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Old 06-24-2014, 06:40 PM   #1
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4.10 gear question...newbie!

So this will come across stupid to many of you I'm sure. I know a lot about cars but not so much into gearing. I just threw on 20's with 35" tires. My Jeep actually came with these products that I pictured and want to know if I have everything I need to do a 4.1 gear install or what this stuff even is (I was told it was 4.1 from seller). What else would I need if I don't have everything and about how much is an install? I already have a AEV Pro Cal too.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:59 PM   #2
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Or now that I am doing more reading, it looks like I have a set of JK and Rubicon 5.13 gears...correct? I have two sets of full install kits? Any help is appreciated.

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Old 06-24-2014, 08:03 PM   #3
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You have an install kit for the dana 30 and an install kit for the d44. Then you have 5.13 gears for the 30 and 44. The ring and pinion will always say rubicon. Dosent matter. Ring and pinion are the same in the rear but the install kit isnt. Hence the non rubicon there.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:13 PM   #4
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And what is the difference between a dana 30 and d44?
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:17 PM   #5
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And what is the difference between a dana 30 and d44?
the dana 30 is the front axle on your jeep. The rear is the dana 44. The dana 30 has a smaller ring and pinion, and thinner shafts. Generally (in the dana world) the higher the number the more heavy duty. They are both adequate for most of the population.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:22 PM   #6
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So do I need all of this to install gears, or just one or the other? And for my setup I doubt I need 5.13 gears (20's and 35" tires). Thanks much for your help!
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:24 PM   #7
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So do I need all of this to install gears, or just one or the other? And for my setup I doubt I need 5.13 gears (20's and 35" tires). Thanks much for your help!
Yupp you need all of it. And yea 5.13's is way overkill in my opinion. Especially with the pentastar motor. Your jeeps gonna be screaming. I have 4.56 and it seems like too much sometimes. Time for 37's! Lol
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:33 PM   #8
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Up for sale they go then! Haha. Thanks again!!
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:41 AM   #9
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What year is your Jeep? Did not see it posted in the above posts. 5.13's are alittle steep with 35's for a 2012 and newer JKU. but if you have a pre-2012 JKU then the 5.13's will be perfect.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:08 AM   #10
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It is a 2012. So I should upgrade to 4.10 or higher for my 35's for sure? I drive highway a lot and haven't noticed any sluggishness at high speeds.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:06 AM   #11
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From what I have read it's a toss up between 4.10 and the 4.56. The 4.10 could feel sluggish at times depending if you are a weekend warrior, and the 4.56 at times could rev a bit high on HWY. If, you are using your jeep to tow boats, atvs, trailers...etc I have read that a 4.88 is the best way to go. Lastly, for some odd reason the 4.56's are more expensive than 3.73, 4.10, 4.88 and even 5.13s. I guess it comes down to the demand....your looking at an additional $100-150 for the entire set.

Personally, I have been considering 4.56s with 35" Tires. One thing to remember is that not all 35s are actually 35" Tall....some 35's when set on the vehicle can measure 34". So when you are inputting information into your AEV Procal, you have ensure that the measurements you are giving are correct.

Currently, I am purchasing the Rock Krawler Max Travel Lift Kit 2.5" and then installing 35's with 4.56 gears. I have heard installs for re-gearing go anywhere from $300 - $800.......

What is the standard mechanic price for re-gearing with a master kit? Could anyone please share?

Cheers!
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:41 AM   #12
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Great info, thanks! I might just stick to 4.10 gears as I don't plan on wheeling that often. I'm more daily commuter than anything and just would like the best possibly gas mileage, which that doesn't much mean anything, lol.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:22 AM   #13
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There isn't much mileage difference between 4.10 and 4.56 gears.

Do you know what gears you have now? If it's factory equipped it's either 3.21 or 3.73.

If you're happy with the way the Jeep performs as-is you may just want to leave the gears that are in the axle alone. At least for now.

I run 4.56 gears with 35's in my 2012. I started with 3.21's from the factory so I really needed to do the upgrade. The freeway RPMs are right around where they need to be and if I step up to 37's I will still be in the right range.

I wrote up a good "gears 101" page to answer a lot of the basic questions about gearing: Regearing Basics
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:26 AM   #14
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My JKU2013 has 3.21's so it definitely needs to be changed....as noted I'm leaning toward 4.56.

DERF,

What are your RPM's at 60mph?
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:44 AM   #15
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My JKU2013 has 3.21's so it definitely needs to be changed....as noted I'm leaning toward 4.56.

DERF,

What are your RPM's at 60mph?

I have a 2014 JKUR with an Automatic trans, 4.10's and 315 Duratracs.....at 60MPH I am turning 2200-2300 Rpm. at 65 MPH I turn 2500 RPM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:49 AM   #16
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338 Lapua,

Firstly, I would love a Tikka T3 in a 338. lol

Regarding your rpm's, much Appreciated! I will take note.

Conrad
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:14 AM   #17
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My JKU2013 has 3.21's so it definitely needs to be changed....as noted I'm leaning toward 4.56.

DERF,

What are your RPM's at 60mph?
I have a manual transmission and 315/70R17 Duratracs (33.48" programmed into the computer to make the speedo match the GPS speed)

At 60 I'm above 2K but not by much. At 70-75 I'm within 100 RPM of 2500 or so. It cruises very comfortably down the freeway in 6th gear and still has power to climb our very small, minor hills we have here in fly over country without having to downshift to 5th.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:33 AM   #18
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I have 3.73's from factory. At 70mph I was hitting 2400rpm. Sound right?
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:17 PM   #19
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I have 3.73's from factory. At 70mph I was hitting 2400rpm. Sound right?
Sounds about right for an automatic with 3.73 and stock 255/75R17 tires. I'd expect the manual to be slightly lower RPM. Maybe 2250-2300.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:42 PM   #20
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Well that RPM is with my 20's and 35's...
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:55 PM   #21
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Well that RPM is with my 20's and 35's...
The wheel size makes no difference. Only the outside diameter of the tire.

You can see for yourself by filling in the form here: Gear Ratio Calculator

Just pick the "Dodge WA580" for the automatic or NSG370 close ratio for 2012+ Wrangler for the manual. The transfer case is the NVG241. Then just put in your gear ratio and tire size and it will tell you everything you could possibly want to know about crawl ratios, speed at RPMs, and RPMS at speed.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:39 PM   #22
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338 Lapua,

Firstly, I would love a Tikka T3 in a 338. lol

Regarding your rpm's, much Appreciated! I will take note.

Conrad

I had a Sako TRG for a long time.....28" Hart Barrel and Leupold M1 6.5X20.

Also....at 70 MPH I am pushing 2800-2900 RPM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:59 PM   #23
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and what is the difference between a dana 30 and d44?
Attachment 1239586

^^^This will help you to understand the major difference.
For your 2012, 3.6 engine and 35s, go with a 4.56 ratio....
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:30 AM   #24
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I had a Sako TRG for a long time.....28" Hart Barrel and Leupold M1 6.5X20.

Also....at 70 MPH I am pushing 2800-2900 RPM.
TRG is a monster!

Never heard of the Hart Barrel...I'll look that up.

Do you compete?

Thanks for the RPM Parameters.

Conrad
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:31 AM   #25
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Attachment 1239586

^^^This will help you to understand the major difference.
For your 2012, 3.6 engine and 35s, go with a 4.56 ratio....
LOL I actually find this comical! Great Pic and thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:10 AM   #26
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TRG is a monster!

Never heard of the Hart Barrel...I'll look that up.

Do you compete?

Thanks for the RPM Parameters.

Conrad
I do not compete much anymore. Mostly only local Service Rifle, Silhouette (Hi-power and Smallbore), and F-Class matches. Kids soccer occupies most of my time now.

Robert Hart and Sons is a custom Barrel maker in PA. I sent the Sako to them to have the barrel and brake installed. Longer tube to get the velocity I wanted (3225 FPS with 225gr Accubond)....plus the brake tames the recoil to less than my .270.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:48 PM   #27
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One last question, if these were to install, would you need to change the carriers?
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Old 06-26-2014, 05:18 PM   #28
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One last question, if these were to install, would you need to change the carriers?
The JK version of the axles are slightly different than other versions of the axle so the answer is a little complicated.

The short version:

A Rubicon will not require a carrier change. A non-Rubicon front axle will require a change but only if you change from 3.21 gears to anything else.

The long version:

For a non-Rubicon:

The front Dana 30 has one carrier for the 3.21 gears. The other carrier fits 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, 4.88, and 5.13 gears. That's all the gears that are available. So if you go from 3.21 to anything else, you have to change the carrier.

The Dana 44 rear uses the same carrier for all gear ratios: 3.21, 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, 4.88, 5.13, and 5.38. This carrier comes from the older generation Dana 44. That older generation axle had two different carriers and you have to make sure you use the carrier for the 3.73 and (numerically) lower gear ratios. You can't use the one for the 3.93 and (numerically) higher.

For a Rubicon:

Both front and rear Dana 44 Rubicon axles use the same type of carrier for all gear sets: 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, 4.88, 5.13, and 5.38. This carrier is completely different than the carrier for the non-Rubicon Dana 44.

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