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Old 07-19-2014, 03:53 PM   #1
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Dealer says....

2014 Unlimited Rubicon, bought new, 6000 miles

Noise from throwout bearing... says dealer....Normal

Parking brake won't hold on hill says dealer.... 35" tires are the problem

Relocated vacuum pump runs at idle all the time says dealer...its because it was relocated or installed incorrectly...(neither true)

crazy dash lights coming on, cruise disconnect, all the usual wacky dash problems....dealer says...never heard of that( I even provided a video) no problem found

gurgling sound at 35mph and higher...dealer says... no sounds out of the ordinary heard

Best Dealer in town, been a Dealer since the 70's, I feel like an idiot bringing stuff up that they can't fix!!!

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Old 07-19-2014, 04:24 PM   #2
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Part of your problem not all is that you have a modified Jeep. It gives the dealer the perfect excuse to attribute many problems they don't want to address to the mod.

Test drive a similarly configured JK on a dealer's lot to double check your issues (except parking brake) aren't normal. Then take it to that dealer's shop.

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Old 07-20-2014, 06:30 AM   #3
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Sounds like my Jeep now. Water pump chirp, clutch chatter, useless parking break and a variety of other noises. I think if you mod it you have three choices.

1. Live with things that don't work.
2. Pay for the repair bill out of pocket.
3. Grow mechanical skills.

I'd go with option 3.

Good luck.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:07 PM   #4
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Other than relocated vacuum pump, imho nothing can be attributed to lift. These issues were apparent before 2000 miles. The lift went on at 3000 miles. I guess the crazy dash lights could, but those happen on stock jeeps as random as they happen on lifted Jeeps. I hear what you are saying, but a parking brake should hold on a 3% driveway. A service adviser telling me they can't hear the clutch chatter in a noisy shop on a $40K truck only makes me a little mad. Then when he "says" he hears it, "well it sounds normal, not unlike other 6 speeds" Just venting I am....
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #5
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http://offroadvegan.com/2014/06/01/f...tree-in-jeeps/

I had (hopefully it stays gone) the problem with the dash lights. I guess it is referred to as the Dashboard Christmas tree. I followed the easy steps in the attached link and so far so good no more lights.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:25 PM   #6
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I don't have many of the issues you have but my parking brake didn't hold with the stock set up...Id like to see him explain that one.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:38 PM   #7
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You may want to look into this… it is from the FTC site http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...ne-maintenance


The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.

Tips To Avoid Warranty Issues
Here's how to get the most out of your vehicle's warranty:

Read your warranty. Often bundled with your owner's manual, the warranty gives a general description and specific details about your coverage. If you have misplaced your owner's manual, look for it online. Check the "Owners" section of your manufacturer's website.
Be aware of your warranty period. If problems arise that are covered under the warranty, get them checked out before the warranty expires.

Service your car at regular intervals. This is a good idea in any case. But for the sake of keeping your warranty intact, follow the manufacturer's recommended service schedule. Details are in your owner’s manual.

Keep all service records and receipts, regardless of who performs the service. This includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, new brake pads, and inspections. Create a file to keep track of repairs; it will come in handy if you have to use your warranty. If you ever have a warranty claim and it appears that you did not maintain your vehicle, your claim could be denied.
Complain. If you think a dealer's service advisor denied your warranty claim unfairly, ask to speak with a supervisor. If you still aren't satisfied, contact the manufacturer or go to another dealer. You also may wish to file a complaint with your state Attorney General, local consumer protection office, or the FTC.

*The following is just my two cents…

If you don’t feel the dealership was fair in their analysis call the Jeep Customer Care number. This way a regional rep can get involved and perhaps help. As a former dealership employee I can tell you that sometimes the Service Managers hands are tied, but if a customer pushes the complaint for enough, and has a legitimate gripe corporate can approve the work. I can’t say it will always work out but it really doesn’t cost you anything other than some time. When I worked at the dealership corporate would go through our claims just trying to look for reasons to deny.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:50 PM   #8
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Here's the problem with the above Law. The dealer says the mods caused the problem and refuses to do work under warranty, and doesn't do any work. Your vehicle sits until you hopefully prove the dealer wrong, or get Chrysler Corporate involved and hope they don't say the same thing as the dealer. Remember the dealer isn't the one with a vehicle that needs work, you are. Proving the dealer wrong usually costs money and down time.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:31 AM   #9
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Here's the problem with the above Law. The dealer says the mods caused the problem and refuses to do work under warranty, and doesn't do any work. Your vehicle sits until you hopefully prove the dealer wrong, or get Chrysler Corporate involved and hope they don't say the same thing as the dealer. Remember the dealer isn't the one with a vehicle that needs work, you are. Proving the dealer wrong usually costs money and down time.
I went to the Jeep Corporate complaint division, what a joke. Nice old ladies that don't know anything about automobiles. They don't know what the TOB is, so if the Dealer says you broke it on the trail that's what they believe.

And I lost 3 months fighting it. If I would have gone with a lawyer then it would be somewhere between $2,000 and $40,000 in legal fees. The result would of been the same.

The system is stacked against you. If you can't find a dealer that won't willingly fix it under warranty then just fix it yourself. Costly, but saves you a lot of grief. I gave up on the warranty and will never by a new Jeep again, because the warranty is such crap.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:46 AM   #10
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Cluster: Known issue. They are currently on backorder.

Throwout brg noise: Flat rate techs don't like chasing "noises". They're hard to track down unless they are really noisy. Chrysler doesn't like dealers guessing or firing the parts cannon.

Parking brake: They don't hold great, but half the techs at my shop don't even know how to properly adjust them.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:58 AM   #11
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I have a 2013 JKUR and my instrument cluster was lighting up like a Christmas Tree! The deal replace the instrument cluster but it did not correct the problem. After some research on the forum I found others that have had this problem and have fixed it by tightening both the positive and negative cables on the battery. The battery connectors are cheap and tend to loosen causing the warning lights. I made sure I presses each connect down while compressing the connector with a wrench and then tightening the bolt. This has worked....No more Christmas tree lights. It it occurs again I will be changing out the battery cable connects, but so far so good.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:11 AM   #12
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I went to the Jeep Corporate complaint division, what a joke. Nice old ladies that don't know anything about automobiles. They don't know what the TOB is, so if the Dealer says you broke it on the trail that's what they believe.

And I lost 3 months fighting it. If I would have gone with a lawyer then it would be somewhere between $2,000 and $40,000 in legal fees. The result would of been the same.

The system is stacked against you. If you can't find a dealer that won't willingly fix it under warranty then just fix it yourself. Costly, but saves you a lot of grief. I gave up on the warranty and will never by a new Jeep again, because the warranty is such crap.

It is stacked against you, big time, and that was my point. With the The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the burden of proof lies with the customer. Remember its your vehicle, and if they say your mods caused the problem, they don't have to prove they did, you have to prove they didn't. I worked in car sales for a few years. I saw plenty of cars sit in the dealership lot waiting for things to get settled out. The techs and service writer would laugh, they didn't give a shit. Their attitude was, "hey my car runs." When they got an OK to do repairs they get done, if it took a day, a week, or a month they didn't care. That's the business. You make mods and alter the vehicle it just makes the situation worse for you if you have a problem that might be related to the mod.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:58 AM   #13
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It is stacked against you, big time, and that was my point. With the The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the burden of proof lies with the customer. Remember its your vehicle, and if they say your mods caused the problem, they don't have to prove they did, you have to prove they didn't. I worked in car sales for a few years. I saw plenty of cars sit in the dealership lot waiting for things to get settled out. The techs and service writer would laugh, they didn't give a shit. Their attitude was, "hey my car runs." When they got an OK to do repairs they get done, if it took a day, a week, or a month they didn't care. That's the business. You make mods and alter the vehicle it just makes the situation worse for you if you have a problem that might be related to the mod.
I guess I’ve just been lucky. I too worked in the auto-dealership world for almost 10 years. So I am well aware of the behind the scenes b.s.

I have to agree that I’ve seen techs with lousy attitudes. Their tools are expensive and the warranty claims, a big part of the workload, don’t pay as well as they used to. They also have to wait days, weeks, and months on occasion for back ordered parts. While getting crap from a manger as to why the jobs still open or the customer keeps calling. And the “my car runs” line certainly brings back memories. But this is precisely why you need to call customer service. I’ve had parts on back order then a customer calls corporate to complain and we get the part the next day. Now this doesn’t happen every time but the squeaky wheel gets the grease unfortunately.

Now I have had my GM customers call the customer service line with good results, and I my self had good results calling Chrysler on a personal vehicle I had with issues that was getting blown off by my local dealer with the “that’s normal” line.

Dealerships install lifts all the time and the parking brakes work so my question is why did the 35’s cause the problem?
Was a line, harness or cable the reason they stated for the malfunction?

The OP said the dealer claimed he relocated something wasn’t relocated, or did I misunderstand?

All I’m trying to say is at least talk to the service manager, nicely, and then customer service and a regional manager. If what you did really caused the issue they will be happy to bring you in the bay and show you why they believe this to be true. This way you at least know what parts you will need to upgrade and feel that you got the attention you deserve and not a brush off.

None of these options require an attorney and usually have a response within 24-48 hours.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:16 AM   #14
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A $10 dollar pizza around lunch time or a box of doughnuts in the a.m. goes a long way. Not required, but gets things done
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:29 AM   #15
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Best Dealer in town,
Based on what?
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:23 PM   #16
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All I’m trying to say is at least talk to the service manager, nicely, and then customer service and a regional manager. If what you did really caused the issue they will be happy to bring you in the bay and show you why they believe this to be true. This way you at least know what parts you will need to upgrade and feel that you got the attention you deserve and not a brush off.

None of these options require an attorney and usually have a response within 24-48 hours.
I agree 100%. My point was directed at the MM Act, and how the customer is usually on the short end of the stick when warranty problems aren't so cut and dry. You can lift a vehicle as high as you like and have a problem with the radio or power windows and have your claim handled w/o issue. Do the same thing and have a problem with a u-joint or ball joint and you might not be so lucky.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:31 PM   #17
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I agree 100%. My point was directed at the MM Act, and how the customer is usually on the short end of the stick when warranty problems aren't so cut and dry. You can lift a vehicle as high as you like and have a problem with the radio or power windows and have your claim handled w/o issue. Do the same thing and have a problem with a u-joint or ball joint and you might not be so lucky.
I agree completely. :-) The law isn’t for a situation where you are pushing a stock part way beyond its designed tolerances. But I am just so tired of seeing mechanics, some close friends, that see a modded vehicle and blame that before they even take a look at the vehicle. I know it’s just their frustration with corporate and all the pay cuts, but we in the business owe the customer more and shouldn’t take our frustration out on them.

Now I ‘m new to jeeps and modding, seems like a hell of a lot of fun though, but if the failure was premature brake wear due to increased rotational mass, worn bushings or rotors warping due to excessive heat I would be on the dealers side. But I don’t understand unless a control system was damaged with an additional lift how the tires could be to blame. How would increased tire size give the parking brake an issue while the vehicle is at rest?

Also I’ve seen mechanics blame a customer for a mod that is actually a model year change/new design. So I was curious about the relocated part that was mentioned.

And as someone else mentioned in another post… A box of donuts, coffee, a even a pizza can move mountains. I always told the service writers that I should quit my job and move to their department because they ate like kings and the holidays looked like they had a caterer. They are people too and have pretty tough days more often then not. There are not many people happy about dropping off a new car to be worked on. A little token like a coffee or doughnut can brighten their day and it is truly appreciated.

Well good luck to the OP, I hope it works out for you.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:03 PM   #18
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Problem with my dealer, was the TOB failed under warranty. I took a few rock strikes off roading to the underside of my jeep. They claimed the off roading was why. They never even took it apart. TOB in jeeps are pure crap part, and a lot of jk owners are having problems. TOB seized and blew apart. Defective part not my driving a clutch. First problem in 30 years of driving a stick.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:20 PM   #19
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Problem with my dealer, was the TOB failed under warranty. I took a few rock strikes off roading to the underside of my jeep. They claimed the off roading was why. They never even took it apart. TOB in jeeps are pure crap part, and a lot of jk owners are having problems. TOB seized and blew apart. Defective part not my driving a clutch. First problem in 30 years of driving a stick.

Sadly their word was Gospel, and you'd have to prove them wrong in order to get the work done under warranty. In a word it SUCKS!!
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:54 AM   #20
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There is a service bulletin out for the parking brake handle! I know because mine did the same thing. Also if the parking brake is not holding and they cannot fix it then there will be a lemon law issue!! Your mods do not exceed what Chrysler offers as a dealer option. You need to go to another dealer.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:56 AM   #21
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Actually if you read the warranty you are not the one who has to prove anything. They must prove your parts caused the failure. Read the warranty. My dealer tried that on me until I told them upfront, "You have to prove what I did caused the failure!" So fix it or spend months trying to prove otherwise.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:02 AM   #22
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The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:03 AM   #23
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warrantor (ˈwɒrənˌtɔː) n1. (Commerce) an individual or company that provides a warranty
2. (Law) an individual or company that provides a warranty
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:57 AM   #24
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Actually if you read the warranty you are not the one who has to prove anything. They must prove your parts caused the failure. Read the warranty. My dealer tried that on me until I told them upfront, "You have to prove what I did caused the failure!" So fix it or spend months trying to prove otherwise.
Yeah but YOU have to take them to court to make that happen if they don't want to cooperate. Be glad your dealer caved.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:06 PM   #25
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Call Chrysler Care and read this to them. They will work with you too. Chrysler does not want this to become official because if a defect is found that can inhibit the safe operation then they are screwed and the NTSB will investigate.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:33 PM   #26
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I don't back down from the dealer or Chrysler. Actually I am the guy they hate. My current position is involves Root Cause Failure Analysis for the USCG and investigate equipment casualties for major gas companies. So I investigate my failures on my jeep then present engineering reports to the dealer and Chrysler. Yes they truly hate me and I am that guy. They cannot argue with engineering reports. In fact I have tried to talk to their engineers about my issue and they would only read my report and not speak with me.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:37 PM   #27
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Sorry I am jumping around but you can also contact your state's consumer protection agency.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:36 AM   #28
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Parking brake wouldn't hold on mine, and my clutch is chattering away every time I'm off the clutch pedal. 2013 2 door, 15,000 miles

Parking brake:
Call dealer to make sure warranty covers it. Idiot say no, brakes are a 12/12,000 item.

Consult warranty manual on-line, say brakes are. Brakes. Parking brake is not brake pads or rotors... So... Call them back. Get told no from the same guy. He tells me the service manager might "work something out" for me if I want to come it. Ask to talk to him, get voicemail. Still waiting for return call 2 months later.

Call Jeep/Chrysler up and ask them. Explain situation (PB doesn't hold) and he looks up warranty info. Agrees with me, and calls a different dealer to ask their opinion, the agree. He tells me to go to the dealer and if they give me an issue, to call them. It's covered.

Go to dealer. Trip #1. Done calling. No problem, they can do it, but not that day. No problem... be back tomorrow and drop it off.

Next day, drop it off. Trip #2 They will call when it's done. Get call, they are done, but need to order parts. Oh, and the chattering clutch? Normal. Sure it is... Pick it up, parts should be in an 2-3 days, they will call.

One week later, no call from them. Call them, leave message. Still waiting for return call 2 months later.

Next day, call them again. No answer, leave message. Still waiting for call back two month later.

Next day, 11am. Done calling. Go to dealer. Trip #3. Hey, your parts are in, we should have called you! Uh huh. We'll call when it's done. Get ride back to work.

6pm, no call. Dropped off at dealership by co-worker. Techs are done for the day. My Jeep is untouched. Hey, we should have called you. No kidding. Got to bring it back the next day. Again.

Next day, drop it off. Trip #4. We'll call you when it's done. Sure you will... They actually call! Go in to pick it up. Parking brake is the exact same as when I drop it off. I can put it in 1st gear, let the clutch out with no gas, and it will roll. With 3.21 gears and 32s. Go back inside. Counter idiot talks to mechanic, comes back and tells me the mechanic says it's repaired. Blow up, get manager, we're going outside, right now. Take manager outside, demonstrate how a parking brake that does not hold a vehicle in place is just a lever to make clicky noises with. He, uh... agrees.

They get me a loaner. Gee, thanks. I tell them I am going off-roading in whatever vehicle I have that weekend, so I suggest the Jeep is fixed. Dodge Avenger might be crap off-road, but I'm willing to try. Back to work. Back after work, parking brake is actually adjusted and hold it in place. Manager says it was hard to adjust because of "mud."

I stare at him until he fidgets. Then leave.
4 trips over 2 weeks and multiple phone calls (with 0 returned calls from messages) to get my brakes adjusted. And a new set of cables and crank that made no difference whatsoever. This wasn't exactly 5 star service.

Anyways. I have an appointment next Tuesday at a different dealer to look into the clutch rattle. I'm not bringing my service business to that place again.
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:30 PM   #29
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Thanks for all the help guys. Thanks to the Forum, and me actually reading it, I solved one of my problems as many posters had suggested. Hard to believe a 2014 with 4000 miles would have loose battery terminals. Was in Colorado as I left Kansas City, had the crazy dash lights. Middle of nowhere in Pike National Forest and try to start and vehicle....it seems dead. Thought I left dome light on or something, tried key again, vehicle started. Clock was a 12:00, even though it was 8:00 am...hmmmm.....all of a sudden time went to 8:05,,,,, "you know what? I am going to check battery cables." Guess what BOTH loose as hell. Thanks God for a 10mm socket set, fixed problem, 800 miles later still ok. Can't believe the DEALER missed this...Can't believe I didn't check it after my 10 hour forum read!!! Thanks!!!
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:26 AM   #30
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I think I will be checking the battery terminal connections on ours after I get home today. We haven't had any problems like what you described but this seems to be a common issue.

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