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Old 05-01-2014, 09:01 PM   #1
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Bump steer nightmare

2012 2dr Rubicon 6mt
(Unfortunately) rough country 4" long arm kit 10000 miles on it since November 2013
Synergy ball joints 2 weeks old
Synergy drag link 2 weeks old ( high steer)
Synergy tie rod
Jks track bar
35 nitto trail grapples

So all of a sudden it started getting a weird wander. Not death wobble but more like it is following the road ruts. It also has very bad torque steer under acceleration the steering wheel pulls left.
Get it to a shop where they find that the garbage rough country hiem ends in the front end have exploded so switch the ends out with hiem ends from rusty offroad which are substantially beefier. 4 wheel alignment all in spec. Pick it back up and it's better but still bad. Under acceleration the steering wheel still pulls left hard and actually activates the traction control. I'm at my wits end. This is my daily driver and it can't go without it. It is still wandering with the groves in the road, hit a bump and the wheel is everywhere. I'm willing to try anything within reason. The shop tried to tell me my springs were too soft and that was causing the problem and wanted to sell me 600 dollars worth of shocks and another 1000 in springs. I have a hard time believing that all of a sudden the springs are to soft and causing the problem.

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Old 05-01-2014, 09:07 PM   #2
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What PSI are your tires set at?

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Old 05-01-2014, 09:13 PM   #3
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:22 PM   #4
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You need to go through each component step by step. Start with planman's DW thread and go through the checklist.
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:09 AM   #5
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Are you running the Synergy kit w/ track bar bracket or just the drag link raised over the knuckle ?
Also, what are you running for a rear TB bracket? If you are running a front bracket raised at the axle, but nothing in the rear. What you will experience is oversteer from a negative roll axis. (Front higher than the rear)
This will almost definitely cause handling to be unpredictable like you're describing.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:06 PM   #6
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My 13 would go to the right. I had o.m.e stabilizer and went to bilstein. Drove straight but had bad bump steer. Bought the rough country dual steering stabilizer kit and another bilstein stabilizer and installed it Tuesday. Now a slight wander to the right but almost zero bump steer. Might look into it before spending 1500.00. Good luck.
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:44 AM   #7
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Bump steer is not what some people describe it as. Bump steer is when your track bar and drag link geometry is off which can cause issues at around 4" (or higher) in height. A stabilizer or dual stabilizer in no way should be used go fix any steering issues. This is just a bandaid IMO. The OP Hasn't responded. he needs to answer my question. I'm pretty sure it's a geometry issue. Either bump steer or roll center issues.
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:33 AM   #8
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I'm having the same problem. My Jeep is all over the place and scary as hell to drive. I've had it aligned and everyone says they can't see anything wrong. But it's to the point were I will NOT put my kids in it. ( steering has play in it, pulls and jerks all over the road. And constantly makes you oversteer.)
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motochain View Post
I'm having the same problem. My Jeep is all over the place and scary as hell to drive. I've had it aligned and everyone says they can't see anything wrong. But it's to the point were I will NOT put my kids in it. ( steering has play in it, pulls and jerks all over the road. And constantly makes you oversteer.)
give some details like lift, tire size, etc. and can get some advise.
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motochain View Post
I'm having the same problem. My Jeep is all over the place and scary as hell to drive. I've had it aligned and everyone says they can't see anything wrong. But it's to the point were I will NOT put my kids in it. ( steering has play in it, pulls and jerks all over the road. And constantly makes you oversteer.)
What do you have going on, lifted/stock ?
What size tires ?
Do you know your caster/toe readings?
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #11
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I have a 2.5 spacer lift that I have had on their for about 4 yrs. I had 33's but just put 35-12.50's on a couple of days ago. But it was doing it with the smaller tires, I just think the bigger tires magnified the problem. And I thought they did all that caster stuff when you get it aligned. Am I wrong about thinking that?
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motochain View Post
I have a 2.5 spacer lift that I have had on their for about 4 yrs. I had 33's but just put 35-12.50's on a couple of days ago. But it was doing it with the smaller tires, I just think the bigger tires magnified the problem. And I thought they did all that caster stuff when you get it aligned. Am I wrong about thinking that?
I did these two write-ups for the new guy. Hopefully easy to understand without all the technical BS. Well... A little bit

Quick summery. Caster is not adjustable on a stock JK. I don't know of any Spacer lift kit that corrects caster. I'm almost certain this is your problem. For $100-$130 you can buy/install a set of front geometry correction brackets. AEV or Rancho (I'm running Ranchos and will post a pic) Caster is fixed and handling improves a ton with flat front arms. All caster options are in the caster thread below.

Jeep Jk, Caster and lifting. Newby's guide to lifting your JK

Fix caster ... make your little ones happy driving in the jeep again
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:14 PM   #13
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Here's the thread. Links of where to buy posted

Rancho's control arm drop brackets
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I did these two write-ups for the new guy. Hopefully easy to understand without all the technical BS. Well... A little bit Quick summery. Caster is not adjustable on a stock JK. I don't know of any Spacer lift kit that corrects caster. I'm almost certain this is your problem. For $100-$130 you can buy/install a set of front geometry correction brackets. AEV or Rancho (I'm running Ranchos and will post a pic) Caster is fixed and handling improves a ton with flat front arms. All caster options are in the caster thread below. Jeep Jk, Caster and lifting. Newby's guide to lifting your JK Fix caster and make your little ones happy
thanks man, I had no clue about all that caster stuff. I will definatly look into this. It seems that that's probably the issue I'm having.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:31 PM   #15
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Just one question though, why would it start now and not when I installed the lift?
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:39 PM   #16
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I would also like to suggest if you have free play in the steering you have something worn out. If the tierod ends and draglink ends are tight it may be slop in the steering box. I have installed many TF BB and Generally a 2.5" BB doesn't cause issues with caster. Installing the geo brackets will definitely help but worn parts must also be searched out.
Also double check your front Trackbar bolts and bushings to make sure they are tight.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:55 PM   #17
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To the OP. If you are experiencing a torque steer effect that, indicates to me that the rear diff is out of line (cocked sideways if you will) in the frame rails. A crocked rear diff Pushing to the right will cause the front to pull left.
A few simple measurements should tell if the rear wheel alignment was done properly.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:56 PM   #18
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Keeper, on the front I have the Jks track bar with no bracket and the high steer drag link bolted to the top of the knuckle. In the rear is the one track bar with a raised bracket that came with the RD kit
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:58 PM   #19
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Auto correct is awful
OEM track bar in rear with RC bracket to raise
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:01 PM   #20
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Apologies for the delayed response I wanted to go through all the suggested scenarios first as I hate I told you so's. I went through all the DW diagnosis to no avail
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:19 PM   #21
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Keeper, on the front I have the Jks track bar with no bracket and the high steer drag link bolted to the top of the knuckle. In the rear is the one track bar with a raised bracket that came with the RD kit
With a draglink flip and no Trackbar relocation (top or bottom) you geometry is definitely off and bumpsteer is inevitable. A lower front Trackbar and SS relocation bracket will solve the geometry problem. The Trackbar and draglink must be parrallel for 0 bumpsteer.
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:54 PM   #22
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Bam You can't raise the drag link without raising the track bar. Crap ... I just sold a synergy bracket I could of got you for cheap. I had a feeling this was your problem. Synergy makes a nice bolt on option. Artec if you want a weld on.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:02 PM   #23
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Just one question though, why would it start now and not when I installed the lift?
Assumptions are never good

Agree with Photo. Will caster correction help ? Sure. How many miles do you have on the jeep ?
Ball joints, Tre's ... Has anything been replaced ?

A simple dry steer test will tell a lot. Have somebody turn the wheel 10-2 slow/fast. Feel around and listen for clucking or play. Focus on the tie rod ends and track bar here. Then make sure the bolts are torqued. Track bar = 125 ft lbs.

Ball joints on the Jk Are garbage. Add bigger tires and wheels with less back backspace guarantees early failure.
Lift one tire at a time about 3". You wand to pry up on the tire as you listen for clucking. Play will be visible if the balljoints are worn.
Unit beatings .. Same. With the tire off the ground. Grab it 9-3 and push/pull. There should be 0 movement.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:17 PM   #24
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So is it Synergy part 8055? And using that would I have to relocate the steering stabilizer as well or could I leave the dual unit as is.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:38 PM   #25
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So is it Synergy part 8055? And using that would I have to relocate the steering stabilizer as well or could I leave the dual unit as is.
Personally I would leave the dual SS unit off until the issue is fixed. Most lower Trackbar brackets I've seen also lift and relocate the SS. Not sure the synergy unit will work with your dual unit.
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:01 PM   #26
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Rid it IMO.
The synergy bracket has holes for the stab.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:16 AM   #27
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Ordered the bracket but just wondering is it possible the electro sway disconnect is disconnected? Would that not allow the same wandering steering g? How can I check for this?
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:30 AM   #28
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You are flipping the drag link right ?
I doubt your E-disco is the issue,
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JTPhoto JK View Post
I would also like to suggest if you have free play in the steering you have something worn out. If the tierod ends and draglink ends are tight it may be slop in the steering box. I have installed many TF BB and Generally a 2.5" BB doesn't cause issues with caster. Installing the geo brackets will definitely help but worn parts must also be searched out. Also double check your front Trackbar bolts and bushings to make sure they are tight.
quick question, I can grab my steering shaft between the fire wall and gear box and rotate it probably a good 45* degrees. Engine is off and it moves the steering wheel but obviously not the tires or anything else. Does that mean my gear box is worn out or is that normal?
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:01 PM   #30
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As Motochain has touched on it really sounds like with the lift kits it's affected your caster angle that they say is not adjustable but once you start changing ride height it could cause what your experiencing. Think of how a shopping carts front wheels shake and wobbles as you go faster.

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