Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 14 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 05-08-2013, 11:46 AM   #391
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lansing,Mi
Posts: 154
I have 2 questions. Is it necessary to do the rear also, or only the front? I noticed on the parts list for the Synergy kit it lists rear upper control arm nut tabs. Can I use the same nut and hardened washer configuration used on all the other bolts, or is there something unique abount the rear UCA's? Thanks

wheels082 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-08-2013, 04:28 PM   #392
Newb
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3
I have read and done all of your recommendations. This has been going on for 2 months now. The thing that stumps me is why does putting the original steering damper back on make it better, not fixed, but better??

Gilly70 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-08-2013, 06:56 PM   #393
Newb
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3
Just watched the videos again...gunna run through the checklist again.
Gilly70 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #394
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
planman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels082 View Post
I have 2 questions. Is it necessary to do the rear also, or only the front? I noticed on the parts list for the Synergy kit it lists rear upper control arm nut tabs. Can I use the same nut and hardened washer configuration used on all the other bolts, or is there something unique abount the rear UCA's? Thanks
Doing the rear helps tighten things up.

The lowers experience greater forces than the uppers. It doesn't hurt to do the uppers also, but they are a little harder to do without the flags.

The front trackbar is the most critical.
__________________

His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
planman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-13-2013, 04:53 PM   #395
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Washington County, Pa.
Posts: 153
Check here for a place to get the Front end Bolt Upgrade Kit.

Checkout Ebay Item # 171040320692.

Only $ 50.00 + Shipping Appears to be Best Price available.
Tagg is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-16-2013, 11:25 AM   #396
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
michiganadam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Niles, MI
Posts: 2,353
Seriously?? 50??? How about 20 from any ace hardware? I think the bolts were 5 bucks a piece and the nuts were 2 bucks a piece and the washers are 1 buck a piece

Ok, thats it. I will be selling the kits from now on........ $45
michiganadam is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #397
MTH
Fun Killing Ninja
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Seriously?? 50??? How about 20 from any ace hardware? I think the bolts were 5 bucks a piece and the nuts were 2 bucks a piece and the washers are 1 buck a piece

Ok, thats it. I will be selling the kits from now on........ $45
Did you check the grade on those bolts?

I've heard of self-gathering the bolts via mail or special order somewhat cheaper, but not that cheap. Usually when the price is that low, the grade on the bolts isn't high enough . . . and that's very, very dangerous.

Like stringing your suspension together with licorice.

Edit: And doesn't the northridge kit come with like 12 bolts? How are you getting to $20 at $5 per bolt? Maybe I'm missing something.
__________________
Mike
2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
MTH is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-18-2013, 04:47 PM   #398
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 33,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post



I am around 3.5" on lift. Maybe a bit more. Toe in yes. What I meant was I brought the toe out from 3/16 to 1/8 "in"

Ill def check these bushings out. Only way I've checked them was with a crow bar and visual for cracking.
Update:

So I checked my upper bushings and they are ok. Im thinking about replacing them anyways.

I turned my LCA's joints out 1 turn. Drives better as expected with more caster. Lubed the joints while apart.

Finally, I torqued all the bolts to 140 ft lbs.

Tires balanced. Rear right took a lot of weight and wobbled on the machine. We used the spare and will be calling for a replacement on Monday.

Now lets hope my drive shaft gets along with the caster
__________________
2007 Rubicon/Rock Krawler TR 2.5 coils/rear TB/Rancho 9000 31/32XL shocks/Teraflex monster TB/Synergy highsteer,tie rod, ball joints/Hankook MT 315-75-16 on Level 8 ZX's/MC front SB links/Rancho geo brackets & shocks/Fox ATS stabilizer/Adams front DS/Artec front armor w/ Currie upper bushings=Frankinjeep from hell.

Lifting your JK? Read this!!



Click HERE to become a WranglerForum Supporting Member!
kjeeper10 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #399
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
michiganadam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Niles, MI
Posts: 2,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Did you check the grade on those bolts?

I've heard of self-gathering the bolts via mail or special order somewhat cheaper, but not that cheap. Usually when the price is that low, the grade on the bolts isn't high enough . . . and that's very, very dangerous.

Like stringing your suspension together with licorice.

Edit: And doesn't the northridge kit come with like 12 bolts? How are you getting to $20 at $5 per bolt? Maybe I'm missing something.
Uhm i thought we were talking about trackbar bolts? You mean theres other bolts that arent the right size??
And yeah theyre grade 8. I might be dumb but not that dumb lol.
michiganadam is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-19-2013, 08:35 AM   #400
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nashville
Posts: 81
I apologize if this has been asked in this thread. I don't have time currently to read through the 14 pages of posts to see.

Was DW fixed by the 2013 models? I am looking at a lift kit and suspension upgrade and was wondering if I should replace the bolts with the grade 8 bolts kit or if DW was fixed at this point? I am assuming a lift kit doesn't come with new bolts and hardware and uses the factory ones. Thanks for the answer and again, sorry if this is a repeat question.
__________________
2013 Sahara Unlimited, True Blue
TNwoodsman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-19-2013, 12:19 PM   #401
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
michiganadam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Niles, MI
Posts: 2,353
Dw will never be completely fixed, its an inherent issue with this kind of suspension when it wears out or is improperly reassembled.

Fairly sure they didnt fix the bolts being the wrong size, which will wear things out at an accelerated rate. Pull the bolt and see.

Lift kits usually use stock hardware. Infact they very rarely are complete if you ask me.
michiganadam is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-19-2013, 09:12 PM   #402
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nashville
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganadam View Post
Dw will never be completely fixed, its an inherent issue with this kind of suspension when it wears out or is improperly reassembled.

Fairly sure they didnt fix the bolts being the wrong size, which will wear things out at an accelerated rate. Pull the bolt and see.

Lift kits usually use stock hardware. Infact they very rarely are complete if you ask me.
Thanks
__________________
2013 Sahara Unlimited, True Blue
TNwoodsman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-20-2013, 08:43 AM   #403
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
rcosika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Near Reading, PA
Posts: 32
Hello all!

Well, after reading through this entire thread, I am still stumped.

Here's my summary: I have a 2010 Wrangler that was equipped with a 2" OME lift at around 25k miles. I had no problems with DW until shortly after replacing the factory steering damper with an OME upgrade (~26k). It doesn't do it all the time, and the only consistent conditions are that it seems likely to happen when going from bridge concrete back to asphalt at 60-70 mph. Immediately slowing down to 40 mph makes the problem go away. It has happened about 4 times now, but not always.

I watched the videos and checked everything in great detail (I'm a decent mechanic). As a last resort, I took the vehicle to the dealership...they told me that "a million things can cause DW, but the most likely problem is the steering stabilizer." Aaargh. They did replace the drag link under warranty (just hit 36k miles), and an intermediate steering shaft (??) is on order. If that doesn't work, I have no idea what to do next.

That being said, does anyone know if there is a "Jeep guru" or decent off-road shop near Sinking Spring/Reading, PA that might be able to further help me? The DW problem is very disturbing.

I have had Jeeps for over 30 years now, and this is first problem I've ever seen/encountered like this. I love my new Jeep, but it just seem like it won't be as durable as my previous ones. :| Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Regards,

Bob~
rcosika is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-20-2013, 08:51 AM   #404
rabbits eat lettuce

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
tabber02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: left coast, florida
Posts: 9,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcosika View Post
Hello all!

Well, after reading through this entire thread, I am still stumped.

Here's my summary: I have a 2010 Wrangler that was equipped with a 2" OME lift at around 25k miles. I had no problems with DW until shortly after replacing the factory steering damper with an OME upgrade (~26k). It doesn't do it all the time, and the only consistent conditions are that it seems likely to happen when going from bridge concrete back to asphalt at 60-70 mph. Immediately slowing down to 40 mph makes the problem go away. It has happened about 4 times now, but not always.

I watched the videos and checked everything in great detail (I'm a decent mechanic). As a last resort, I took the vehicle to the dealership...they told me that "a million things can cause DW, but the most likely problem is the steering stabilizer." Aaargh. They did replace the drag link under warranty (just hit 36k miles), and an intermediate steering shaft (??) is on order. If that doesn't work, I have no idea what to do next.

That being said, does anyone know if there is a "Jeep guru" or decent off-road shop near Sinking Spring/Reading, PA that might be able to further help me? The DW problem is very disturbing.

I have had Jeeps for over 30 years now, and this is first problem I've ever seen/encountered like this. I love my new Jeep, but it just seem like it won't be as durable as my previous ones. :| Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Regards,

Bob~
bob--
a couple questions for starters.
1. do you have the northridge trackbar and control arm bolt kit?
2. is there excessive play in your draglink TRE? (at the knuckle)
3. is there excessive play in your trackbar?
4. what size tires? how many miles on your tires? think your tires are over/underinflated?
5. if you jack the jeep up and wiggle the wheel/tire, is there play?
6. whats the angle like between your trackbar and drag link, are they the same, or different? (do they parallel each other (=) or look more like this (<)

-bob
__________________

-bob

2010 JK - Mountain Edition
i spend way too much money on it... that's all


Become a Supporting Member of the Wrangler Forum, upgrade your account today



tabber02 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-20-2013, 12:31 PM   #405
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
rcosika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Near Reading, PA
Posts: 32
Updated info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabber02 View Post
bob--
a couple questions for starters.
1. do you have the northridge trackbar and control arm bolt kit?
2. is there excessive play in your draglink TRE? (at the knuckle)
3. is there excessive play in your trackbar?
4. what size tires? how many miles on your tires? think your tires are over/underinflated?
5. if you jack the jeep up and wiggle the wheel/tire, is there play?
6. whats the angle like between your trackbar and drag link, are they the same, or different? (do they parallel each other (=) or look more like this (<)

-bob
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly...here are the answers:
1. When the lift was installed, I opted to go with JKS Adjustable Track Bars and retained the stock hardware. No damage was observed to the mounting holes at that time (~10k miles ago), and I've re-check the torque several times, without ever needing to re-tighten (125 ft-lbs). So, no upgrades there, though based on this thread, I was thinking about replacing the hardware with Grade 8 9/16"-18 shoulder bolts. Should I just do that as a matter of course?
2. The Drag Line TRE was just replaced under warranty just last week. That didn't seem to help. As I indicated, the dealership ordered something called an Intermidiate Steering Coupling to be replaced under warranty. Beyond that, I've followed the videos meticulously to check everything else...tie-rod, pitman arm, ball joints, wheel hubs, etc. all seem really tight. Last night I checked the torque on Control Arm bolts, and had to tighten them a bit; they didn't indicate any play, though.
3. The Track Bar seems tight, with no play and no additional torque required to get to 125 ft-lbs.
4. The tires are still the original stock tires on factory rims (the upgrade tire package); they are set to the factory-recommended pressure. There is still plenty of thread left...tires were just rotated last week, which did not seem to help. I told the dealership to re-balance the tires, if necessary, but I don't think they did. I am just about ready to buy new tires/wheels, but want to get this issue corrected first. What are your thoughts on the tires in this situation?
5. There is no play in the wheels/tires when the vehicle is jacked-up.
6. The drag link is parallel to the track bar on a diagonal up to point where the track bar bends around the differential.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for assistance...if you need any other information, please just ask! Who knows, maybe I'll get this thing resolved.

My only "professional" help has been the dealer, but they really haven't been much help at all. The shame of it is that they sell pre-modified Wranglers, but don't seem to have a clue.

Anyway, any advice is greatly appreciated! If not, I'm still hoping to find a shop or "guru" in my area! Thanks again!

Regards,

Bob~
rcosika is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-20-2013, 12:41 PM   #406
rabbits eat lettuce

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
tabber02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: left coast, florida
Posts: 9,944
answers are in red below. rather than throw a bunch of suggestions at you... i'd start here:
1. chalk test - check the PSI - see if you have wear is across the entire tread, or just on the crown of the tire.
2. replace the trackbar and control arm bolts with the grade 8 kit.

let us know how that works...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rcosika View Post
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly...here are the answers:
1. When the lift was installed, I opted to go with JKS Adjustable Track Bars and retained the stock hardware. No damage was observed to the mounting holes at that time (~10k miles ago), and I've re-check the torque several times, without ever needing to re-tighten (125 ft-lbs). So, no upgrades there, though based on this thread, I was thinking about replacing the hardware with Grade 8 9/16"-18 shoulder bolts. Should I just do that as a matter of course?
yes... i'd bet that even though you feel no play, that the stock bolts are swimming in the trackbar bushings. it's night and day - with the northridge bolt kit...

2. The Drag Line TRE was just replaced under warranty just last week. That didn't seem to help. As I indicated, the dealership ordered something called an Intermidiate Steering Coupling to be replaced under warranty. Beyond that, I've followed the videos meticulously to check everything else...tie-rod, pitman arm, ball joints, wheel hubs, etc. all seem really tight. Last night I checked the torque on Control Arm bolts, and had to tighten them a bit; they didn't indicate any play, though.
3. The Track Bar seems tight, with no play and no additional torque required to get to 125 ft-lbs.
4. The tires are still the original stock tires on factory rims (the upgrade tire package); they are set to the factory-recommended pressure. you might want to do a "chalk test" on the tires. factory recommended pressure is typically a little on the high side... There is still plenty of thread left...tires were just rotated last week, which did not seem to help. I told the dealership to re-balance the tires, if necessary, but I don't think they did. I am just about ready to buy new tires/wheels, but want to get this issue corrected first. What are your thoughts on the tires in this situation?
i think that's a good idea...

5. There is no play in the wheels/tires when the vehicle is jacked-up. okay, then your ball joints are probably okay...
6. The drag link is parallel to the track bar on a diagonal up to point where the track bar bends around the differential.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for assistance...if you need any other information, please just ask! Who knows, maybe I'll get this thing resolved.

My only "professional" help has been the dealer, but they really haven't been much help at all. The shame of it is that they sell pre-modified Wranglers, but don't seem to have a clue.

Anyway, any advice is greatly appreciated! If not, I'm still hoping to find a shop or "guru" in my area! Thanks again!

Regards,

Bob~
__________________

-bob

2010 JK - Mountain Edition
i spend way too much money on it... that's all


Become a Supporting Member of the Wrangler Forum, upgrade your account today



tabber02 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-20-2013, 02:43 PM   #407
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
rcosika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Near Reading, PA
Posts: 32
Thanks for the suggestions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabber02 View Post
answers are in red below. rather than throw a bunch of suggestions at you... i'd start here:
1. chalk test - check the PSI - see if you have wear is across the entire tread, or just on the crown of the tire.
2. replace the trackbar and control arm bolts with the grade 8 kit.

let us know how that works...
First of all, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the personalized help!

I guess I was on the right track. About the hardware upgrade, though, I noticed that Synergy has a Front Track Bar Brace and Sector Shaft Brace "kit" that you can buy. Since I'm going to be messing with the hardware anyway, is this a worthwhile upgrade, in your opinion? Or should I just start with the hardware upgrade. I'll be ordering the hardware directly.

As for the tires, the front tires had a slight "heel-toe" pattern on the outer tread, and were rotated to the rear; otherwise, the tread wear across the pattern is very uniform. I'll do the chalk test just to be sure.

Thanks again for the help...I be sure to post the results after the dealer does their thing and I get that hardware replaced!

Thanks again for all the suggestions and help! I love my Jeep and just want to be safe on the road!

Regards,

Bob~
rcosika is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 07:45 AM   #408
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 33,898
The caster helped but I've turned my attentions back to the rear end.

I can see my rear drivers tire jump around, the axle seems to be very sensitive the road. One bump feels like 4 and the jeep jerks around. It's like rolling over a bunch of speed bumps and the road is rather smooth. when rough the jeep becomes hard to handle at any speed.
Steering feels nice but whatever this is is affected
by it.

Rotors are new and I checked the flanges. Maybe .005 on the runout.

There is a subtle squeak going over bumps and under 20 mph. I'm thinking bearing but I don't have any movement that's excessive ?

RK track bar replaced the stocker with 0 change.

Im running 26 psi. Any lower or higher the ride is worse.

Shocks-Rancho 9000's and now Fox 2.0's. happened with both.

Tires are new, Both sets rotated around.

Weight does help. Seemed to get worse after the hard top was removed.

I really don't know where else to turn. Hoping somebody has had similar experiences and fixed the problem.
__________________
2007 Rubicon/Rock Krawler TR 2.5 coils/rear TB/Rancho 9000 31/32XL shocks/Teraflex monster TB/Synergy highsteer,tie rod, ball joints/Hankook MT 315-75-16 on Level 8 ZX's/MC front SB links/Rancho geo brackets & shocks/Fox ATS stabilizer/Adams front DS/Artec front armor w/ Currie upper bushings=Frankinjeep from hell.

Lifting your JK? Read this!!



Click HERE to become a WranglerForum Supporting Member!
kjeeper10 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 08:37 AM   #409
rabbits eat lettuce

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
tabber02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: left coast, florida
Posts: 9,944
wow Ken, i wish i had a solution for you... that's ridiculous that you're still experiencing some issues. you've been over that with a fine tooth comb.

any chance that one of your control arms is bent or something? or the bushings are gone?
__________________

-bob

2010 JK - Mountain Edition
i spend way too much money on it... that's all


Become a Supporting Member of the Wrangler Forum, upgrade your account today



tabber02 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 08:46 AM   #410
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 33,898
Weird because it seams like its a up and down movement and everything feels tight. I have issues calling it a shake cause its really not..... I don't think.

Alignment I'm assuming would have shown if something was bent.

My next move is axles/bearings but hesitant to drop $400 and if nothing is really showing itself.
__________________
2007 Rubicon/Rock Krawler TR 2.5 coils/rear TB/Rancho 9000 31/32XL shocks/Teraflex monster TB/Synergy highsteer,tie rod, ball joints/Hankook MT 315-75-16 on Level 8 ZX's/MC front SB links/Rancho geo brackets & shocks/Fox ATS stabilizer/Adams front DS/Artec front armor w/ Currie upper bushings=Frankinjeep from hell.

Lifting your JK? Read this!!



Click HERE to become a WranglerForum Supporting Member!
kjeeper10 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #411
rabbits eat lettuce

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
tabber02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: left coast, florida
Posts: 9,944
what about one of your axle flanges?
__________________

-bob

2010 JK - Mountain Edition
i spend way too much money on it... that's all


Become a Supporting Member of the Wrangler Forum, upgrade your account today



tabber02 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 08:53 AM   #412
rabbits eat lettuce

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
tabber02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: left coast, florida
Posts: 9,944
answers in blue below! sorry for the delayed response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcosika View Post
First of all, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the personalized help!

I guess I was on the right track. About the hardware upgrade, though, I noticed that Synergy has a Front Track Bar Brace and Sector Shaft Brace "kit" that you can buy. Since I'm going to be messing with the hardware anyway, is this a worthwhile upgrade, in your opinion? Or should I just start with the hardware upgrade. I'll be ordering the hardware directly.

yeah, but.. if your angles change (track bar and drag link) then i wouldn't replace it. (or you could replace it and flip your drag link - but that gets pricey)

do you have a trackbar relocation bracket on the rear axle? i'm thinking you should...


As for the tires, the front tires had a slight "heel-toe" pattern on the outer tread, and were rotated to the rear; otherwise, the tread wear across the pattern is very uniform. I'll do the chalk test just to be sure.

Thanks again for the help...I be sure to post the results after the dealer does their thing and I get that hardware replaced!

Thanks again for all the suggestions and help! I love my Jeep and just want to be safe on the road!

Regards,

Bob~
__________________

-bob

2010 JK - Mountain Edition
i spend way too much money on it... that's all


Become a Supporting Member of the Wrangler Forum, upgrade your account today



tabber02 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 12:03 PM   #413
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
rcosika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Near Reading, PA
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabber02 View Post
answers in blue below! sorry for the delayed response.
No problem...thanks for getting back to me, but...you lost me a bit.

The "kit" I was referring to is designed to help support and reinforce the frame-side front track bar mount...I've read in this thread somewhere that it can help restore "worn" mounting holes.

As for my track bars in general, I added them separately when the lift was installed, even though I read that they weren't necessary for a 2" lift. Both my front and rear track bars are JKS adjustable units, and were set at the time of install to restore the axle centering. If I remember correctly, I think they ended up being about 1/4" longer than the stock ones...which made me wonder if they were really necessary. No bother now, though, they're in!

Anyway, can the rear track bar (or rear suspension) have any influence on my DW??? I thought the issue was limited to front suspension with respect to DW. That's why your suggestion about a rear TB relocation bracket has me stumped.

I did order the front suspension bolt replacement kit and will report back after it's installed. It may take a week or so to "git 'er done!"

Thanks again, and please let me know I've missed anything!

Regards,

Bob~
rcosika is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 12:11 PM   #414
rabbits eat lettuce

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
tabber02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: left coast, florida
Posts: 9,944
i gotcha

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcosika View Post
No problem...thanks for getting back to me, but...you lost me a bit.

The "kit" I was referring to is designed to help support and reinforce the frame-side front track bar mount...I've read in this thread somewhere that it can help restore "worn" mounting holes.

ah... i thought you were referring to a track bar relocation bracket for the axle.

As for my track bars in general, I added them separately when the lift was installed, even though I read that they weren't necessary for a 2" lift. Both my front and rear track bars are JKS adjustable units, and were set at the time of install to restore the axle centering. If I remember correctly, I think they ended up being about 1/4" longer than the stock ones...which made me wonder if they were really necessary. No bother now, though, they're in!

Anyway, can the rear track bar (or rear suspension) have any influence on my DW??? I thought the issue was limited to front suspension with respect to DW. That's why your suggestion about a rear TB relocation bracket has me stumped.

sure can! if the geometry is off a bit.. that will replicate through the front end..


I did order the front suspension bolt replacement kit and will report back after it's installed. It may take a week or so to "git 'er done!"

Thanks again, and please let me know I've missed anything!

Regards,

Bob~
__________________

-bob

2010 JK - Mountain Edition
i spend way too much money on it... that's all


Become a Supporting Member of the Wrangler Forum, upgrade your account today



tabber02 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 12:46 PM   #415
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 33,898
The frame bracket is nice but not needed unless the holes are really bad. The bracket does add strength to the weak mount. Some folks will run washers welded on to fix oval holes. Up to you on that one.

I don't think they make a axle side that doesn't raise the track bar that's bolt on. If there is one, it replaces the factory mount.

Teraflex/Synergy make good brackets for the rear that are bolt on. A axle bracket will do 3 things on the rear
- roll center
- somewhat center the axle (you still may need a adj. track bar)
- strengthen the mount
__________________
2007 Rubicon/Rock Krawler TR 2.5 coils/rear TB/Rancho 9000 31/32XL shocks/Teraflex monster TB/Synergy highsteer,tie rod, ball joints/Hankook MT 315-75-16 on Level 8 ZX's/MC front SB links/Rancho geo brackets & shocks/Fox ATS stabilizer/Adams front DS/Artec front armor w/ Currie upper bushings=Frankinjeep from hell.

Lifting your JK? Read this!!



Click HERE to become a WranglerForum Supporting Member!
kjeeper10 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 08:24 PM   #416
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
rcosika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Near Reading, PA
Posts: 32
Hello!

Once again, thanks for all the answers and help!!! I'm gonna start by replacing all the bolts and see how it goes. I'll be sure to check the rear suspension as well. I really do appreciate all the help and advice....and I'll be sure to report back soon!

Regards,

Bob~
rcosika is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #417
Newb

WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1
Lift kit, no steering correction

The punch line first then the rest of the story.

My recently purchased jeep has canter problems. It has a 4" lift and 35" tires, but no other mods like gears or adjustable controls arms.

My question: Are adjustable upper control arms enough to correct the canter problem, or should I go ahead and change out some of the stock steering linkage since none of the steering components were replaced to compensate for the 4" lift.

What is the benefit of having both upper and lower adjustable control arms? Currently I'm just changing the uppers.

What are the unintended consequences of changing the axle alignment. Will there be other component conflicts that will need to be corrected? Are there clearance issues with the shocks?

I'm modifying this jeep to be a hybrid street / trail / off road vehicle. As bad ass as I can make it for off road and still keep it street legal.

I'm not on a really tight budget and will go ahead and change components as needed, just don't want to get led down the path by a car parts salesman who is probably working on commission.

Who's got some advice on this issue, good advice would be best.

Now the story:

I just bought a 2010 JK Sport a couple of weeks ago, only has 11K miles, almost like new. Got a great deal on it because it had a salvage title, although there is nothing wrong with it. Car fax gave it a clean bill of health, said it had been in a wreck in AZ but no structural damage, only body panels. You can't tell it was ever in a wreck. My 5th 4WD vehicle, but my first jeep. Also my first trip into major mods.

The jeep has a 4" pro comp lift w/ 20" Eagle Alloy wheels and Federal 35" tires. I think this work was done by the dealer at time of new car sale. But that's all they did, no new gears or after market steering linkage, etc. The pitman arm may be after market, but I don't know what an OEM looks like.

I noticed there was a tracking problem when I test drove it. Checked the linkage and everything was tight and looked good. It wandered a lot and passing an 18 wheeler was an unintended lane change if I wasn't careful. Figured an alignment and canter correction would fix the problem. I know this this can lead to death wobble because of premature wear on steering linkage, and in general just isn't very safe.

I had a serious death wobble in my 2005 F-250 4WD diesel. The steering is under engineered on the F-250s and with the heavier diesel engine and a heavy Ranch Hand cattle guard on the front, the steering system just wasn't up to the job. I finally sold it because I got tired of replacing the steering box every 30K + stabilizer and tie rod ends. Lots of dealerships and mechanics kept telling me there was nothing wrong w/ the steering at the same time they were replacing prematurely worn out components. It was surreal, so after a 120K, I kicked it to the curb.

I swore I'd never own another Ford, then I jumped up and went out and bought a Raptor cuz I got such a "great deal" on it. And they're really cool looking and they've got 400 horses under hood and can drink gas like a Bourbon Street wino. Slow learner.

Took my new Sport into the Jeep dealer to check it out and asked them to check the alignment and set the canter further back so the wheels would track properly. Also the ESP light wouldn't go off and the ESP rocker switch on the center console was broken. When I picked it up, I asked about the canter and they said that the canter and camber couldn't be changed because it was a solid axle. He told me there was nothing wrong w/ the steering, it was normal for the big tires. Does this sound familiar? I didn't believe him, but I didn't T him up on a BS foul either, been there done that. It's like teaching pigs to dance. You get really frustrated and it irritates the pig.

Oh yeah, the ESP light was off when I picked it up, but it came back on the next day, and the ESP rocker switch was replaced, but it will not turn the ESP off the way it is supposed to. I took it to the dealer because I figured they would be the best for the ESP problem, but there you go. I hate taking vehicles to dealers, they almost always have rotten service, I'm just a slow learner. And they will look at you straight in the face and tell you a big old fat whopper of a lie. I bet they would even swear on a bible if they had one handy.

So I'm putting the big old Technical foul on him now. It's only polite to talk about people behind their back, because nobody likes to have their short comings thrown up to their face.

Then I went to the 4WD parts store in Austin. Arranged to get new gears and lockers in the differentials and a few other odds and ends. Going from 3.25 to 4.88 gears. Talked to them about the canter problems and they advised that adjustable upper control arms would solve the problem by being able to rotate the top of the front axle forward. Also adjustable upper control arms for the rear axle in order to adjust for drive shaft alignment. Made sense to me so that's what we are doing. Since then, as I've read in several forums, it appears to be more complicated than that.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
txred99 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-23-2013, 04:44 AM   #418
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 33,898
Holy moly lol

Lowers only will add caster for your wandering issue. Lifting with stock arms pulls the axles in-and also rotates them up, affecting caster and wheelbase.

The top balljoint behind the bottom is your caster angle looking from the side. Less the caster angle the steering becomes loose and flighty. There's a catch though... If running a aftermarket front DS,
More positive caster affects pinion angle. It's a balance between the 2 and every jeep is different
Some people can get away with more caster and some can't-without having vibrations.

4" plus is a good amount of lift on a JK especially a 2 door with already shorter wheelbase. Obviously all 8 arms will let you set your front caster (or pinion-opposite of caster)/wheel base, rear pinion angle/wheel base.
Also square the axles perfectly.
All 8 arms will allow the axles to freely move and won't bind like the factory arms/bushings.

On a budget, or you don't want to add all the arms at once.

- front lowers for caster/pinion #1
- rear uppers for pinion/driveshaft angle
- front uppers for caster/pinion (lowers now wheel base)
- rear lowers for wheel base (uppers pinion)

Front lowers should be next on your list to get some lost caster back
__________________
2007 Rubicon/Rock Krawler TR 2.5 coils/rear TB/Rancho 9000 31/32XL shocks/Teraflex monster TB/Synergy highsteer,tie rod, ball joints/Hankook MT 315-75-16 on Level 8 ZX's/MC front SB links/Rancho geo brackets & shocks/Fox ATS stabilizer/Adams front DS/Artec front armor w/ Currie upper bushings=Frankinjeep from hell.

Lifting your JK? Read this!!



Click HERE to become a WranglerForum Supporting Member!
kjeeper10 is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-24-2013, 10:39 PM   #419
Winter Is Coming

WF Supporting Member
 
Oberst Hajj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 784
Images: 7
Hello all,

My recently purchased 2012 JKUR with Rancho 4" lift and 35" tires (and some bushings and such, sorry not really sure what all was done to it) just started getting DW. I watched the videos and went to work my way through all the checks when I noticed that the Rancho steering stabilizer was leaking pretty good. I had already picked up some grade 8 bolts for the track bar (locally they only had 9/16 - 12, would the -12 vice a -18 be an issue?) so I put those in anyways. My question is, could the leaking steering stabilizer be the sole cause of my WB?

I'm obviously going to replace it, but should I continue to look at other things, or is it pointless until that is replaced?

Thanks for your help and time,

Keith
Oberst Hajj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-25-2013, 09:03 AM   #420
Jeeper
 
mackdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tropical Nova Scotia
Posts: 30,376
I've heard that replacing the upper front 14mm track bar bolt on newer jk's with a grade 8 hardened 9/16's bolt is a good idea because of a better fit. Anyone else heard or done this?

__________________


-----Donnie---


Do not argue with and idiot......he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience!
mackdj1 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



logo carid shop wrangler parts carid fender flares custom wheels store avs deflectors at carid
» Rates
Get low rates on auto insurance in Canada!

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC