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Old 07-06-2014, 01:21 PM   #1
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Wrangler to be Cheapened?

I was reading USA Today .. today. I came across an article interviewing Fiat about their plans for the existing Jeep line, specifically the Wrangler. What I read was a little discouraging. They are considering lightening the body and frame as well as the transmission and engine in order to improve fuel economy. Sure, Jeep has its roots in a light weight battleground platform...but what they are talking about here is making the Wrangler less rugged in favor of economy. This would over all weaken the usefulness in many situations...not to mention making it harder to find parts for older Jeeps. I knew it might be a problem allowing folk who did not understand the Jeep tradition to operate and own the Jeep line-up. I remember having a Fiat parked in our drive for many years because we could not find parts for it - this did not endear me to Fiat much ..and I was terrified when Fiat took Chrysler and the Jeep brand. I have been hoping for the best for Jeep because of my love for the brand and tradition. I will write Fiat/Jeep and relate to them my thoughts on the subject and hope that thusly I can keep them on the right track. They need to know there is a community of enthusiast like no other automotive fan base out there - and they need to know how not to mess that up. The link to the article below:

Jeep may make Wrangler lighter, less powerful

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Old 07-06-2014, 01:36 PM   #2
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This trend has been going on since the federal government instituted CAFE regulations. Its nothing new nor does it have anything to do with Fiat or any other of the automakers.
The auto industry tried to fight it off but the tree huggers won. This is a result of the apathy of the consumer years ago, no one said a thing when these laws were enacted and now it is too late. Writing Fiat/Jeep is a waste of time because their hands are tied because of the apathy of the American public.

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Old 07-06-2014, 01:52 PM   #3
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because of the apathy of the American public.
This^

Explains 99% of why we are in the shape we are today.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:05 PM   #4
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This trend has been going on since the federal government instituted CAFE regulations. Its nothing new nor does it have anything to do with Fiat or any other of the automakers.
The auto industry tried to fight it off but the tree huggers won. This is a result of the apathy of the consumer years ago, no one said a thing when these laws were enacted and now it is too late. Writing Fiat/Jeep is a waste of time because their hands are tied because of the apathy of the American public.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! BUT, it is not too late to fix the situation we are in as a Country! We have to start at the top and impeach the President and hold him accountable for the violations of law, and trust, he has perpetrated on the American people. We then have to elect leaders who share the values that this Country was founded on and who will DEFEND the Constitution this Country was built on! Leaders who are not afraid to make the difficult, and unpopular, choices that are necessary to right the ship....second rant today...need less caffeine or more Jeep time...
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:30 PM   #5
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Obama didnt cause this. This was in motion years ago.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:38 PM   #6
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Elected leaders making unpopular choices, you say. Think about it.

The welfare class runs government now. It's a huge conflict of interest that people on government support get to vote. That's how you get Obamacare, Obamaphones... Crack baby tax credit... Free stuff... Always other people's money. Etc.

You're worried about a lightweight Jeep? This is the *big problem* as you see it?
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:53 PM   #7
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Enjoy what you have now, Soon we'll all be driving shitty little cars like the Russians have, tinker toys if you will, and the elite ruling class such as the Al Gore's, Obama's, Collins, and so on we'll all have nice big cars built of steel, as the important people need to be taken care of, they know what's best. This is our future, unstoppable I think. Good thing I'll be dead in 20.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:56 PM   #8
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These laws are why you live in a welfare state. It started long before Obama , but I don't disagree he has to go. What we have created is an auto industry that doesn't care about selling cars to the common man but to selling for max profit. They have to too make up for all the air bags ,safety equipment , furl mileage and emission controls that we as a people allowed to become law. The only to do this is to repeal ALL legislation pertaining to the auto enacted after 1965 and we all know that ain't going to happen.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:01 PM   #9
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I as well see the current decay of the American product. A lot of the issues in the market today stem from the previous Democratic Party signing NAFTA. That essentially injected cancer into the American Economic System. The Obama Administration is/has been super-spreading this cancer at a exponential rate. To add on mis-use of executive power is the tip of the sword thrusting deeper into the demise of the American Culture. As far as Jeep ruining the Wrangler, well I contribute that to the majority wanting a fuel economic, sleek standard SUV. If you were to look into the design of the jeep in 2017 the body design drastically changes.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:22 PM   #10
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Um...I don't get what the problem is. They want to make the Wrangler lighter and put a smaller engine in it. Wouldn't the lighter weight allow a smaller, and I guess less powerful, engine feasible? And wouldn't we all welcome better mileage? The article doesn't even spcifically say the new engine will be less poweful, just smaller.

I'm not for the government deciding what fuel efficiency standards should be. That's what the free market is for. When people want better mileage, they'll make cars with better mileage. But I'm not going to condemn the new Wranglers based on an article that is 8 paragraphs long and spends a third of it's length talking about he Mustang.

And half the members here wax poetic about the TJ but it's lighter and underpowered compared to the JK. So what's the problem? Maybe the new one will be a giant turd but I'll withhold judgement until someone more reputable that USA Today pronounces judgement.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:43 PM   #11
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Fly- I agree that light and smaller engines are not the primary concern of mine, to a point. After all if we go back to the beginning, the Bantam Jeep and the willys were super light and boasted a small 4 banger. I think were the concern comes, is when regulation makes the jeep less efficient as you stated. I read on Jeep news that the new wrangler will incorporate a long arm travel suspension and a three speed transfer. So I think the platform for the wrangler will be better for all around use. I am just concerned over changing the body style.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:49 PM   #12
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Lighter in 1941 vs. lighter in 2016 are 2 different things. A 60 horse motor would push the Bantam about 50mph. Today a 60 horse motor would get you killed unless its in a motorcycle. With todays safety and emission standards there is no way you could make a 2000 lb. vehicle with a 60 horse motor and make it safe it would be way underpowered. If you remember emissions is what killed the air cooled VW.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:20 PM   #13
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From what I understand they want to go with aluminum for the body and frame. I living in the rust belt can't wait, bring it on. And before someone starts talking about how aluminum isn't strong enough. If the can build an engine out of aluminum they can build a frame and a body out of it as well. There are many lightweight aluminum trailers that hold up just fine.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:26 PM   #14
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From descriptions, it will probably resemble this...

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Old 07-07-2014, 09:00 AM   #15
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From what I understand they want to go with aluminum for the body and frame. I living in the rust belt can't wait, bring it on. And before someone starts talking about how aluminum isn't strong enough. If the can build an engine out of aluminum they can build a frame and a body out of it as well. There are many lightweight aluminum trailers that hold up just fine.

I'd like to see more cars with carbon fiber. Imagine how light the doors would be if they were CF?

And the price that places charge for carbon fiber is robbery. It's really not as expensive as they want you to think. I've vaccum molded some carbon fiber before, and it's actually CHEAPER than building it out of steel sheeting.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:20 AM   #16
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When I was referring to lighter with 60 horsepower, it was time period specific. yes a modern jeep with a go devil motor would barely move. BUT if a modern jeep were to have a modern period four banger, then it work. now if jeep plans on using aluminum to save weight, then it will compensate with reinforcements. In the end, does it really matter. To us die hard jeep fanatics, we will change everything we want to make it our own in the end. Which is the most beautiful point of owning a jeep.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:36 PM   #17
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I'd rather they go lighter, smaller and more efficient than going the way of the Hummer, making Jeeps bigger, heavier and less efficient to try to lure big SUV owners to get one. The JKU is about as big as I'd like to see it but if they trimmed an inch or two here and there, shed a few pounds and added a bunch of off road gadgets like a 3 speed TC, I'd like that.

And smaller engines don't mean less powerful. I mean in the 70s and 80s V-8s were struggling to make 280hp. Now they are pulling that easily out of V-6 engines and even 4 bangers. More gears would allow you to use a little less power more effectively and less weight would make it moot anyway. With computer control, they can do all kinds of magic with engines.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:06 PM   #18
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IMO, some are extrapolating too much negativity from this particular article. There may some negative changes in the future but this article does not reference any of them.

There is nothing wrong with a lighter Jeep. The current steel body is not pillar of strength so an Aluminum alloy can't hurt. A new 8 speed transmission, what is wrong with that.

There is also rumors of a diesel which many seem to love.

This reminds me of the complaints before the JK was released. "It won't be a Jeep anymore. It will be too big and slow. It won't fit between trees and rocks. The 4.0 will be gone for ever ... "
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:11 PM   #19
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This reminds me of the complaints before the JK was released. "It won't be a Jeep anymore. It will be too big and slow. It won't fit between trees and rocks. The 4.0 will be gone for ever ... "
I'll take my 4.0l before a 3.8l any day of the week.
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:49 PM   #20
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I'd rather they go lighter, smaller and more efficient than going the way of the Hummer, making Jeeps bigger, heavier and less efficient to try to lure big SUV owners to get one. The JKU is about as big as I'd like to see it but if they trimmed an inch or two here and there, shed a few pounds and added a bunch of off road gadgets like a 3 speed TC, I'd like that.

And smaller engines don't mean less powerful. I mean in the 70s and 80s V-8s were struggling to make 280hp. Now they are pulling that easily out of V-6 engines and even 4 bangers. More gears would allow you to use a little less power more effectively and less weight would make it moot anyway. With computer control, they can do all kinds of magic with engines.
hell i have 370 horsepower in my v8

and people claim the muscle cars in the 70s were faster than what we have.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:38 PM   #21
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So lighter jeep with a smaller, most likely more efficient engine, is a bad thing?? The current curb weight is between 3800-4100lbs. That is a disgrace!!! I will take an all aluminum jeep over a steel one anyway. More conclusions have been jumped too on this new jeep then I can count.
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:36 AM   #22
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I came across this article today. It's from back in May but I thought it was interesting (if vague) reading.

The next Jeep Wrangler might be aluminum - Road & Track
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:11 AM   #23
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Aluminum unibody is terrible. I hit a bump on the freeway with my Honda Civic. Long story short, the impact (so hard it made my windshield wiper switch drop down and wipers activate) caused dimples at each corner of the moonroof. It totally bent the unibody, especially the front strut tower which directly impacted the bump. I'll do my best to avoid unibodied vehicles from now on. Seriously, I will avoid them like the plague. Though I don't think the Jeep will be aluminum unibodied. Aluminum frame, could be.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:09 AM   #24
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Aluminum unibody is terrible. I hit a bump on the freeway with my Honda Civic. Long story short, the impact (so hard it made my windshield wiper switch drop down and wipers activate) caused dimples at each corner of the moonroof. It totally bent the unibody, especially the front strut tower which directly impacted the bump. I'll do my best to avoid unibodied vehicles from now on. Seriously, I will avoid them like the plague. Though I don't think the Jeep will be aluminum unibodied. Aluminum frame, could be.
Id like to see the size of this "Bump" good luck with the unibody ban since every car produced is unibody minus trucks and some SUV's
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:12 PM   #25
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I have a hard time believing that this honda civic incident happened. EVERY coupe and sedan on the road have been unibody since 1990s or so. Some were unibody in the freaking 70s.

I have done some super stupid stuff to cars before, and have never seen anything like that happen, at all. at all.

I jumped my jeep 3 feet off the ground on several occasions. Wonder how the unibody jeep will handle that...LOL.
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:16 PM   #26
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I have a hard time believing that this honda civic incident happened. EVERY coupe and sedan on the road have been unibody since 1990s or so. Some were unibody in the freaking 70s. I have done some super stupid stuff to cars before, and have never seen anything like that happen, at all. at all. I jumped my jeep 3 feet off the ground on several occasions. Wonder how the unibody jeep will handle that...LOL.
Exactly, AND it takes a 20 ton frame machine to pull a unibody car around. I can tell you this, its alot easier to pull a full frame vehicle than it is a unibody
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:07 PM   #27
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Id like to see the size of this "Bump" good luck with the unibody ban since every car produced is unibody minus trucks and some SUV's
It was basically the size (height) of a small speed bump. I believe they made an asphalt patch on the shoulder where the two sections of highway (one an overpass and the other a level section of highway) connected. The patch was on the shoulder of the highway. I had to veer onto the shoulder because the truck in front of me dropped a bucket (of something) from its bed. It was either collide with the bucket or steer clear onto the shoulder. Unfortunately, I didn't anticipate the shoulder having that bump/patch.

I know most cars are unibody, which is why I'll never drive another car. If not a Jeep, I'll get a truck. More than likely a Dodge.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:17 PM   #28
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It was basically the size (height) of a small speed bump. I believe they made an asphalt patch on the shoulder where the two sections of highway (one an overpass and the other a level section of highway) connected. The patch was on the shoulder of the highway. I had to veer onto the shoulder because the truck in front of me dropped a bucket (of something) from its bed. It was either collide with the bucket or steer clear onto the shoulder. Unfortunately, I didn't anticipate the shoulder having that bump/patch. I know most cars are unibody, which is why I'll never drive another car. If not a Jeep, I'll get a truck. More than likely a Dodge.
I call bullshit. It takes more than just a "speed bump" to twist up a unibody car.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:17 PM   #29
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I have a hard time believing that this honda civic incident happened. EVERY coupe and sedan on the road have been unibody since 1990s or so. Some were unibody in the freaking 70s.

I have done some super stupid stuff to cars before, and have never seen anything like that happen, at all. at all.

I jumped my jeep 3 feet off the ground on several occasions. Wonder how the unibody jeep will handle that...LOL.
You serious? LOL

Maybe it's just the design of the 8th generation Honda Civic, because it happens A LOT with the 8th generation Civic.

You can Google this for days:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...ve-happen.html

But, there's no doubt that the unibody frame on my car was twisted/torqued because of that impact (and it was at highway speed). I mean, imagine an impact strong enough to move your windshield wiper switch to another detent. The unibody damage is not only evident by the dents. The windshield gap is different on each side. The alignment is out of spec on that side (although thankfully it still drives straight). The hood gap is different on each side. Oh, and I forgot it also bent the wheel.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:21 PM   #30
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I call bullshit. It takes more than just a "speed bump" to twist up a unibody car.
Tell you what. Have your friend record you driving a unibodied car and hitting a speed bump at 60 mph. Post the video on the forum.

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