimed it looked like just a shadow, but was darker than the already dark hallway.

I always took these with a grain of salt, and thought there was some reasonable explanation. Kids with overactive imaginations, waking form a bad dream (or now known sleep disorders like "night terrors" or "sleep paralysis"....

But there were two incidents I couldn't explain, both of which happened to me. Once, when I was about 7-8, I woke up extremely cold. I went to pull up my blanket, and noticed that it wasn't on the bed. I checked, and couldn't find it at the foot of the bed, or on the floor. I turned on the light, and noticed that the bed was stripped down to the fitted sheet. No blanket, sheet, or pillow in sight. I woke my mom, asking her what happened to my sheets. She came in and helped me look, and couldn't find them, either. After about 5 minutes or so of looking, she went to the kitchen to get a drink, and there were all the sheets and blankets, all neatly folded with the pillows on top, right on the kitchen table. I wasn't that neat of a kid that I could fold all of the sheets so perfectly. Sleepwalking is the only explanation I can think of, but I had never sleepwalked before, or since.

The other incident happened was when I was 18. I was writing a college paper on the computer at my parent's house (good old monochrome Commodore Colt!) late at night. I finished around 3 am, printed the paper, and went to leave to go back to school, only about 1/2 an hour away. The house has a small foyer at the front door, which goes up some steps to the main level. There is a railing looking down, and the archway into the kitchen is about 8 feet from the railing. My parents always kept a small light on in the kitchen for getting drinks, snacks etc.

As I stood on the foyer, getting ready to go outside, I looked back up the stairs into the kitchen, for some reason. I saw some type of weird atmospheric disturbance, like the heat waves you see rising from the highway. It was in the kitchen, or the other side of the archway, close to the sink. I tried to figure it out for a few seconds, and suddenly the hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up. I looked at it for a total of about 5 seconds or so, when suddenly, this "disturbance" was right at the railing above me. It is hard to explain because I really didn't see it move, rather, it was like the kitchen suddenly got further away. I really get the chills just thinking about it. I watched it for a few more seconds, and it just kind of "faded" away.

Maybe my eyes were just tired from staring at a green monochrome monitor for hours, but I've never forgotten it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #490
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Atmospheric disturbance is a good way to describe that. My parent's house was built in the 1860's and your story reminds me of something I experienced there. There are tons of stories from that house so I will share them all eventually. So, my bedroom was on the second floor and directly on the opposite side of my door were the stairs. Directly at the bottom was my father's office which was very creepy. It always cold, your hair stood up, you'd hear whispers, etc. One night a buddy of mine and myself had this terrible feeling there was something in the hall. Feeling brave I went to investigate and at the bottom of the stairs was this thing that I can only describe as swirling, greasy, smog. I just stood there starring for a few seconds until this tendril emerged from the side of it. Suddenly the smog shot up the stair rail and hit me in the chest. I immediately had this wave of hopeless depression fall over me, it was like nothing I've ever felt. I also began to dry heave. I ran back to my room and my buddy began to dry heave as well. After a time the heaves and sadness passed and I've never seen that thing since. To this day my friend won't talk about it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:10 AM   #491
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Toucan, man that story gave me chills reading it.
You and me both!
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:18 PM   #492
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I found a body out near Temple Mountain in an old lean to. He looked like he was sleeping, but I don't believe he ever woke up. He was just lying there, eyes closed, on his back, laying on top of a sleeping bag. The arid climate had given his body a mummified look and there were minor signs of animal damage to the body around the extremities. I saw his backpack and went through it and his driver's license was expire by 3 years at the time I found him. There was no sign of foul play and he looked at peace so I left him there and continued on to Moab. Never called the cops, never reported it to anyone.

Wife and I were in Utah last summer and I tried to find the place again. I had no clue where to go, how to find the place, or even if I was on the right side of the mountain. I've always thought of a death like that as being a very peaceful way to go.
Did you at least keep the things you touched? Your finger prints are all over this guys stuff now. What happens when someone else rolls up on this body and calls the police?
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:27 PM   #493
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My husband and I were on our way up to the mountains after our wedding and stopped by a antique store since we haven't been to it yet. After 20 minutes or so we asked one of the employees if there was anything with a dark history. We were told no, but the building used to be a apartments with a dark entity, which now housed the furniture section. My husband and I went into the apartment and didn't feel anything. I went back in 15 minutes later and say in the enclosed porch area. I asked a few questions and didn't hear anything. Then my right leg started to get that tingling feeling so I asked if whoever is with me to make my left side tingling. No more than 10 seconds later, the left side leg got tingling. I then asked if he or she could touch my arm. The back of my neck got the tingling feeling and felt like there was a hand lightly running back and forth. I immediately left to tell my husband. Yes I did go back and you've got to think that this is an old building where every step and footfall is heard. The third time I went back to the porch, I was looking down at his phone to start the recording and when I looked up, there was a person, full bodied, sitting and rocking in the living room near the fireplace. Somehow I got the chills because I never heard her come in. Granted I couldn't see her face, but could describe her completely. I walked toward the back of the porch for a couple minutes and decided to leave. The woman was gone. Never heard her leave. Still not sure what I saw.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:37 PM   #494
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There is a nicely maintained confederate cemetery close by with some nice trails nearby. When ever I stop by I always feel at ease and peaceful.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:03 PM   #495
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I have this cooler. It's an old, ordinary plastic cooler that I have had for a long time. It really is exceptionally ordinary except for one thing: It makes a signature creeking sound when it is opened.
I love this cooler. I can be camping with a boatload of folks and, amidst a late-night cacophony of nonsense, I can hear, from a distance, the tell-tale creek of my cooler letting me know that someone is scavenging my stash for a beer.
The voice of the cooler would go unnoticed to me, or at most as a minor annoyance, if it were not for a very cool night I spent camping in northwest Colorado.
In 2001, I took my six month old Jeep on a mountain and desert state trek after being laid off with a severance package.
I left the Teton area of Wyoming one day, passing through a sliver of Idaho and into northwest Colorado before it was time to find a place to camp.
My map indicated a camping area, near a reservoir, up in some hills not far from the highway I was following; so I made my way there. I looked about the place and saw nothing very interesting.
I did come upon about 6 pelts, from what I thought might be muskrats. They were stripped clean of flesh and turned inside-out. I thought it was strange and I assumed that they might have been illegally taken and ditched to avoid approaching authorities.
I don't know anything about furs but I could tell that they were very nice and could see how they might be valuable. Being a hunter I wanted to get them to someone who might be able to conserve or use them; but I thought better of that and kept looking for a campsite.
It was a rather nice area, if barren of forest and trees. I set up camp on a hill overlooking the reservoir. I was completely alone.
Following my daily routine that I had established early in my trip, I cooked, cleaned, sat down with a six-pack and an atlas, and began to ponder my next days journey. I had no plan.
It became dark, I grew tired. Then a set of headlight beams started tracing around the sky as a vehicle made its way up the access road and appeared on the opposite side of the lake from me. It wound partway around the lake until it stopped after some maneuvering. I could see headlights pointing onto the water and figured out that they were unloading a boat and some gear. After a few minutes, the commotion stopped, I heard the truck doors close, and the truck started moving and began to head up my way.
I could tell that I had been noticed, and the folks in the truck were coming to check me out. It was an uneasy couple minutes for me, alone, unarmed, no communications and my whereabouts unknown to anyone. I had considered vacating my site to an observable distance but decided to hope for the best and be the friendly traveller.
The truck approached and the driver courteously switched from the headlights to parking lights and parked; I heard a "hello" as the occupants got out and approached.
There were two guys and they repeated their greeting and walked up to me. I returned the greeting and we talked for a while.
They heard about my trip, expressed admiration for the endeavor and explained that they were going to be fishing in the reservoir for a few hours.
Before moving on, one of the guys said "do you like trout". I said "absolutely" and he walked away as he said "alright" with some emphasis.
They drove down to the boat and disembarked as I went back to my chair, thinking of my sleeping bag and camp mat. As I let myself wind down from the recent encounter I noticed a crimson glow outlining the hills and wearily wondered what I was looking at; hoping it was not any cause for interruption of my imminent snooze.
I tried to let my relaxed state of mind take over as I stared into the fire and failed to avoid questions as to what might be causing the glow in the sky over the hills.
The deep red hue had me assuming it was a fire somewhere but my mind went through a host of other options before I had to look up again. It was growing slowly and unsteadily, and I had to rule-out fire as the cause because it was so intermittent.
Then I noticed that it was moving in rose colored waves and sheets. Originating strongest at the skyline the colors weakened towards the center of sky as the waves rolled and lapped up against the dark sky as if it were a sparkling black sandy beach at night at the edge of a sea of luminescent blood.
After a few moments I realized that I was looking at a completely red Aurora Borealis; something I did not know existed. I was dumbstruck with awe at what I was seeing. I had never seen the Northern Lights before and had imagined that I never would; but here I was watching great scarlet splashes, spokes and spikes striking at the star filled sky with unbelievable speed; revealing a perspective which confirmed the fact that all this luminous noise was occurring at a tremendous distance from my location.
After a while, I realized that I was not breathing and my chest was tight. I was gripped by a tension that I had never experienced before, a feeling I would not have expected or imagined unless I had just met my maker. I made several attempts, as time passed, to relax, and enjoy this cosmic show as if it were produced for my entertainment.
My soul was clearly not convinced about the entertainment angle I was trying take on the spectacle; anxiety and tension continued to build. Before I realized it, 2 hours had passed and I may have had three sips of my beer. Suddenly I let out a Huge exhausted sigh. The brilliant show in the night sky had worn me down, exhausting me physically and emotionally from the tension and tumultuous beauty I was witnessing. I was spent and went to bed, dismayed that I was turning my back on a phenomena that I would probably never see again. As I immediately fell into an exhausted sleep I was briefly concerned that if something should happen during the night, around my tent, I would slumber through it, oblivious until it was too late. And then I slept, deeply.
At some point in the night my consciousness was ever so slightly aroused by a creeking sound followed by a thump. That's all I remember from my sleep as I woke the next morning, yawning and rubbing my eyes and trying to mentally reconnect my brain to my legs and feet; I had slept very deeply.
In due course I was out of my tent and slowly fussing around, preparing for breakfast. I opened my cooler, and the creeking movement of the lid reminded me of the sound I heard during the night. As I was trying to get my sleepy head around the noise that seemed like a faint dream, I reached for a package in the cooler that I couldn't identify. I unpacked one freezer bag from another and realized that there were five dressed rainbow trout inside.
It took a few minutes to realize that I had not bought and forgot about them. Then the previous nights puzzled pieces came together and I had a most delicious and thankful breakfast for the next three days, compliments of some Colorado fisherman who must have had a fantastic night fishing and enjoying the northern lights.

Whenever I hear my cooler open up, I smile
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:16 PM   #496
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^ that was the most descriptive story i have ever read in my life!!!!
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:17 PM   #497
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^ that was the most descriptive story i have ever read in my life!!!!
Are you being kind? Did I over do it?
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #498
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^ no such thing as over doing it! Bonus points for using my favorite word. Crimson.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:43 PM   #499
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^ that was the most descriptive story i have ever read in my life!!!!
Thanks Will!
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:45 PM   #500
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Lol thank you for the entertainment. I felt like i was there!
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:38 PM   #501
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SilverTJ, awesome story!
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #502
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Wow that was a great read. Very well done made me feel like I was there.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:36 PM   #503
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Awesome thread...I'm up to page 7 but have this story to relate.

Background

My Mother's family is from northern Newfoundland, Canada. The men fished in the summer, logged in the winter and in the spring, repaired their boats and gear before fishing started up again.

My Grandfather left school at the age of 8 to fish with his Father and brothers.

When he was in his late teens or early twenties, my Grandfather had paired up with his older Brother and in they would take their boat across the Straits of Belle Isle to fish on the south coast of Labrador. Each night they would sleep in their open boat (tied to a makeshift wharf) with a canvas tarp jury-rigged as a shelter. They would fish, "on the Labrador" for weeks at a time and then return to the island at the end of the season. The timeframe we're discussing would have been the late 30s to early 40s.

Motorboats of that era looked like this...



...so that gives you an idea of how rugged these people were.

Even back home in the remote outport communities, they didn't have regular access to medical care. Nurses from England lived in larger communities spread out at intervals and if someone got sick in a smaller outport, they would have to send a boat to retrieve the nearest nurse - people died waiting for help to arrive - it was just the way things were.

I knew I had a Great Aunt (Grandfather's sister) who'd passed away many years before and my mother was later named after her.

Custom then was when someone died, all the curtains in the house were closed until the funeral.


The Story

In the mid-nineties, I was home on leave and visiting my Grandparents to have lunch. They'd long since moved from the ancestral community up north.

Our family never told "ghost stories" and being stout Anglicans, never believed in the occult, or even entertained spirituality of any kind. Think of Rev. MacLean's household in A River Runs Through It - yeah, my Grandparents were about as hippy as that! LOL

So anyway, mid-nineties, having lunch with my Grandparents.

Out of the blue, my Grandfather starts telling us all about one of the fishing trips, "up on the Labrador".

The night before they were planning to sail home, Grandfather had a vivid dream.

He dreamt...

...that when they turned the point into their home port, they saw all the curtains drawn on their parents' house. When they got to the wharf, instead of being greeted by dozens of people, one of their brothers greeted them alone and told them their sister had died while they were away. It was a complete surprise because she was young and hadn't had any known medical issues.

When they woke up the next morning, Grandfather related the dream to his brother, who scoffed at him. They set off and sure enough, the rest of the day unfolded just as Grandfather'd dreamt it...right down to the specific brother meeting them alone on the wharf.

After he told us the story at the lunch table...we sat there in silence. He finished his meal and enjoyed his tea like nothing had happened...he was so matter-of-fact about it all.

I truly believe it'd unfolded like he'd related, but he never analyzed it and only ever spoke of it that one time...
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:20 PM   #504
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This is the first time I have decided to read through this thread. Been reading for about an hour, and now I have almost an urge to tell about what happened to me as a kid.

I was about 7 or 8, living inNew York. Our house was a "shared" 3 story house. It was like a townhouse but im not really sure what its called. My family lived on the first floor, and my aunt and her family lived on the third. This lady we all new and were friends with lived on the second but thats irrelevant.

Anyway, I was spending the day upstairs for a change, I think my parents were busy working so I was spending my time doing typical kid things. Around night time, I had decided I wanted to stay the night in their living room. It was a decent sized room with only one entrance through this small hallway that connected to the bedrooms on the left and the kitchen and entrance door on the right end of the hall.
It was about 11 or so when I turn over and focus on that hallway for some reason. All the lights were off so it was dark. But my eyes adjusted to the light. I started feeling cold as I saw this extremely tall black figure in the hall coming from the kitchen side on the right. I was frozen, I couldn't move or do anything when I realize that it was not touching the ground. I wanted to yell, cry and everything, but I couldn't and I couldn't stop staring at the figure. It had stopped for a second at the T intersection right in front of the living room.(im tearing up right now) it then seems to slowly move towards the bedrooms and I start worrying even more. It disappears past my line of sight and I slowly regain my senses. Im laying there for minutes trying to rationalize it, just trying to convince myself that nothing is wrong. I conclude that it was my aunts husband who always came back from work around that time.
I become calm, and try to sleep. Not even 2 minutes later the kitchen lights turn on, and I hear my aunts husband walk towards the bedroom and I see him in that same intersection. I started crying quietly, and eventually fell asleep.

Sorry for it not being trail or jeep related, but its almost an urge I feel within me to tell this. This really has affected my entire life as I'll never know what that was.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:48 PM   #505
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This happened when I was in 7th grade. I had a friend over at my house. He was really into things like ouija boards and stuff like that, and would tell me stories, but I didn't really believe anything he said. He told me this story of how he and his friend were using it in his basement and a spirit threw a laundry basket across the room, and I was just like "yeah, right"

Well this time he brought a ouija board over to my house. We set it up in my bedroom which was in the basement. We were sitting on the floor, and created a triangle of candles around us. These were votive sized candles in votive holders. The votive holders were just orange round glass - kind of spherical.

We started using the board and asked the spirits to let us know if anyone was there - and the word "fesh" was spelled on the board, we assumed this was the spirits name - I assumed my friend was moving the hand piece because I was not.. my friend was also the kind of person that would try and scare me or trick me... so I had that in the back of my head thinking it was all BS.

Next we decided we wanted "fesh" to show himself - with our hands on the board, my friend said "Fesh, show yourself, show that you are here" - and I followed up with a "but please don't break anything".

Not 2 seconds later, one of the glass votive holders cracked and split in two.
It was the defining moment in my life where I started to consider that this sort of stuff could be real and scared the shit out of both of us. I was unable to sleep with the lights off for a few months.

---------------------------------------

This one was on the trail - sort of

Another scary experience I had was when a group of friends and I went to an abandoned TB clinic / camp in the middle of the woods here in Maine, in the middle of a pitch black night. The place had been abandoned for several decades and was completely over grown.

We looked in a few of the "camps" that were scattered in this "community" of sorts - some of the floors had fallen into their basements and you could see tunnels that, according to one of my friends, connected all of the buildings together. There were bed frames, weird metal racks, some hobocamp style things, and a few areas where buildings had been burned down.

We were all scared shitless the entire time we were there, as we started walking back through the brush, bushes and trees back to our vehicles, one of us shined our flashlights off into the distance - and revealed a guy wearing a flannel shirt just standing about 50 yards away, staring back at us and watching us. It was the most bone-chilling experience we have ever had. We were close to the vehicles at this point and booked it back and drove off as fast as possible. This guy wasn't near the vehicles, or between us and the vehicles, he was off further into the woods and it didn't make any sense.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:09 AM   #506
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Ever hear a rabbit scream? pretty terrifying.
Owls and some type of Heron IIRC can make calls that sound like a woman or child screaming...
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:42 AM   #507
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Read thru a bunch of the posts on here... Good thing I don't have to wake up early tomorrow.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:55 PM   #508
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This wasn't on the trail, but it was on the road, and it was definitely weird so I guess it still qualifies...

My wife and I were headed from Las Vegas to San Bernadino to one of our favorite camp grounds pulling our travel trailer. We decided to pull off and stop at a gas station to get some water and snacks for the road. If anyone is familiar with the area, this was the Shell station on the west side of I15 at the Jean exit. Anyway, this was around dusk. I pulled in next to the pumps as I wanted to top off the tank, and my wife runs in to get the water and snacks. This rice racer pull up to the pumps on the other side of me with a guy and a girl in it. He gets out of the car with a camera and starts taking pics of the girl as she gets out of the car. She's dressed in a mini skirt, short top, and heels. She starts doing this strip tease as she's pretending to pump gas while he's snapping pics, and she ends up completely nude except for the heels. This took all of about a minute. She then picks up her clothes and jumps back in the car. I'm standing there like WTF just happened? As the guy walks back to the drivers side of the car, he tells me to look on (un-named) web site for the pics, and speeds off.

About this time, I hear my wife, laughing her ass off, getting back in the truck. I asked her if she just saw that, and in between laughing she nods yes. Needless to say, when we got back to town I went to that web site. It's one of those amateur "Nude in Public" porn sites. Never did find her pics though... If you're that curious, PM me and I'll reveal the site.

John
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:04 PM   #509
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Something similar happened a few years ago as a friend and I were returning to Red Rock after going to the campground at the top of Rocky Gap. A photographer had a female posed on a rock by the parking lot at the end of the pavement with just a pair of bib overall cutoffs. She wasn't topless at that point, but I'm sure she was after we went by.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:27 PM   #510
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Something similar happened a few years ago as a friend and I were returning to Red Rock after going to the campground at the top of Rocky Gap. A photographer had a female posed on a rock by the parking lot at the end of the pavement with just a pair of bib overall cutoffs. She wasn't topless at that point, but I'm sure she was after we went by.
The Vegas Valley must attract that kind of activity. A few years ago, my wife and I and another couple were exploring Valley of Fire SP. There's a really neat area in there that looks like you just stepped into the Flintstones. Anyway there were a bunch of cars parked at the trail head which is not unusual. As we walked down the trail, we came across a rather well dressed man. He stopped us and told us there was a professional photoshoot in progress up ahead, and that the models were going to be nude. He said basically if we might be offended, not to continue down the trail. None of us would have been offended but we decided to give them their privacy anyway.

John

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