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Old 04-30-2014, 11:59 AM   #1
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Alpine / 430N missing high frequencies?

I've been reading this forum for a while while deciding what to buy, and have one kinda silly post-purchase question about the stereo.

I have a new 2014 with the Uconnect 430N and Alpine speakers. Even with the highs turned all the way up, they're not especially present. The mids are a little funky too.

I'm coming from a 2006 4Runner, and I really enjoyed the sound of the stereo in that one. I can't adjust the 430N/Alpine combo to be anywhere near as bright as the Toyota.

I'm curious - is this a limitation of the speakers or the radio? I'm really curious to hear from anyone who has swapped out the factory radio with something else and kept the Alpine speakers. Did things sound better afterward?

Thanks!

In case anyone is wondering, my Jeep is a 2014 Wrangler Unlimited Sahara with the 3.73 and Freedom Top.

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Old 04-30-2014, 12:54 PM   #2
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The issue is with the speakers, your entire system only has the 2 tweeters located in the dash.

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Old 04-30-2014, 01:46 PM   #3
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The issue is with the speakers, your entire system only has the 2 tweeters located in the dash.
Thanks!

After your response, I went looking around the forum a bit more and discovered this thread: Stock Tweeter Mod - CHEAP

Looks like they're crossing the tweeters over so high that they're effectively useless. That would explain it!
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:55 PM   #4
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It isn't just the crossover point. The entire system only has two real tweeters. If you remove your 6.5's and look at them, you will notice that they lack "real" tweeters like every other normal (aftermarket) coaxial speaker. That is a big reason as to why it sounds so muddy.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:29 PM   #5
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The front is built as a component system with mid-bass and tweeter but the tweeter is crossed over so high that it is virtually non existent in the system. A very inexpensive mod to the tweeters brings them to life.

The roll bar also has the mid-bass with NO tweeter and really sounds weak... You can put the Kicker/Mopar direct fits in the rear and do the tweeter mod in the front, add a little polyfil and it's quite a different system.

MOPAR 77KICK10 - MOPARĀ® Kicker Audio Speaker Upgrade for 05-14 JeepĀ® Wrangler JK, Unlimited JK, Liberty & Grand Cherokee - Quadratec

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Old 04-30-2014, 06:36 PM   #6
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First I did after buying my Jeep was install these, http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11096_Pioneer-TS-T15.html They fit in the tombstone without any modifications to it. You will need to cut a little off of the metal clips that come with the tweeter but it was easy.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:19 PM   #7
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First I did after buying my Jeep was install these, http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...er-TS-T15.html They fit in the tombstone without any modifications to it. You will need to cut a little off of the metal clips that come with the tweeter but it was easy.
Was there a noticeable difference just from installing these?
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:56 PM   #8
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Was there a noticeable difference just from installing these?
I am very happy with them. The music is no longer missing parts and they sound really clean. I would recommend testing your system with a CD.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Pressurized View Post
The front is built as a component system with mid-bass and tweeter but the tweeter is crossed over so high that it is virtually non existent in the system. A very inexpensive mod to the tweeters brings them to life.

The roll bar also has the mid-bass with NO tweeter and really sounds weak... You can put the Kicker/Mopar direct fits in the rear and do the tweeter mod in the front, add a little polyfil and it's quite a different system.

Good luck!
Since the fronts are Alpine components, wouldn't it be better if we simply fixed the crossover on the tweeter and then install a pair of Alpine coaxials in the roll bar and then upgrade the sub-woofer with a mono amp? I guess this way it stays all Alpine speakers.

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/spr-60/
.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Buddylee View Post
First I did after buying my Jeep was install these, http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11096_Pioneer-TS-T15.html They fit in the tombstone without any modifications to it. You will need to cut a little off of the metal clips that come with the tweeter but it was easy.
That looks very sharp!

I'm thinking I may order a pair of these now because they fit so well, along with some replacements for the lower front speakers. No matter how low the tweeters play, I'm thinking there will still be a big hole in the vocal range with the stock speakers. I might be pleasantly surprised though.

I pulled one of the factory Alpine tweeters out today and sure enough, it had a 2.2μF cap. They aren't doing a lot crossed over that high.

These Pioneers play down to around 7,000 Hz.

The stock Alpine tweets actually look like they're of a very decent build quality, but the way the enclosures are made, their dispersion is really limited. The grilles on these Pioneers look like they would allow much wider dispersion.

Does anyone know if there are inductors on the lower front speakers to limit their high end? I might just try pulling those out if they're there.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
Since the fronts are Alpine components, wouldn't it be better if we simply fixed the crossover on the tweeter and then install a pair of Alpine coaxials in the roll bar and then upgrade the sub-woofer with a mono amp? I guess this way it stays all Alpine speakers.

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
.
You certainly could as long as you get the MOPAR mounting brackets...

But I'd bet quite a lot, that the speakers in our Jeeps are not tone matched to any of the Alpine or Infinity retail speakers. So unless you are doing it just to say that you still have an Alpine system, the extra work in mounting and splicing wires, etc. probably isn't worth it.

The Kickers are direct plug and play, perfect mounting and correct connectors already installed.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:59 PM   #12
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You certainly could as long as you get the MOPAR mounting brackets...

But I'd bet quite a lot, that the speakers in our Jeeps are not tone matched to any of the Alpine or Infinity retail speakers. So unless you are doing it just to say that you still have an Alpine system, the extra work in mounting and splicing wires, etc. probably isn't worth it.

The Kickers are direct plug and play, perfect mounting and correct connectors already installed.
I had a Kicker system connected to a 730 in my Grand Cherokee SRT8.

Is a full Kicker system avallable? tweeters + mids, coaxial and sub woofer?

.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
I had a Kicker system connected to a 730 in my Grand Cherokee SRT8.

Is a full Kicker system avallable? tweeters + mids, coaxial and sub woofer?
The only full systems that I know of are for base system installations:

PWRA407 | KICKER

On my Infinity system, I went with Infinity 6.5's in the sound bar and while they mounted fine with the supplied MOPAR brackets, the bracket is much thicker and pokes the grill out more than the Kicker direct replacements.

Having now heard them both, it was not a significant difference in the sound bar. Now that my tweeters are working, that is a noticeable difference.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:04 PM   #14
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I have the 77Kick10's. They fit the front pods just fine, but don't fit the roll-bar all that well. Plus they are 4 ohm speakers instead of 2 ohm's. The best thing about them (beside the fact that they have tweeters) is that they fit behind the factory grills. The wire connectors are not that big of the deal as adapters are easily available. If I had to do it over again.....I don't know if I would get them again. I like that they are stealth, but they are still not the right speakers for the system.....at least not for the premium system.


With that said, there are not a lot of 2 ohm, co-axial 6.5's out there. Infinity and JBL might be it.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:50 PM   #15
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I put in Polk audio dxi components in front... Polk mobile monitor coaxial in rear and 2 ten inch Polk subs.....kenwood head unit and jl audio amps. To say its night and day would be an understatement. But I did replace fronts before all the rest and it made a big difference.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
I have the 77Kick10's. They fit the front pods just fine, but don't fit the roll-bar all that well. Plus they are 4 ohm speakers instead of 2 ohm's. The best thing about them (beside the fact that they have tweeters) is that they fit behind the factory grills. The wire connectors are not that big of the deal as adapters are easily available. If I had to do it over again.....I don't know if I would get them again. I like that they are stealth, but they are still not the right speakers for the system.....at least not for the premium system.


With that said, there are not a lot of 2 ohm, co-axial 6.5's out there. Infinity and JBL might be it.
If I'm going to spend the time to swap out caps and speakers I'm willing to throw more money at it.. but I want drop-ins that don't require a hack saw, hammer and drill.

Also I would only be willing to install a mono amp to drive the sub woofer.

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Old 05-01-2014, 09:51 PM   #17
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If I'm going to spend the time to swap out caps and speakers I'm willing to throw more money at it.. but I want drop-ins that don't require a hack saw, hammer and drill.

Also I would only be willing to install a mono amp to drive the sub woofer.

.
The 77KIck10's fit....but they are not perfect. I ended up putting some silicone around mine. The stock Alpine's have a tacky, thicker edge. They also have a small section about 1 inch long (near one of the tabs) that sticks up because one of the stock openings is larger than the others.

I explained it here:

Infinity to Kicker (and more) Upgrade (updates as I go)
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:07 PM   #18
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An update on mine:

I replaced the 2.2 μF caps in mine with 4.7 μF caps yesterday and the difference is pretty amazing. The highs are now very present from the Alpine tweets on the dash. Very pleased. Had to turn the treble setting WAY down.

The mid / vocal range is still lacking though so I ordered the Mopar Kickers for the dash. I don't want vocals behind my head, so I'll likely leave the ones in the sound bar stock.
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:14 PM   #19
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An update on mine:

I replaced the 2.2 μF caps in mine with 4.7 μF caps yesterday and the difference is pretty amazing. The highs are now very present from the Alpine tweets on the dash. Very pleased. Had to turn the treble setting WAY down.

The mid / vocal range is still lacking though so I ordered the Mopar Kickers for the dash. I don't want vocals behind my head, so I'll likely leave the ones in the sound bar stock.
Are the Mopar Kickers coaxial? If so, how does that impact the factory Alpine component tweeter, mid-range connectivity and sound quality in the front? Will you then have two tweeters? One crossover network in the coax... the other factory tweeter connected to what?

Does this present a mismatch? .. frequency range conflicts? unmatched sound?

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Old 05-02-2014, 12:28 PM   #20
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Are the Mopar Kickers coaxial? If so, how does that impact the factory Alpine component tweeter, mid-range connectivity and sound quality in the front? Will you then have two tweeters? One crossover network in the coax... the other factory tweeter connected to what?

Does this present a mismatch? .. frequency range conflicts? unmatched sound?

.
The Kickers are coaxial. Given the poor design of the factory crossovers, I'm not particularly concerned about a "mismatch." Clearly, whoever designed this system in the first place was pretty clueless.

The components do appear to be made by Alpine, but the crossovers are Chrysler. A friend of mine has the non-Alpine, non-Infinity stock system. We pulled his tombstone mounted tweeters out to look at them. Different tweeters, same housing, capacitor mount and connector. Less substantial design than the Alpines by far.

I'm a broadcast engineer. I design and build radio stations for a living. FM radio only goes up to 15,000 Hz, and the average 30 year old human can't hear frequencies that high. The 2.2 μF caps on the Alpine tweeters as they come from the factory make their crossover point around 14,000 Hz, which is effectively useless.

I suspect the factory Alpines in the lower dash are mid-bass speakers that don't reproduce the vocal range very well, and may in fact have inductors inline that block them (like the 2.2 μF capacitors block frequencies under 14 kHz on the tweeters.) The highs on the Kickers might be overkill, but I'm thinking I'll need to turn the highs down a bit more - worst case scenario.

Right now, even after the tweeter mod, a huge chunk of the vocal presence range is missing. The Kickers should restore that.

Bottom line, the components may have been provided by Alpine, but I can absolutely guarantee nobody from Alpine had anything to do with the crossover frequencies. This appears to have been designed by someone who knows absolutely nothing about crossovers.

So yeah, I'll have a mix of components - but I'll let you in on a secret. A lot of high end speaker manufacturers use a mix of different brand components in their speaker designs that they don't actually manufacture themselves.

It probably won't be perfect, or even close to it, but I'll most likely have some vocal presence after the Kickers go in. I heard the standard 6.5" coaxial Kickers at Best Buy a few days ago and they sound pretty darn good.
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:35 PM   #21
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One other thing - I haven't been particularly interested in pulling the lower dash mounted speakers out until my Kickers arrive. The procedure is a huge PITA. If I pull them out and find an inductor that would limit their reproduction of the vocal presence range, I'll report back with an appropriate inductor that would correct it with a value that would make them crossover properly with what the tweeters are now and return the Kickers or give them to my friend.

If they're just running full-range, I'll replace them.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:23 PM   #22
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I'm pretty sure they are full range...which is one of the reasons why I'm not sure it the factory fronts are actually components.

Of if the ARE components, they are crossed over at a stupid high level (like +12,000 hz....who runs a 6.5" driver to 12,000 hz?).

You will get highs from the front 6.5's when you install the 77Kick10's. I think when people run aftermarket systems, they tap the front speakers outputs because they are full range. It could be that the 6.5's have low pass filters on them (at 12,000 hz), but I don't remember seeing one when I pulled the pods.

If someone has their dash off on a premium system, can you trace where the tweeters are connected to? The pin-out for the amp does not show power going to the tweeters directly from the amp (not on its own channel anyway). But there is an a L/R tweeter output from the HU. What I'm not 100% sure of is if that output goes into the amp or not.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:50 PM   #23
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:50 PM   #24
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This looks like a pretty good tweeter replacement option.

Infinity tweeter upgrade / replacement... done!

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