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Old 11-29-2013, 03:29 PM   #1
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Caster wobble seems unsolvable

I've been having caster wobble(or DW) problems with my '07 Sahara unlimited. Each time it happens (at 50mph and up) i have to come to a complete stop because of how violent it is. It happened first when hitting a mild bump on the highway and then a second time at the exact same spot some weeks later. The next 3 times it occurred was after i got it stuck in the mud. Couldn't get over 50 mph without it happening with or without a bump. Didn't drive it on the highway for over 3 weeks until i was able to get it into 4 Wheel Parts here in Nashville who specialize in this problem. First thing they did was take it on the highway and she drove fine. They couldn't find anything wrong, loose, with play etc in the front end. The only problem was the steering stabilizer was leaking fluid and needed replaced, though we both understood that wouldn't completely solve the problem. Went ahead and had it replaced. I drove it with a tech and nothing happened for the second time. Its completely stock other than the new SS(which is white in the pic). It's been fine since then but i still don't know when it might happen again and it makes driving the highway a lot more risky and nerve-racking

I've began to noticed as well that i have a leak on my front right tire thats been happening since the first wobble. Could it be an axle seal leaking? I've attached pictures of said problem. Has anyone out there ever had this problem before?

Completely stock wrangler
Uncontrollable wobble
Specialist can't find anything
Leaking fluid on the right tire?


That attached pictures should be below

I've been studying often to figure it out and have had no luck. Any help is GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you!

Nick
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:52 PM   #2
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Assuming you have taken care of the track bar bolt problem.... mud in the wrong places (wheels) can cause some hellacious out-of-balance.

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Old 11-29-2013, 06:07 PM   #3
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Axle seal won't cause a wobble. A bad u-joint will damage a seal though. Check your u-joints.
The Track bar is the number one culprit for DW.
Shops don't seem to understand this and it's been going on with solid axle vehicles forever,
To check the u-joints. With jeep parked, put your hand over the joint, grab the tire and rock back and forth. Feel for any play. You can use a pry bar too. Lightly lift up on the axle end and look for play in the joint.

Steer test -Look and feel around everything up front while somebody turns the wheel 9-3 and then quickly 11-1 You will see if the track bar has any movement beyond normal bushing deflection.
It's a very good idea to pull each bolt and look at the metal bushing sleeves. The stock bolt is threaded 100% and can wear the sleeves over time. Then check the holes for ovaling. There's a sticky thread that discusses a bolt upgrade for your track bars and CA's.
For the 4 tie rod ends. You should see them move up and down when doing the steer test. A large pair of channel locks works to check for up and down movement also.

Its a good idea to check the ball joints and hub bearings. Do this by getting a tire 2-3" off the ground. Use something sturdy like a shovel and lift up on the tire. Bad ball joints are noticeable and you can hear then clank. For the hub beatings, grab the tire 9-3 and forcefully push and pull.

Finally the Ca bolts/bushings. Go around with a torque wench and first make sure they're tight. The front axle bushings are known to cause issues on older jeeps.

Get this fixed ASAP. Driving with DW can cause other parts to go bad. Parts that you might have just replaced like the SS.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:05 PM   #4
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Soumds like a steering stabilizer problem to me....
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubisteph View Post
Soumds like a steering stabilizer problem to me....


Only a mask my friend.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post



Only a mask my friend.
Yeah, just noticed that the stabiliser looks new.... unless its not tight in place.... just throwing ideas for things to watch.... ??!
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rubisteph View Post
Yeah, just noticed that the stabiliser looks new.... unless its not tight in place.... just throwing ideas for things to watch.... ??!
It is new. The shop replaced it. The problem, if he does have DW. The stabilizer can only damper so much. I've heard of people blowing through stabilizers trying to fix DW. It will help but he needs to find out what the underlying cause is.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:11 PM   #8
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I hear ya.... makes sense that a stabiliser could only be partly masking the wobble caused by a defective part...
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:19 PM   #9
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Many times the DW will blow out the steering stabilizer and naturally techs will say the problem is the blown out stabilizer. Not realizing what the real issue is.
The biggest problem is that every bout of DW takes it's toll on all front end suspension and steering parts making it even harder to diagnose the actual problem.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:12 AM   #10
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Assuming you have taken care of the track bar bolt problem.... mud in the wrong places (wheels) can cause some hellacious out-of-balance.
What do you mean by "track bar bolt problem"?
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:17 AM   #11
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Axle seal won't cause a wobble. A bad u-joint will damage a seal though. Check your u-joints.
The Track bar is the number one culprit for DW.
Shops don't seem to understand this and it's been going on with solid axle vehicles forever,
To check the u-joints. With jeep parked, put your hand over the joint, grab the tire and rock back and forth. Feel for any play. You can use a pry bar too. Lightly lift up on the axle end and look for play in the joint.

Steer test -Look and feel around everything up front while somebody turns the wheel 9-3 and then quickly 11-1 You will see if the track bar has any movement beyond normal bushing deflection.
It's a very good idea to pull each bolt and look at the metal bushing sleeves. The stock bolt is threaded 100% and can wear the sleeves over time. Then check the holes for ovaling. There's a sticky thread that discusses a bolt upgrade for your track bars and CA's.
For the 4 tie rod ends. You should see them move up and down when doing the steer test. A large pair of channel locks works to check for up and down movement also.

Its a good idea to check the ball joints and hub bearings. Do this by getting a tire 2-3" off the ground. Use something sturdy like a shovel and lift up on the tire. Bad ball joints are noticeable and you can hear then clank. For the hub beatings, grab the tire 9-3 and forcefully push and pull.

Finally the Ca bolts/bushings. Go around with a torque wench and first make sure they're tight. The front axle bushings are known to cause issues on older jeeps.

Get this fixed ASAP. Driving with DW can cause other parts to go bad. Parts that you might have just replaced like the SS.
Thank you for the input. I'll try some of this tomorrow. Don't have all the needed tools though. Also the shop (4 Wheel Parts) seemed to be very thorough with everything and had a wealth of knowledge. Do you think that even those who specialize in Jeeps and DW could be off? I have a 6 hour drive coming up next month and a VERY limited budget to figure this out but plan to do all i can
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:27 AM   #12
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I bet with your tires aired up to 35#psi and with your foot on the throttle, you can replicate your DW shimmy. Try rotating your tires, make sure they are aired to the same exact PSI - around 28 pounds or so. Is your Jeeps alignment good? Tires and wheels round? Stuck mud inside of your rims can sometimes cause a shimmy.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:39 AM   #13
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I bet with your tires aired up to 35#psi and with your foot on the throttle, you can replicate your DW shimmy. Try rotating your tires, make sure they are aired to the same exact PSI - around 28 pounds or so. Is your Jeeps alignment good? Tires and wheels round? Stuck mud inside of your rims can sometimes cause a shimmy.
The stuck mud would explain the cause of the bad DW that happened 3 times after getting it stuck in mud almost up to the bumper. Still think there is more too it. Not sure what is causing the leak on my tire though.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by NickDozer View Post
The stuck mud would explain the cause of the bad DW that happened 3 times after getting it stuck in mud almost up to the bumper. Still think there is more too it. Not sure what is causing the leak on my tire though.
Why don't you take your spare tire and swap it with the one that is leaking?
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:55 AM   #15
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Why don't you take your spare tire and swap it with the one that is leaking?
Because it isn't the tire itself that is leaking its what is attached to the tire from the suspension. Whatever is leaking is splashing/falling onto the inside of the tire.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:12 AM   #16
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Are any of your parts cracked? Check to see if all nuts and bolts are real snug. Ask a friend that is able to double check everything for you.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:30 AM   #17
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He has a axle seal leak. Pull the fill plug and make sure the fluid level is topped off. You can drive like that as long as you keep it full. Def get it fixed though. Mine is leaking and I have a u-joint going. Only issue I have is minor vibes at highway speeds that could very much be the tires.

A good amount of people these days are just lazy and don't give the level of care they would on their own vehicle. incompetent and/or just don't give a crap.
I get this with tire shops. I've been to 3 shops. not one tech has done what I recommended or asked.

Do you have a Harbor freight local ? Pick up a 1/2 drive torque wrench for $12
You will need 21-22mm wrenches and sockets to check the key bolts. I use a long breaker bar and anchor one side when torquing bolts.

Your key bolts are the ones restraining the front axle. You have 8 Ca bolts and the 2 track bar bolts. When you have wobble issues, sometimes you will have to dig deeper. Not just check for tightness. This means removing the bolts and checking the bushings/mount holes/welds for damage.

Do you or a friend have a Gopro like camera ?
Forgot to mention this, it can be a good tool for diagnosing issues.
Here's one I filmed doing the steer test. You can clearly see the track bar. It only deflects because of the rubber bushings which is normal.

http://youtu.be/hb6mrtqw2Ws
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:41 AM   #18
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Fwiw

I bought my 07 with 34K. In the northeast so rust takes its toll on parts. The jeep was immaculate so I doubt it was off road. 100% stock.

Both my upper ball joints went bad and the tie rod end that attaches the steering drag link to the passenger knuckle. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of the problem on yours.
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Old 11-30-2013, 07:47 AM   #19
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A good amount of people these days are just lazy and don't give the level of care they would on their own vehicle. incompetent and/or just don't give a crap.
I get this with tire shops. I've been to 3 shops. not one tech has done what I recommended or asked.

You nailed the problem with many technicians and shops. A significant number of them read the shop order and go into the repair with a likely problem in mind and work to that end, instead of considering all potential issues.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:40 PM   #20
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What do you mean by "track bar bolt problem"?
Search for track bar bolt on here, lots of threads addressing this. Essentialy, the bolt from Chrysler is too small and allows movement; replace it. I don't remember all the sizes, just search it.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #21
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do a google search for "planman death wobble".

Here's the link to a thread here: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/di...ion-78090.html

I went thru this.

While trying things, I swapped out my trackbar ends, upgraded all hardware to Grade 8, new tie rod & drag link, new Steering Box & Hydraulic Assist, New Ball Joints and Knuckles, and went to all-new weld on trackbar brackets.

For me it ended up being out-of-round tires. I needed/wanted to change all that other stuff eventually anyways, but simply having new tires and tightening up the trackbar would have made the DW go away.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:59 PM   #22
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Lots of good advice here. I can tell you it's not the steering stabilizer. I've driven without one for hundreds of miles with no issues. Definitely check the tires. I gave had broken belts on reasonably new tires and I've had water inside my tire after being submerged at low psi. Both things were very similar to DW.

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