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Old 08-12-2014, 06:53 PM   #1
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Balancing a tire and wheel, with Road Force and tire truing

There has been several Threads, with complaint of shaking in the steering wheel, at speeds ranging from 40 to 65 MPH.
This has originated in many cases, with larger and heavier tires being installed, that have a tendency to be more difficult to balance properly.

To start with, the tire needs to be positioned on the wheel, to where the least amount of weights are needed. Sometimes, just moving the tire on the wheel 180 degrees, will without any weights, improve the balance considerably!

Another issue is, where to place the weights, for the best overall balance. In other words, place them on what part of the wheel width, or split them into a four position mount, once again for the most accuracy.

So to accomplish this, you will need to have them Road Force Balanced.
One of the most popular, is the Hunter GSP 9700 Balancer. This Balancer simulates actual road conditions, by applying approx. 750 lbs. of pressure to your tire, applied from the Balancers roller. So if you want to get rid of your tire/wheel caused shakes, then this is the way to do it.
But it is more expensive, but in some cases, it will be worth it!

Not all tire Dealers have this machine available, so just do a Google Search for your area.

Click image for larger version

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^^^This is what it looks like..........

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Old 08-12-2014, 07:24 PM   #2
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I have been preaching this to people for a while and most have had great results.

My old man said they used to do this ON CAR back in the 60's and 70's, maybe into the 80's.

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Old 08-12-2014, 07:28 PM   #3
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This is being stuck up on top

I agree .. That speed range is almost always tire/wheel related. Balance issue, out of round tire , bent wheel, feathered/cupped tire due to poor alignment, rotor clips left on. I'm sure I missed something.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:40 PM   #4
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You can locate shops with this site.

http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjacobs View Post
I have been preaching this to people for a while and most have had great results.

My old man said they used to do this ON CAR back in the 60's and 70's, maybe into the 80's.
I do remember some shops using this back in the day and it actually worked very well. Sort of the way to go back then. Like you indicated the Road Force is fantastic, especially for difficult situations. The shop I go to uses it and seeing it in action is a learning experience. Kudos to Old Dogger for posting.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:54 PM   #6
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The timing of this thread couldn't be better. Thanks for starting this out and for the comments.

I was admittedly completely ignorant about road force until 24 hours ago. Recently developed a vibration and steering wheel shake. I normally rotate the tires myself but brought it to the mechanic I've used for 15 years figuring the tires needed to be rebalanced and would have him do both. Some rebalancing was needed but he said the road force was way out of spec and even with adjusting it on the wheel he wasn't sure it would be down to where it should be. I believe he said it was at 55 (lbs?) and should be about 25-26.

Since I didn't have an issue before this week and road force concept was new to me, I just had them rebalanced and thought I'd see how that worked. Definitely smoother but still have some steering wheel wobble at the speed noted by OP. Have had two other Jeeps with larger wheels and never came across this but also always kept stock wheels but now have aftermarket wheels and tires which said mechanic tends to have road force issues more often than stock wheels.

So....sounds like going back and having then road force balanced may be the ticket?
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:13 PM   #7
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I do agree turning the tire 180 degree or sometimes 90 degree or even 240 degree it does help a lot to get rid of vibration.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnJK View Post
The timing of this thread couldn't be better. Thanks for starting this out and for the comments.

I was admittedly completely ignorant about road force until 24 hours ago. Recently developed a vibration and steering wheel shake. I normally rotate the tires myself but brought it to the mechanic I've used for 15 years figuring the tires needed to be rebalanced and would have him do both. Some rebalancing was needed but he said the road force was way out of spec and even with adjusting it on the wheel he wasn't sure it would be down to where it should be. I believe he said it was at 55 (lbs?) and should be about 25-26.

Since I didn't have an issue before this week and road force concept was new to me, I just had them rebalanced and thought I'd see how that worked. Definitely smoother but still have some steering wheel wobble at the speed noted by OP. Have had two other Jeeps with larger wheels and never came across this but also always kept stock wheels but now have aftermarket wheels and tires which said mechanic tends to have road force issues more often than stock wheels.

So....sounds like going back and having then road force balanced may be the ticket?
Your Welcome!
I hope that it helps.......
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:35 PM   #9
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Road force balancing solved my shimmy that I experienced at 45-50 mph after having my tires balanced several times without success. Highly recommended if you have a shimmy or wobble (not death wobble) that is related to tires/wheels.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:29 AM   #10
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This is also the first step anyone with DW should take. Most Discount Tire shops have these units.

Many moons ago, I was a grunt in a shop and one of my "duties" was busting tires. We used to compete with each other to see who could use less weight by rotating the tire. Now a days, most shops will just stick on as many ounces or lbs of lead as needed.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:16 AM   #11
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This is also the first step anyone with DW should take. Most Discount Tire shops have these units.

Many moons ago, I was a grunt in a shop and one of my "duties" was busting tires. We used to compete with each other to see who could use less weight by rotating the tire. Now a days, most shops will just stick on as many ounces or lbs of lead as needed.
^^^It's sad to see that the pride of workmanship, has been declining rapidly.......

Fortunately we still have some Companies like Discount Tire Co., that offer quality workmanship.......
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:07 PM   #12
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I run some very large tires on my pick up truck in Alaska. They are designed for snow. The only way that I could get them balanced, without shaking my truck apart, was to have them Road Force Balanced, and it really does work!
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:16 PM   #13
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My shop balances my Beadlocks with RF but I noticed I still had some vibes/shakes. I just recently added Centramatic Balancers...they made the difference!



Click image for larger version

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Old 08-13-2014, 11:25 PM   #14
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That is a very interesting concept!!! How expensive are they?

It cost me a $100 to get my 4 RFB, but that was in Alaska, and everything is super expensive up there!
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:28 PM   #15
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$199 for 4, w tax $236 TMD.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjacobs View Post
I have been preaching this to people for a while and most have had great results.

My old man said they used to do this ON CAR back in the 60's and 70's, maybe into the 80's.
In automotive school in the early 90s, we played with that OnCar set up. Maybe seen it once or twice in the real world.

In my current shop(Nissan dealer) our balancer has that option for road force, its hardly used but works for "heavy" tires from lifted titans and frontiers. Not too many consumers even know of this option.

In real life when a wheel gets road forced bal, a steamroller comes down while its spinning on the balancer to simulate the road, it sounds and looks horrible when the roller is pushing against the tire/wheel! Haha.
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Old 08-14-2014, 05:50 AM   #17
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The tech also swings out a arm and measured runout of the wheel.
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Old 08-14-2014, 05:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister6 View Post
My shop balances my Beadlocks with RF but I noticed I still had some vibes/shakes. I just recently added Centramatic Balancers...they made the difference! See my build for more info...
As mentioned in your build thread. They do not make these for JK's. Clearance issues iirc
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:34 AM   #19
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As mentioned in your build thread. They do not make these for JK's. Clearance issues iirc
Well just one more reason to sell the JK and get a TJ! I guess they work if you want to run a spacer, I not a fan of that though.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
As mentioned in your build thread. They do not make these for JK's. Clearance issues iirc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister6 View Post
Well just one more reason to sell the JK and get a TJ! I guess they work if you want to run a spacer, I not a fan of that though.
I was not aware that they manufactured Centramatic Balancers. It is good to see that you found something that works on your TJ...... Prior to my 2013 JKR, I owned a 2003 TJ, but only ran 31s, mounted on Mickey Thompson wheels, so balancing was not a issue. And yes, I really liked my TJ, but it had the weak Dana 35 rear diff, that I never trusted!!!!!

Boy have you ever taken on a challenge, suggesting that Ken get rid of his pride and joy, (with all of his super Mods), along with that mean looking stealth appearance, and for a TJ, no, no, no, that will never happen........

I just get that feeling that his is a keeper........

You have a very nice looking TJ, and I'm sure that it also performs very well, plus you now have your tires/wheels that are in balance, so enjoy your ride.......
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:47 PM   #21
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I did own a Tj .... And a YJ. Not one of the newby jeeper guys :P
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:05 PM   #22
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I go all the way back to the 1975 CJ5 Renagade, with a 304 v8, 3 speed manual, with warn locking hubs, but I still feel like a Newby........

Maybe that's just wishful thinking, because of my age......
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:32 PM   #23
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i did own a tj .... And a yj. Not one of the newby jeeper guys
lol...
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:24 PM   #24
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Now to take tire smoothness, even to a higher level, there is what is called TIRE TRUING. Every tire manufactured has a certain amount of run out, and this just adds to somewhat of a bumpier ride, and also effects tire balance, with a end result of less tire life!

So if you are looking for the optimum smooth ride, at highway speeds, plus extended tire life, then this one will, dramatically help.
So have your tires trued, and then Road Force Balanced for perfection....

This truing is used very heavenly on the tractor trailer trucks, (18 wheeler's), and also in the Race Car Industry.

When you think about cutting some rubber off of your tires, you may say WOW, why would you even consider it! Well it actually extends tire life, because you will receive a even ride tire wear pattern, plus your tires are not building up as much heat, from flexing, so it really does help to extend life.

Attachment 1395002

^^^This is what it looks like.........
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #25
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I wasn't aware tire truing was still done looking into it.
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Old 08-15-2014, 07:32 PM   #26
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^^^Yes Ken, tire truing, (or shaving as it is sometimes called), is still alive and well today.
There are several shops in the Phoenix Metro area that offer this service.

Back in the early 60s, when I was working for Rockwell International, primarly diagnosing driveline vibrations, I also had the opportunity to operate a tire truer!

If I ever decide to go to 35s, or 37s, then mine will definitely be shaved, and then Road Force Balanced...........

Attachment 1395850

Attachment 1395858
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:37 PM   #27
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My Son purchased a set of Dura Trac tires, last Jan, that I recommended for his 4 wheel drive.
He drives back and forth between Arizona, and Colorado on business.
I asked him this week end, as to how the tires were performing. He said that they were amazing in the ice, and snow in Colorado, and handle the highway driving very well. His only complaint was tire balance. A shaking in the steering wheel around 60 mph and up. I asked him why that he didn't take them back and have them re-balanced, and he said that he just did, along with a rotation, but the shaking is still there, but not as bad.
So I introduced him to Road Force Balancing, which he never heard of. He located a local shop that offered it, and had them RFB yesterday. He now tells me that all of his shaking is now gone, for the first time with these tires. So this has now made a believer out of him.
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:37 AM   #28
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Hey Miser, I'm glad that it helped your sons ride smooth out....
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:56 AM   #29
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I have a shop near me that I use that has a Hunter GSP9700. The tech and I have had a number of conversations and he likes to get below 20 on normal car and truck tires for best results.

On my Miata, we shoot for less than 10 and that is a chore, but what a difference it makes. I also shave a new set on the Miata, but don't expect to need to on the Jeep, we'll see...

I think they have to add a module, but the StraighTrak feature will also place the tires on the vehicle in the best position to reduce tire pull. The machine calculates the amount and direction of pull in the tire and then combines them on each side to cancel each other out as much as possible. So, it's also a tire pull fixer.

Road Force Balance is KING!
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:52 PM   #30
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A balance is only as good as the tech running the machine.
I tend to be the lucky one who gets these kids that don't give a s**t
Been told
"It's a jeep, not meant for a smooth (non shaking) ride on the highway"
" those are MT's, it's impossible to balance out all vibes"
My favorite
"A lifted jeep will NEVER ride like stock again"
Not sure why this was even relevant. Just shows the kind of idiots I've dealt with.
Here's a story .. Called a local Firestone and asked if they can balance the tires on my JEEP.
Was told ok so I brought the jeep in. I'm sitting in the waiting room. I see one guy looking at my jeep. Guy #2 causally strolls over. Then 3 ....and 4
I now have 4 dudes looking at my jeep ??
Guy one comes in and says "we can't balance your tires, they're to big for our machine" lol
ITS ONLY A 35 YOU IDIOT, I KNOW DARN WELL HUNTER MACHINES CAN GO MUCH BIGGER.
He just shrugged his shoulders ... i left leaving a small (very small) strip of rubber on the way out.
Man I was pissed ... MORONS


Ok ... I have a good question for y'all
My wheels are not hub centric. I remember reading somewhere the proper way to balance a lug centric tire/wheel combo is using a lug centric adapter. Not the one size fits all cone normally used ?
Every time I ask... I get looked at like I have 7 heads

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