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Wrangler to be Cheapened?

4K views 54 replies 29 participants last post by  Gunner 
#1 ·
I was reading USA Today .. today. I came across an article interviewing Fiat about their plans for the existing Jeep line, specifically the Wrangler. What I read was a little discouraging. They are considering lightening the body and frame as well as the transmission and engine in order to improve fuel economy. Sure, Jeep has its roots in a light weight battleground platform...but what they are talking about here is making the Wrangler less rugged in favor of economy. This would over all weaken the usefulness in many situations...not to mention making it harder to find parts for older Jeeps. I knew it might be a problem allowing folk who did not understand the Jeep tradition to operate and own the Jeep line-up. I remember having a Fiat parked in our drive for many years because we could not find parts for it - this did not endear me to Fiat much ..and I was terrified when Fiat took Chrysler and the Jeep brand. I have been hoping for the best for Jeep because of my love for the brand and tradition. I will write Fiat/Jeep and relate to them my thoughts on the subject and hope that thusly I can keep them on the right track. They need to know there is a community of enthusiast like no other automotive fan base out there - and they need to know how not to mess that up. The link to the article below:

Jeep may make Wrangler lighter, less powerful
 
#2 ·
This trend has been going on since the federal government instituted CAFE regulations. Its nothing new nor does it have anything to do with Fiat or any other of the automakers.
The auto industry tried to fight it off but the tree huggers won. This is a result of the apathy of the consumer years ago, no one said a thing when these laws were enacted and now it is too late. Writing Fiat/Jeep is a waste of time because their hands are tied because of the apathy of the American public.
 
#4 ·
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! BUT, it is not too late to fix the situation we are in as a Country! We have to start at the top and impeach the President and hold him accountable for the violations of law, and trust, he has perpetrated on the American people. We then have to elect leaders who share the values that this Country was founded on and who will DEFEND the Constitution this Country was built on! Leaders who are not afraid to make the difficult, and unpopular, choices that are necessary to right the ship....second rant today...need less caffeine or more Jeep time...:happyyes:
 
#6 ·
Elected leaders making unpopular choices, you say. Think about it.

The welfare class runs government now. It's a huge conflict of interest that people on government support get to vote. That's how you get Obamacare, Obamaphones... Crack baby tax credit... Free stuff... Always other people's money. Etc.

You're worried about a lightweight Jeep? This is the *big problem* as you see it?
 
#38 ·
The welfare class runs government now. It's a huge conflict of interest that people on government support get to vote. That's how you get Obamacare, Obamaphones... Crack baby tax credit... Free stuff... Always other people's money. Etc.
Sigh..these idiots.

Welfare class runs the government? Really? So the corporations that lobby literally billions into our congress, are they helping the public? Comcast & Verizon literally buying the FCC and changing the internet. Corporations like GE that have paid less in taxes this past decade than you have. State senators receiving millions from mining corporations to frack in certain areas and destroy ground water. Almost every single state's government is bankrupt paying out pensions, ones that the union lobby pays out vast sums to they reps not to touch. But no... the lolly black welfare mom is ruining the country. BTW Obamacare is actually working. Despite Baynor's best efforts and millions of taxpayer dollars spent to end it...It's actually lowering premiums, giving coverage to thousands who weren't able to receive insurance prior and hospitals/insurance companies are actually receiving higher profits.

Welfare is not ruining this country. The trillions spent overseas where we have dispensed "freedom" is what has bankrupted the nation.

And WTF are Obamaphones?

Go easy on the Glenn Beck and Fox News pal, they are doing you a disservice.
 
#7 ·
Enjoy what you have now, Soon we'll all be driving shitty little cars like the Russians have, tinker toys if you will, and the elite ruling class such as the Al Gore's, Obama's, Collins, and so on we'll all have nice big cars built of steel, as the important people need to be taken care of, they know what's best. This is our future, unstoppable I think. Good thing I'll be dead in 20.
 
#8 ·
These laws are why you live in a welfare state. It started long before Obama , but I don't disagree he has to go. What we have created is an auto industry that doesn't care about selling cars to the common man but to selling for max profit. They have to too make up for all the air bags ,safety equipment , furl mileage and emission controls that we as a people allowed to become law. The only to do this is to repeal ALL legislation pertaining to the auto enacted after 1965 and we all know that ain't going to happen.
 
#9 ·
I as well see the current decay of the American product. A lot of the issues in the market today stem from the previous Democratic Party signing NAFTA. That essentially injected cancer into the American Economic System. The Obama Administration is/has been super-spreading this cancer at a exponential rate. To add on mis-use of executive power is the tip of the sword thrusting deeper into the demise of the American Culture. As far as Jeep ruining the Wrangler, well I contribute that to the majority wanting a fuel economic, sleek standard SUV. If you were to look into the design of the jeep in 2017 the body design drastically changes.
 
#10 ·
Um...I don't get what the problem is. They want to make the Wrangler lighter and put a smaller engine in it. Wouldn't the lighter weight allow a smaller, and I guess less powerful, engine feasible? And wouldn't we all welcome better mileage? The article doesn't even spcifically say the new engine will be less poweful, just smaller.

I'm not for the government deciding what fuel efficiency standards should be. That's what the free market is for. When people want better mileage, they'll make cars with better mileage. But I'm not going to condemn the new Wranglers based on an article that is 8 paragraphs long and spends a third of it's length talking about he Mustang.

And half the members here wax poetic about the TJ but it's lighter and underpowered compared to the JK. So what's the problem? Maybe the new one will be a giant turd but I'll withhold judgement until someone more reputable that USA Today pronounces judgement.
 
#11 ·
Fly- I agree that light and smaller engines are not the primary concern of mine, to a point. After all if we go back to the beginning, the Bantam Jeep and the willys were super light and boasted a small 4 banger. I think were the concern comes, is when regulation makes the jeep less efficient as you stated. I read on Jeep news that the new wrangler will incorporate a long arm travel suspension and a three speed transfer. So I think the platform for the wrangler will be better for all around use. I am just concerned over changing the body style.
 
#12 ·
Lighter in 1941 vs. lighter in 2016 are 2 different things. A 60 horse motor would push the Bantam about 50mph. Today a 60 horse motor would get you killed unless its in a motorcycle. With todays safety and emission standards there is no way you could make a 2000 lb. vehicle with a 60 horse motor and make it safe it would be way underpowered. If you remember emissions is what killed the air cooled VW.
 
#13 ·
From what I understand they want to go with aluminum for the body and frame. I living in the rust belt can't wait, bring it on. And before someone starts talking about how aluminum isn't strong enough. If the can build an engine out of aluminum they can build a frame and a body out of it as well. There are many lightweight aluminum trailers that hold up just fine.
 
#15 ·
I'd like to see more cars with carbon fiber. Imagine how light the doors would be if they were CF?

And the price that places charge for carbon fiber is robbery. It's really not as expensive as they want you to think. I've vaccum molded some carbon fiber before, and it's actually CHEAPER than building it out of steel sheeting.
 
#16 ·
When I was referring to lighter with 60 horsepower, it was time period specific. yes a modern jeep with a go devil motor would barely move. BUT if a modern jeep were to have a modern period four banger, then it work. now if jeep plans on using aluminum to save weight, then it will compensate with reinforcements. In the end, does it really matter. To us die hard jeep fanatics, we will change everything we want to make it our own in the end. Which is the most beautiful point of owning a jeep.
 
#17 ·
I'd rather they go lighter, smaller and more efficient than going the way of the Hummer, making Jeeps bigger, heavier and less efficient to try to lure big SUV owners to get one. The JKU is about as big as I'd like to see it but if they trimmed an inch or two here and there, shed a few pounds and added a bunch of off road gadgets like a 3 speed TC, I'd like that.

And smaller engines don't mean less powerful. I mean in the 70s and 80s V-8s were struggling to make 280hp. Now they are pulling that easily out of V-6 engines and even 4 bangers. More gears would allow you to use a little less power more effectively and less weight would make it moot anyway. With computer control, they can do all kinds of magic with engines.
 
#18 ·
IMO, some are extrapolating too much negativity from this particular article. There may some negative changes in the future but this article does not reference any of them.

There is nothing wrong with a lighter Jeep. The current steel body is not pillar of strength so an Aluminum alloy can't hurt. A new 8 speed transmission, what is wrong with that.

There is also rumors of a diesel which many seem to love.

This reminds me of the complaints before the JK was released. "It won't be a Jeep anymore. It will be too big and slow. It won't fit between trees and rocks. The 4.0 will be gone for ever ... "
 
#21 ·
So lighter jeep with a smaller, most likely more efficient engine, is a bad thing?? The current curb weight is between 3800-4100lbs. That is a disgrace!!! I will take an all aluminum jeep over a steel one anyway. More conclusions have been jumped too on this new jeep then I can count.
 
#50 ·
Exactly !!

But the problem, if it is bad, is not US Regulations. It is the people buying the JEEP.

Jeep used to be a fringe SUV for people who did not mind a well ventilated, noisy, rough riding go anywhere, anytime 4x4. Thanks to the JKU it now has the fastest growing sales numbers of any vehicle in North America... AND most of those buyer want it to be lighter, more efficient, better connected.... etc. The buyers are no longer off roaders wanting to modify it. They are soccer Moms and Dads in suits who want a daily driver to get to the mall and the climbing wall.

Happens every time and the JKU was the JEEPs demise.
 
#23 ·
Aluminum unibody is terrible. I hit a bump on the freeway with my Honda Civic. Long story short, the impact (so hard it made my windshield wiper switch drop down and wipers activate) caused dimples at each corner of the moonroof. It totally bent the unibody, especially the front strut tower which directly impacted the bump. I'll do my best to avoid unibodied vehicles from now on. Seriously, I will avoid them like the plague. Though I don't think the Jeep will be aluminum unibodied. Aluminum frame, could be.
 
#25 ·
I have a hard time believing that this honda civic incident happened. EVERY coupe and sedan on the road have been unibody since 1990s or so. Some were unibody in the freaking 70s.

I have done some super stupid stuff to cars before, and have never seen anything like that happen, at all. at all.

I jumped my jeep 3 feet off the ground on several occasions. Wonder how the unibody jeep will handle that...LOL.
 
#26 ·
I have a hard time believing that this honda civic incident happened. EVERY coupe and sedan on the road have been unibody since 1990s or so. Some were unibody in the freaking 70s. I have done some super stupid stuff to cars before, and have never seen anything like that happen, at all. at all. I jumped my jeep 3 feet off the ground on several occasions. Wonder how the unibody jeep will handle that...LOL.
Exactly, AND it takes a 20 ton frame machine to pull a unibody car around. I can tell you this, its alot easier to pull a full frame vehicle than it is a unibody
 
#36 ·
Since the 70's people have been proclaiming the end of the jeep with the next version . They are wrong every time lol . Every iteration is better to some degree than the last
 
#39 ·
Take 'lil' blue plus electronics put that on 'Flat top' concept design with 'Stitch' concept aluminium bodywork and 'Lower Forty' concept inspired big wheels. Find a high performance, low torque common rail injection multi-fuel engine and couple that to nine speed auto box. Shoot the team responsible for the dual hemi engined Hurricane concept (on what planet was that a good idea?). CAFE fuel economy - check. No (zero, nada) loss of trail performance - check. Classic Jeep looks and Bantam heritage retained - check. Job done - just in time to compete with the Land Rover Defender replacement and the GMC, HX inspired, rumoured revival of the Hummer as a lower cost, lower weight, lower ticket item. Jeep, and Fiat, are not stupid. Every other Jeep model basks in the reflected glory of the signature model and that currently is the Wrangler. Jeep's entire future hinges on getting that right - and that means a serious golden goose preservation exercise. Sure some strange, strange people will not like better acceleration, far better road handling, going much further on a full tank, but hey, they can still buy get a rebuilt CJ-7 (or try importing a brand spanking new Mahindra 'THAR' ). Move on people - or if you cannot face the future order a JK or JKU right now.
 
#40 ·
Yep, no more choice. Can't drive what you want because of chicken little faulty science (using the term 'science' here is very generous). Soon we will all be driving lawn mowers around with plastic jeep style grills. Sadly, this is what it has come to, I was hoping I would be dead before we absolutely loose all our freedom to kooks, but looks like the kooks are winning faster than I had thought. The good news is the kooks will eventually suffer their own kookdom!
 
#42 ·
They've been making sports cars and high performance supercars with aluminum frames for several decades. The new Corvette Z06 uses an all aluminum frame that is 20% stiffer then the previous generation Z06 and holds a 650hp/650tq supercharged engine. I think an aluminum framed Wrangler will do just fine.
 
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