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Old 01-01-2014, 12:07 AM   #1
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Death wobbles

Hi i have had an ongoing issue with our 2010 jk crd. i bought the car with 70000km and have had it to jeep for regular services. our first trip in the vehicle gave us an introduction to the wobbles so we took it to jeep and was told there was nothing wrong with it, we were advised to buy new tyres so we did and the issue remained. back to jeep again and a full test was done, again nothing wrong. We had a wheel balance done the problem was a little less intense so we have persisted with the car but continually driving in fear of it happening again. 30000 km in to a set of new tryes it started again, it was now time for the 100000 service i asked again and of course no nothing wrong here! now our warranty has run out, guess what?? yes there is a problem and it will be 3000 dollars to fix it !! sorry for my vent but id like to know if anyone else is having a similar problem or if you can point me in the right direction to get it sorted out, i have lost all confidence with jeep..

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Old 01-01-2014, 12:33 AM   #2
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Death wobble is very specific. Can you explain what's happening exactly. Ex. speed range, can you drive through it, after bumps, do you have to slow down or stop ?

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Old 01-01-2014, 01:09 AM   #3
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thanks for your reply. it tends to happen over 80km/hr it is a very violent shake that requires you to slow down or even totally stop. it is usually started by a bump or uneven road surfaces and is worse when going around a corner. i believe it is not road worthly they say it is, i have just had an offer from jeep to fix it for 2000 instead of the 3000 they first quoted. I think rolfe in canberra are just ripping me hard. Sometimes if i take my foot off the gas it can drive out if it. Its rather weird its like the whole car looses its harmonic balance. I f anyone knows of a suspension guru in canberra or sydney or melbourne id appreciate some help we are based in merimbula so all areas are accessable. Its hard to know which way to go with it should one stick with jeep or are there strong after market soultions for this problem.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:55 AM   #4
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The price is high because "I assume" the DW caused a lot of damage. You have to find the root cause and fix it. People chase their tail replacing parts to only find them damaged again due to the DW.

Read the sticky by "Planman" on DW.

Quick overview-
DW is your front axle not restrained anymore most likely because of a bad/loose track bar/pan hard bar.
Have somebody turn the steering wheel in park and look at the front track/pan hard bar.
You are looking for play in the joints or loose bolts. In some cases the actual mount holes are oval. It's a good idea to pull the bar and inspect it 100%

DW is 99.9% of the time track/pan hard bar related. After this is fixed, move on to any other parts that were damaged because of it.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:03 AM   #5
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Gopro or similar camera is a great tool.

Here's a quick one I made on the steering test I mentioned.
http://youtu.be/hb6mrtqw2Ws
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Gopro or similar camera is a great tool.

Here's a quick one I made on the steering test I mentioned.
Steer test 07 Jk - YouTube
Try repositioning your camera on the driver's side tie rod end. The clicking seemed to be in sync with the ss tilting forward.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:04 AM   #7
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You mentioned that it started again 30,000km into a new set of tires. How often were they rotated during that period? Also check your ball joints. If they are worn, it can lead to stress on other parts mentioned by KJ.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:29 AM   #8
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The problem of DW is inherent with all the TJ's, JK's and other 4X4's with coil spring front suspension. I have a 2005 TJ Rubicon with a 4" lift and 33" Mud Claws. It started developing the DW at 50,000 miles. What I did to locate the cause was disconnect the anti-sway bar, then have somebody turn the wheel left and right several times while I held the tie rod ends, track bar and pan hard bar. I felt a slight "Pop" when the steering was turned on the tie rod ends and pan hard bar, so I replaced them and aligned the front end myself. I've put over 3000 miles on the TJ since the repairs and have had no problems at any speed, over any surface.

Replacing the tie rod ends, pan hard bar and aligning the front end was easy and took all of two hours, unassisted. I have no specialized mechanical training, other than being a back yard mechanic for the last 40 years. The real knowledge base for doing these repairs is readily available on Youtube and parts are abundantly stocked at most auto parts stores.

Good luck.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capncraigagain View Post
The problem of DW is inherent with all the TJ's, JK's and other 4X4's with coil spring front suspension.
Actually it is inherent in vehicles with solid axles, not coil springs.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
You mentioned that it started again 30,000km into a new set of tires. How often were they rotated during that period? Also check your ball joints. If they are worn, it can lead to stress on other parts mentioned by KJ.
great input Tom, failing to rotate tires can lead to some bad stuff. my buddy hadn't rotated his tires in roughly 20k, his ball joints where also bad, and had a bent tie-rod. needless to say after a day of wheeling...

the minute we pulled back out on to the hardball his DW woes started. new tires, ball joints, grade 8 bolt kit, and synergy tie-rod and everything is "better"... hopefully he's learned his lesson.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Sport View Post
Try repositioning your camera on the driver's side tie rod end. The clicking seemed to be in sync with the ss tilting forward.
I think it's the camera or the case. I've heard the same click in other peoples vids.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:09 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I think it's the camera or the case. I've heard the same click in other peoples vids.
Ah okay. Curious that is seems in time with the ss.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
The price is high because "I assume" the DW caused a lot of damage. You have to find the root cause and fix it. People chase their tail replacing parts to only find them damaged again due to the DW.

Read the sticky by "Planman" on DW.

Quick overview-
DW is your front axle not restrained anymore most likely because of a bad/loose track bar/pan hard bar.
Have somebody turn the steering wheel in park and look at the front track/pan hard bar.
You are looking for play in the joints or loose bolts. In some cases the actual mount holes are oval. It's a good idea to pull the bar and inspect it 100%

DW is 99.9% of the time track/pan hard bar related. After this is fixed, move on to any other parts that were damaged because of it.
^^^This is the accurate guideline, to help diagnose and correct DW........
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:22 AM   #14
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my wobbles were fairly identical to OP's situation, ended up being balljoints. at 100k even on stock tires and suspension they should be nearing the end of their life.
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:21 AM   #15
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I'm new to this group.. and may have not read all the post on the Wobbles. I was getting the wobbles about 50,000 miles. Turned out to be the Steering Stabilizer.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerMooney View Post
I'm new to this group.. and may have not read all the post on the Wobbles. I was getting the wobbles about 50,000 miles. Turned out to be the Steering Stabilizer.
Welcome to the forum. Spend some time reading up on DW/wobbles. You will find out the steering stabilizer is NOT a cause for DW. You have another issue, and if not corrected. DW will return.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Welcome to the forum. Spend some time reading up on DW/wobbles. You will find out the steering stabilizer is NOT a cause for DW. You have another issue, and if not corrected. DW will return.
I had DW problems before and actually a quick change of steering stabilizer has solved it and have not had a problem with it for the last 2 years
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:43 AM   #18
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Northridge 4X4 Jeep JK Grade 8 Hardware kit i installed this kit before i ever had dw . maybe someone who knows more about it can chime in.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:49 AM   #19
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I had DW problems before and actually a quick change of steering stabilizer has solved it and have not had a problem with it for the last 2 years
Please review the "death wobble" thread in the forums sticky area linked in my sig and Jk Tech.

I'm not doubting it helped or fixed your issues, but the shock should never be used to cover for loose/worn suspension parts. Eventually it will come back if the root cause is not located and fixed.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:49 AM   #20
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I just got my DW fixed. It was bad ball joints on right side; in combination with my large tires. Any bump at around 30mph would send me into a full-on DW. Due to the mass of my tire/wheel combo if I could accelerate above 40 mph it would stabilize due to inertia but otherwise required a full stop to cease.

Not sure I agree with above comment that DW is inherent in all solid axles. I have never had it happen in any leaf-sprung solid axle and have never heard of it. There is a video out there somewhere showing a Ford F250 with supposed DW but it is absolutely NOT DW; some weird harmonics for sure but not DW.

Best diagnosis I ever heard was from someone here on WF.....if when you get out the seats are all nice and clean it wasn't DW!!

edit. steering stabilizer should RARELY be the only solution. However; as soon as you upgrade tires, wheels or spacers a weak stabilizer could possibly allow way too much movement.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:59 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcowboy72 View Post
Northridge 4X4 Jeep JK Grade 8 Hardware kit i installed this kit before i ever had dw . maybe someone who knows more about it can chime in.
Again ... In our sticky area. The factory uses 14mm fully threaded bolts in both track bars and all control arms. (Front uppers are smaller bolts)
Besides being sloppy, The threads will eventually eat into the bushings. A loose bolt or DW can oval the mount holes or destroy the bushings.
The 9/16 bolts are a tad bigger filling up the space but more importantly, shouldered to protect the bushing sleeve from wear.
2012 won't take a 9/16 frame side so the Northridge kit supply's a extra 14mm shouldered bolt.

it's just as important to periodically check and re-torque all suspension bolts. New bolts won't mean nothing if they're loose.

Most DW is because of failure to maintain the suspension and/or improperly installed parts.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:03 AM   #22
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I just got my DW fixed. It was bad ball joints on right side; in combination with my large tires. Any bump at around 30mph would send me into a full-on DW. Due to the mass of my tire/wheel combo if I could accelerate above 40 mph it would stabilize due to inertia but otherwise required a full stop to cease. Not sure I agree with above comment that DW is inherent in all solid axles. I have never had it happen in any leaf-sprung solid axle and have never heard of it. There is a video out there somewhere showing a Ford F250 with supposed DW but it is absolutely NOT DW; some weird harmonics for sure but not DW. Best diagnosis I ever heard was from someone here on WF.....if when you get out the seats are all nice and clean it wasn't DW!! edit. steering stabilizer should RARELY be the only solution. However; as soon as you upgrade tires, wheels or spacers a weak stabilizer could possibly allow way too much movement.
Combo solid axle/coils springs and a track bar. From what I understand the track bars in the leaf spring'd Yj can be removed with no I'll affects.

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