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Old 04-04-2014, 08:44 AM   #1
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2014 Jeep Canbus Security System

Dear Members:

Last Thursday I purchased a new 2014 Jeep Wrangler. The model I test drove did not have a security system. Because of towing options and color the model I purchased has a security system. It was a terrible mistake.

Within 12 hours and 18 miles the security system went off three times. Once in a very inappropriate situation and I was almost arrested. I returned the car to the dealer early Friday morning and asked that they just disarm the system. After hours of nonsense I was told that it could not be done and that Pennsylvania has no "cooling off" law and therefore they would not take back the vehicle.

Friends and relatives with different makes have told me that they've had the dealer put their car into "valet" mode so that the security system won't go off.

I'm wondering if the dealer was telling the truth. Is it true that the system cannot be disarmed? If it can is there anyone out there that can disarm it?

I would be willing to spend a lot of money to have this disarmed because right now I have a brand new Jeep with only 68 miles on it that I'm not driving. I paid $35K in cash including tax and tags. The dealer said they would not take it back and would only give me $26K the next morning. Would somebody be interested in buying it?

Thanks, David J. Melich

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Old 04-04-2014, 08:47 AM   #2
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I should also note that I'm in Pennsylvania but I could take it anywhere in the Mid Atlantic region to have this disabled. If there are any members in the Mid Atlantic that know how to disarm the system I will travel to them.

Thanks!

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Old 04-04-2014, 09:57 AM   #3
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The stock sentry system went off 3 times? Explain in more detail please. What were you doing each time? Given how the new wranglers are so embedded with electronics I doubt there is a way to do what you are asking. I sense your frustration but you really haven't given any information to help you.

Bob K.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #4
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I should also note that I'm in Pennsylvania but I could take it anywhere in the Mid Atlantic region to have this disabled. If there are any members in the Mid Atlantic that know how to disarm the system I will travel to them.

Thanks!
I know that this is going the wrong way but you might consider a after market alarm such as viper, and have them set it up to suit your needs. I will say find a very competent shop and let them know your goals up front and nothing less will do.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:04 AM   #5
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And p.s. it will bypass the stock system.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:07 AM   #6
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I'd say tell the dealer to fix the problem with the alarm or sue them for not fixing it.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:10 AM   #7
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I guess the question is what were the circumstances that it went off? worst case un-marying the module should in essence disable the whole alarm system however finding that module is a whole separate process... I don't have a starscan anymore to see if the module reports on canbus as a seperate or central (integrated) module but I would take a guess that it is seperate as it would be too easy to have the alarm activated by the dealer if it required no parts...

Though with the dealer not being very helpful I would find a new one... Where abouts in PA are you?
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:15 AM   #8
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I'd say tell the dealer to fix the problem with the alarm or sue them for not fixing it.
Pretty sure that without knowing how the alarm went off that's a bad plan... if the alarm is working as designed he would lose...
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:30 AM   #9
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If the alarm is malfunctioning, the dealer should diagnose the problem and fix it under warranty, end of story. If they can't find anything wrong, there's not much you can do but wait for it to happen again or get a second opinion.

If the dealer you bought it from won't, find one that will since warranties are not dealer specific; anyone can help you.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:38 AM   #10
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Dear Members:

I'm in Chester County Pennsylvania on the Main Line. But I regularly travel to the Eastern Shore, Maryland and Delaware.

The first time it went off was at the dealer as I was getting in the car to leave. Everybody standing around said that I must have just pushed the wrong button. But I was quite certain that they were wrong then. All I did was put the key in the door and unlock the door--I didn't push any buttons. But caught up in the moment I thought maybe they were right.

The second time it went off was at a restaurant when we were getting back in the car. The third and deadly time it went off was later that night in a garden apartment complex where a local officer just happened to live 8 feet from where it went off. And I was leaving my buddy's place to go home and so there was nobody there to help me shut it off. I finally got it to shut off--but the scene wasn't pretty.

I just want this thing to go away. I don't even have it right now. I took it back to the dealer and let it sit there until the day before yesterday. Then I took it over to a buddy's who might buy it because I don't really want it anymore with this security system.

Yesterday I went (in my other 15 year old car) to a local auto radio and security specialist just to ask them about this. I talked to two techs there who seemed very knowledgeable. They both said that if they put on a more "user friendly" aftermarket system it might NOT solve the key opening problem. They weren't sure.

So I'll spend money to get this done if I know it will solve the problem. Otherwise I'm just going to get rid of it and get a Toyota FJ. I've already been to the Toyota dealer (yesterday) and they showed me EXACTLY how to use the valet mode and it's perfect. You just open the door and go. I guess that's too simple for Jeep.

Again, thank you to everybody for any help or ideas you have.

Regards, Dave
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #11
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Dear Members: I'm in Chester County Pennsylvania on the Main Line. But I regularly travel to the Eastern Shore, Maryland and Delaware. The first time it went off was at the dealer as I was getting in the car to leave. Everybody standing around said that I must have just pushed the wrong button. But I was quite certain that they were wrong then. All I did was put the key in the door and unlock the door--I didn't push any buttons. But caught up in the moment I thought maybe they were right. The second time it went off was at a restaurant when we were getting back in the car. The third and deadly time it went off was later that night in a garden apartment complex where a local officer just happened to live 8 feet from where it went off. And I was leaving my buddy's place to go home and so there was nobody there to help me shut it off. I finally got it to shut off--but the scene wasn't pretty. I just want this thing to go away. I don't even have it right now. I took it back to the dealer and let it sit there until the day before yesterday. Then I took it over to a buddy's who might buy it because I don't really want it anymore with this security system. Yesterday I went (in my other 15 year old car) to a local auto radio and security specialist just to ask them about this. I talked to two techs there who seemed very knowledgeable. They both said that if they put on a more "user friendly" aftermarket system it might NOT solve the key opening problem. They weren't sure. So I'll spend money to get this done if I know it will solve the problem. Otherwise I'm just going to get rid of it and get a Toyota FJ. I've already been to the Toyota dealer (yesterday) and they showed me EXACTLY how to use the valet mode and it's perfect. You just open the door and go. I guess that's too simple for Jeep. Again, thank you to everybody for any help or ideas you have. Regards, Dave
Do you have keyless entry?

If so, there's a sensor/switch in the door lock cylinders (or so I read) that is supposed to send a signal to disable the alarm if the key is used to open the doors. This my be malfunctioning.

If you have keyless entry, you may want to try using that and see if you have the same issues.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:44 AM   #12
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If you put the key in the door and unlocked after it was locked that is the issue right there... the alarm needs to be disarmed from the unlock button on the fob before opening the door...

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Old 04-04-2014, 10:45 AM   #13
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Oh . . . and there was actually a fourth time it went off when we were still in the car! A friend in the back seat opened the door to get out of the car and the system went off. Luckily that time we were in his driveway and his neighbors weren't home yet.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:49 AM   #14
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I guess it has "keyless" entry. But I never use that. I hate that. All I did was unlock the doors. But as soon as open the door handle the alarm goes off. And I even did it at the dealer several times--they said it was a "feature" and that they wouldn't fix it or take the car back. Even though I know they are lying because the sales manager had a definitely look of shock on his face when it happened. I even let him do it and it did it to him. I love how a dealer now calls a "defect" a "feature"!!!
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:55 AM   #15
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Oh . . . and there was actually a fourth time it went off when we were still in the car! A friend in the back seat opened the door to get out of the car and the system went off. Luckily that time we were in his driveway and his neighbors weren't home yet.
The system also re-arms itself if you get in and don't put the key in the ignition and start the car, think it's like 16 seconds or something.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:56 AM   #16
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Oh . . . and there was actually a fourth time it went off when we were still in the car! A friend in the back seat opened the door to get out of the car and the system went off. Luckily that time we were in his driveway and his neighbors weren't home yet.
That can occur under normal operation if certain things are done lol... they might seem convoluted however if you used the key in the door to unlock earlier with the rest of the vehicle locked and then proceed to lock the door manually while inside the vehicle will rearm after a min once the key is removed from the ignition... Like sitting in the car and chatting and then getting out... the opposite is true as well (getting in and locking doors but not starting ca/ key in ignition) it wont happen all the time however it's tendency to sdo so is increased by using the key in the door...

Easiest way to avoid the alarm ever giving you an issue is to never put the key in the door for any reason... use the keyless/remote keyfob to do the locking and unlocking when entering and exiting the vehicle... if you want to lock the doors once inside use the power locks... try this and assuming the alarm is operating as designed and not faulty it will never give you an issue
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:57 AM   #17
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I guess it has "keyless" entry. But I never use that. I hate that. All I did was unlock the doors. But as soon as open the door handle the alarm goes off. And I even did it at the dealer several times--they said it was a "feature" and that they wouldn't fix it or take the car back. Even though I know they are lying because the sales manager had a definitely look of shock on his face when it happened. I even let him do it and it did it to him. I love how a dealer now calls a "defect" a "feature"!!!
If you don't use the keyless entry feature, you could always pull the fuse which should also disable the factory alarm (IIRC). But at that point I would HIGHLY recommend you have an aftermarket alarm system installed, preferably with an engine/fuel cut off. Jeeps are hard to secure by nature, especially with the top down and doors off.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:59 AM   #18
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I guess it has "keyless" entry. But I never use that. I hate that. All I did was unlock the doors. But as soon as open the door handle the alarm goes off. And I even did it at the dealer several times--they said it was a "feature" and that they wouldn't fix it or take the car back. Even though I know they are lying because the sales manager had a definitely look of shock on his face when it happened. I even let him do it and it did it to him. I love how a dealer now calls a "defect" a "feature"!!!
It is a feature and it's not going anywhere... it's there because that is how a security system is supposed to operate... Just like a PC it has operating instructions that when not followed it doesn't work like it's supposed to...
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:05 AM   #19
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Here is the rest of the manual entry that covers the situation you are likely experiencing:



Other scenarios can be found when the key in door locking and unlocking occur...
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:09 AM   #20
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Dear Members:

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses. To SF Kilo: yes that's exactly what happened! And it's just a little frightening when you're getting out of your own car.

Basically I just don't want to use the pushbuttons on the key. I would like to be able to lock the car and then just open it using the key. Is this possible? I also want to be sure it doesn't happen when we're getting out of the car again.

In the aggregate I guess it just seems like this is a very UN user friendly system and the Toyota system is much better. If it can't be disabled I'm just going to get rid of it and get a Toyota FJ.

Does anybody know for sure that installing an aftermarket system and then subsequently disabling that system would enable me to just use the key to get in the car and not have it go off when I'm getting out? If so, I will take to anyplace that you suggest and have that done. I'm willing to spend money to get this solved. It would be better than losing lots of money on a brand new car.

Thanks again!
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:13 AM   #21
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Pennsylvania has a lemon law. Ask the dealer to correct it. If they give you crap, open a care case with Chrysler. 3 tries and you get a new Jeep or full refund.


Nevermind - just read the last posts. :-|
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:14 AM   #22
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I do hear where you are coming from as far as it being annoying when you have a habit of sticking the key in the door however should this small change really be an OMFGWTFBBQ situation on a $30k+ vehicle? I mean I'm 1 person and I have 4 cars... My Jeep is the only one without power locks and I bought it with the intention of it being in Florida year round with no doors... I'm sure they will take yours straight trade on a lesser model without power locks at a different dealership... Hell if I didn't just buy my jeep I'd give ya more than that crummy dealer would and so would any other dealer in their right mind... if it was truly a $35k jeep wrangler its still worth over $30k trade in with 10k miles on it... Assuming there wasn't an extended warranty in that price or some unheard of in the jeep world sticker premium... The wrangler has one of the highest resale values around...
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #23
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To MTNJeep:

I might try that. But I'm afraid (if what the other members are saying is true) that the system might actually be designed this way and Chrysler will say that this isn't something that can be corrected because it's a "feature."

If I've read the posts correctly you can't get in the car using the key. That seems like a defect to me. And by the look of shock on the employee's face when it was demonstrated at the dealer. The dealer will hide behind the fact that it was designed this way.

So I'm hoping somebody knows that the aftermarket system can be disabled or that there is a way to disable it even if surreptitiously.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:21 AM   #24
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as far as disabling it goes I will talk to my dealer, we have a very good working relationship, and see if they can lend me one with the alarm equipped for the day in their shop to try and find the module or option in the software to disable the alarm... Assuming they have one with an alarm i should be able to figure out if it can be done or not for sure...
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:40 AM   #25
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To SF Kilo:

Yes! You are exactly right. The Jeep dealer is being very unfair on the price to buy back the vehicle. The Toyota dealer was drooling over the trade. I didn't have the new Jeep with me and all they could talk about was trading it in. But without the car there they wouldn't give me a definite price. It has 68 miles on it now over at my buddy's house.

And thank you again for your help. Any information you can provide will be invaluable. Thanks again!
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:47 AM   #26
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To MTNJeep: I might try that. But I'm afraid (if what the other members are saying is true) that the system might actually be designed this way and Chrysler will say that this isn't something that can be corrected because it's a "feature." If I've read the posts correctly you can't get in the car using the key. That seems like a defect to me. And by the look of shock on the employee's face when it was demonstrated at the dealer. The dealer will hide behind the fact that it was designed this way. So I'm hoping somebody knows that the aftermarket system can be disabled or that there is a way to disable it even if surreptitiously.
It's my understanding that using the key in the door should disable the alarm as the system senses the sentry key and (if there is still) the switch in the lock cylinder will trigger the system to disable so you can get in without the alarm going off.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:54 AM   #27
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It's my understanding that using the key in the door should disable the alarm as the system senses the sentry key and (if there is still) the switch in the lock cylinder will trigger the system to disable so you can get in without the alarm going off.
Not with the wrangler... I can guarantee that 100%...
I'm staring at the 2012-13 service manual and there are no components inside the door that have the ability to read the rfid inside the key... Without that there is no way to tell if it was picked, forced open or otherwise...
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:55 AM   #28
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To Maxx143:

If the key has electronic push buttons on it does that mean it has "keyless entry?" If so then yes this car has it. But there's more going on because it went off even when we were in the car just like SF Kilo described. It's really is just pretty awful and NON user friendly. I think I might try pulling the fuse. Also, I've just received an e-mail from an engineer with a very detailed mechanical drawing of the electrical wiring and he circled a part under the dash that he says I should remove. Next week sometime when I can deal with this (Taxes come first!) I will try both pulling the fuse and this other part (he called it sren) to see if it will get rid of the problem.

Thanks again for everybody's help!
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:07 PM   #29
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LOL yea that's a hell of a solution... however it will get rid of the noise of the alarm going off... I prefer to have real solutions but if he is an engineer for jeep it might be the best way... I don't see the fuse doing much other than completely disabling the keyless entry system however I haven't gotten to looking for fuses to pull... That's a last resort in my book... Keep in mind that most vehicles in that price range built this centry use the same alarm system concept and most are included in all models
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BrowningOU View Post
To Maxx143: If the key has electronic push buttons on it does that mean it has "keyless entry?" If so then yes this car has it. But there's more going on because it went off even when we were in the car just like SF Kilo described. It's really is just pretty awful and NON user friendly. I think I might try pulling the fuse. Also, I've just received an e-mail from an engineer with a very detailed mechanical drawing of the electrical wiring and he circled a part under the dash that he says I should remove. Next week sometime when I can deal with this (Taxes come first!) I will try both pulling the fuse and this other part (he called it sren) to see if it will get rid of the problem. Thanks again for everybody's help!
Just read something in the manual (sorry, don't know how to post pics) that if I'm reading it correctly, may help:

The lock and unlock buttons on the key also arm/disarm the security alarm. It also says that if you unlock the door with the key and then lock it again, the door will be locked but the system will not be armed.

You may try this:

Use the unlock button on the key to unlock the doors and disarm the system.

Manually* lock the door and shut it.
*Do NOT use the electronic lock switch on the door as this will arm the system (per the manual) - use the button on the door by the release/exit lever.

Now, your alarm system should be and remain disarmed. If you use the key to lock and unlock the doors and do NOT use the electronic door lock button in the Jeep, you should have what you are looking for but you should note that your Jeep will not be protected by an alarm. (But the sentry key/cutoff should still give you protection as it is a separate system).

If you ever find yourself in need of having the alarm armed, just use the lock button on the key and the system will arm. Then repeat the steps above to disarm and use as you prefer.

The manual doesn't say anything about the system arming automatically; it specifically says that if you press the lock button while in the vehicle but do not put the key in the ignition, the alarm will activate in 16 seconds (grace period to allow time for you to get out) and go off if you were to open the door.

It's worth a shot.

__________________
Not just an X, a xXx, she's gonna get dirty!
'14 JKRX - Granite, 6-speed manual, soft-top, 430N, side air bags, Auto A/C. Mods: JWS8700Evo, Maximus-3 Stinger, Granite painted interior trim, 13" Antenna X, Rampage Locking Hood Latches, MC Grille Guard, Gibson Exhaust.
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