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Old 05-25-2013, 11:33 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by mackdj1 View Post
I've heard that replacing the upper front 14mm track bar bolt on newer jk's with a grade 8 hardened 9/16's bolt is a good idea because of a better fit. Anyone else heard or done this?
Yep, it's a quite common thing to do to fix DW, but there are more bolts to replace then that one. I just replaced the two track bar bolts on my JKUR last night. Less then an hour if you have all the tools. Lowes also had the bolts in stock.

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Old 05-25-2013, 01:11 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
Yep, it's a quite common thing to do to fix DW, but there are more bolts to replace then that one. I just replaced the two track bar bolts on my JKUR last night. Less then an hour if you have all the tools. Lowes also had the bolts in stock.
Why not just buy the kit from Synergy? They have high strength G9 hardware for the TB, UCA's and LCA's.

Lowes?

Not sure I would scrimp when it comes to suspension components or fasteners.


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Old 05-25-2013, 01:26 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post

Why not just buy the kit from Synergy? They have high strength G9 hardware for the TB, UCA's and LCA's.

Lowes?

Not sure I would scrimp when it comes to suspension components or fasteners.
I buy mine from a local company that specializes in fasteners.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:49 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
Why not just buy the kit from Synergy? They have high strength G9 hardware for the TB, UCA's and LCA's.

Lowes?

Not sure I would scrimp when it comes to suspension components or fasteners.

Since this is the wife's daily driver, she wants it fixed now and does not want to drive it until it is fixed. So, waiting until the end of the week for their kit to arrive and then the weekend for me to do it was not an option.

Besides, Grade 8 refers to a standard the bolts are made to. Buying them from one place or the other does not make a difference in the quality of the bolts. The kits make it convenient since they have all the parts you need in one package. Having a brand name on them don't make the better however.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:52 PM   #425
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Hello all,

My recently purchased 2012 JKUR with Rancho 4" lift and 35" tires (and some bushings and such, sorry not really sure what all was done to it) just started getting DW. I watched the videos and went to work my way through all the checks when I noticed that the Rancho steering stabilizer was leaking pretty good. I had already picked up some grade 8 bolts for the track bar (locally they only had 9/16 - 12, would the -12 vice a -18 be an issue?) so I put those in anyways. My question is, could the leaking steering stabilizer be the sole cause of my WB?

I'm obviously going to replace it, but should I continue to look at other things, or is it pointless until that is replaced?

Thanks for your help and time,

Keith
Well, the wife wanted this fixed and prefered that it get fixed right way and by a "real mechanic", so we dropped the Jeep off at the dealer this morning. They replaced the bad steering stabilizer with a new stock unit and called it good. While the DW is gone, from all the reading on this site and others, I don't think the problem was actually fixed. I'll have to continue working my way through the checklist to see if I can find the root cause.
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:22 PM   #426
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I buy mine from a local company that specializes in fasteners.
I use Hillco Fasteners and other automotive specialty shops periodically... however I believe the Synergy kit has other components like G9 nut tabs and washers matched for the JK suspension.

If Synergy didn't make it so convenient and I had more time to hunt down all the right components, I would drive down to Hillco.

Home - Hillco Fastener Warehouse

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Old 05-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #427
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There's a local fastener store here as well that I've used in the past, but unfortunately they are closed for the long weekend. Other wise I would have bought them there.
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:27 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
Since this is the wife's daily driver, she wants it fixed now and does not want to drive it until it is fixed. So, waiting until the end of the week for their kit to arrive and then the weekend for me to do it was not an option.

Besides, Grade 8 refers to a standard the bolts are made to. Buying them from one place or the other does not make a difference in the quality of the bolts. The kits make it convenient since they have all the parts you need in one package. Having a brand name on them don't make the better however.
Understood... however, brand names mean a lot to me when it comes to safety and performance.

Ask your Jeep service advisor what he thinks about the bolts you bought from Lowes.

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Old 05-25-2013, 03:44 PM   #429
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He thinks they are just fine, he reinstalled them with the new steering stabilizer. I agree that brand names can make a difference in some aspects, just not in this one. I highly doubt that Synergy is having these bolts custom made just for them, like the local fastener stores and even Lowes, they are sources them from either distributors or the manufacture.

The bolts I picked up look exactly like the ones in the Synergy kit (I know theirs are Grade 9). I was actually looking at the Northridge kit before the time constraint was applied. They actually list out what the bolts truly are and Lowes had the exact same type (slightly different thread spacing, 12 vs 18). The Lowes bolts were not any cheaper either, actually cost me more then that Northridge kit would have.

If repackaged bolts with a name on them you know makes anyone feel better about them, then they should go with those. I just wanted to point out that there are other local options out there.
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:26 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post

Well, the wife wanted this fixed and prefered that it get fixed right way and by a "real mechanic", so we dropped the Jeep off at the dealer this morning. They replaced the bad steering stabilizer with a new stock unit and called it good. While the DW is gone, from all the reading on this site and others, I don't think the problem was actually fixed. I'll have to continue working my way through the checklist to see if I can find the root cause.
Show her this sticky
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #431
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Of course Synergy didn't have these custom made. If it was my core business focus, I would assemble a kit myself using ARP components and call it M998 bolt kit and sell them - but I have enough on my plate.

Btw.. I discussed this with my service advisor yesterday. I commented if I brought in a bolt kit to replace the poorly spec'd factory components used on the track bar, mount and control arms, would you install them?

His response was yes, but if anything goes wrong with the suspension, warranty won't cover it. That was the exact response I was expecting. Therefore, I returned with the comment, I won't need to bring it in for suspension work if we change those bolts. That was the end of our discussion.

If I remove and replace these components in my garage, Chrysler will never know and won't have a record in their database. However, I'd rather have the dealer perform this task due to my recent rotator cuff surgery. I'm not supposed to reach overhead or lift anything over 5 lbs.

Life is full of risks and decisions...

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Old 05-25-2013, 05:31 PM   #432
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Yeah .. my exact thoughts.

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Old 05-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #433
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There are no stock suspension components worth replacing under warranty.

If any stock suspension components failed on you, why would you want to replace them with the same quality parts?

Forget the suspension warranty, and upgrade at least the trackbar bolts.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:25 PM   #434
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There are no stock suspension components worth replacing under warranty.

If any stock suspension components failed on you, why would you want to replace them with the same quality parts?

Forget the suspension warranty, and upgrade at least the trackbar bolts.

Who said anything about replacing with factory components?

The recent discussion is about having a dealer install the upgraded hardware per your findings.



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Old 05-26-2013, 11:05 PM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
Well, the wife wanted this fixed and prefered that it get fixed right way and by a "real mechanic", so we dropped the Jeep off at the dealer this morning. They replaced the bad steering stabilizer with a new stock unit and called it good. While the DW is gone, from all the reading on this site and others, I don't think the problem was actually fixed. I'll have to continue working my way through the checklist to see if I can find the root cause.
Everytime i go to a real mechanic i feel like theyre a worse mechanic than i am. I do not consider myself a good mechanic. My jeep will never again go to a real mechanic. Infact a real mechanic directly caused my death wobble. Never had it until a new dana 30 was installed.

You probably need a trackbar.

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Understood... however, brand names mean a lot to me when it comes to safety and performance.

Ask your Jeep service advisor what he thinks about the bolts you bought from Lowes.

.
Welll the bolts i use come from a very reputable hardware company. Unlike lowes i actually know who made them. Used them for years in extremely mission critical uses. No problems.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:25 PM   #436
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Show her this sticky
Lol, she has seen it. Her response was, Who knows more, a bunch of guys on the internet or a factory certified technician. I'll give you one guess what my answer was lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
Of course Synergy didn't have these custom made. If it was my core business focus, I would assemble a kit myself using ARP components and call it M998 bolt kit and sell them - but I have enough on my plate.
And ARP bolts I'd definitely pay more for and wait a little bit for. I've used them in the past in my performance car. Great bolts those!
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:21 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post

Who said anything about replacing with factory components?

The recent discussion is about having a dealer install the upgraded hardware per your findings.



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My points are that if a person had a dealer who tells him that installing upgraded trackbar bolts will void factory warranty coverage for the suspension:

First, it doesn't matter because a factory warranty that will covered the expense of replacing failed factory parts with new replacement factory parts is almost worthless;

And second, that dealer employee is a completely incompetent idiot if he thinks upgraded bolts would cause factory parts to fail--voiding the warrant on the factory shocks, suspension links, springs, etc.

The factory warranty only covers failures of factory parts that were not caused by abuse or be aftermarket parts. It only covers replacements using new original manufacturer parts.

If a dealer charges Chrysler for reimbursement of labor costs to install aftermarket parts or for the cost of aftermarket parts, it is fraud.

If a dealer refuses to repair failed factory parts simply because aftermarket parts are on the jeep, and when it is clear that the aftermarket parts did not cause the failure of the stock parts, they are violating the contractual terms of the warranty.

I'm not meaning to beat anyone up here--other than an idiot employee who believes upgraded bolts could cause factory parts to fail and void any part of the warranty.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post

Lol, she has seen it. Her response was, Who knows more, a bunch of guys on the internet or a factory certified technician. I'll give you one guess what my answer was lol.

If she only knew how poorly trained the dealer techs are about Death Wobble.

How many times have jeep owners with bad ball joints, worn drag link ends, under-torqued bolts, ovaled trackbar bracket holes, worn suspension bushings, and loose unit bearings left those certified dealer techs with new steering stabilizers?

In fact, the pathetic question is: How many times have they even checked those other components?

I wheeled Poison Soider with a Jeep engineer at EJS this year, and he still thinks its all a tire balance issue.

I asked him about how stretched bolts, fatigued metal, and heavily cycled trackbar bushings that results in insufficient trackbar bolt torque, which results in 14 mm bolts ovaling out bracket holes and prematurely wearing out drag link ends is fixed by properly balanced tires and throwing on a new steering stabilizer, and he almost refused to believe those things would ever happen with properly balanced tires.

I was astonished.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:49 PM   #439
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I had this problem on my 09 JKU. It was the steering shock dampener that needed to be replaces and it was covered by warranty.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:27 PM   #440
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I had this problem on my 09 JKU. It was the steering shock dampener that needed to be replaces and it was covered by warranty.
As set out in the opening post of this thread, the steering dampener is unrelated to DW other than insofar as it can partially mask the symptoms.

It is also the common, go-to explanation for dealership techs that are either too lazy to fix DW correctly or just don't know any better.

If you really had DW, replacing the dampener didn't fix it. Review the first post, take a look at the diagrams, and think about what symptoms you personally experienced. It should give you either some other explanations for what was really wrong (ie, it wasn't DW to begin with) or it will give you some other items to investigate because you're on borrowed time.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #441
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I replace the bolts on my 'we JKU, and now it seems that the steering wheel is crooked now.

I have to wiggle the wheel to align the track bar ends to fit the new bolts through. The instructions said to do this.

I had no issues with the front LCA bolts. I didn't do the rear.

Did I mess something up? Can I just realign the steering wheel with the drag link? Do I need to take it to a shop before something gets worse?
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:40 AM   #442
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I replace the bolts on my 'we JKU, and now it seems that the steering wheel is crooked now.

I have to wiggle the wheel to align the track bar ends to fit the new bolts through. The instructions said to do this.

I had no issues with the front LCA bolts. I didn't do the rear.

Did I mess something up? Can I just realign the steering wheel with the drag link? Do I need to take it to a shop before something gets worse?
yes. that's all you should need to do...
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:47 AM   #443
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yes. that's all you should need to do...
Thanks. I was just worried I messed something up since all I did was take a bolt out and put a different one in.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:56 PM   #444
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here's another "new" jeep guy that really, really appreciates this info.

i got the 99 tj about a week ago. the next day i took it out on some streets and got the death wobble. i had never heard about that before and i almost needed a new pair of shorts when it happened. it really did feel like the whole front end was about to come off, after only doing about 45mph. funny thing is, this never happened on the test drive before i bought it.

the tires were -shot- when i got it (i knew i'd have to replace them), like i don't know how the belts weren't showing yet. i replaced the tires and i haven't been able to reproduce DW since, although at the higher speeds (65+) it does start to just slightly shake. could be the bfg ats i got second hand though.

i've been doing -alot- of reading and -alot- of talking to the parts guys at the jeep dealerships and they swear that it's just the steering dampener. while i did order a OME dampener, i also feel that just masks the effects and doesn't fix the problem.

i also agree with the logic that while the steering components (sway bar links, drag links, etc) could contribute, it never did seem that those -made to be moving- parts could be the actual cause.

the diagnosis of the trackbar (and/or bushings) makes much more sense to me. so instead of replacing all the steering components first (although i am going to get new sway bar end links), i'm going to start with that track bar.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:36 PM   #445
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:19 PM   #446
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Damn. beat me to it
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:00 PM   #447
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OK, just received the Synergy Kit from QT. No instructions are included - I plan on changing these out when I install the Rancho 2" Sport Lift this weekend or next. Will it be pretty obvious which ones go where and which side the bolt/nut should be on? I'd like to think of myself as mechanically inclined, but I've sure screwed a few things up before. I saw that they also have another kit for the upper control arms - is that one recommended/necessary too? Anything else I should be looking to replace while I'm under there? '13 Rubicon stock wheels/tires and no aftermarket bumpers yet.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:40 PM   #448
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Wow, crickets on this one...... Bueller, Bueller........

I plan on doing my install this weekend and extending the breather hoses (axles and maybe tranny and transfer case). Anyone feel like giving me a couple tips or advice on anything else I should be doing while I'm under there and have some components off for replacement.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:20 PM   #449
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Yes. The bolts will be obvious. The shorter ones are for the trackbars and the longer ones are for the lower control arms.

Although it wouldn't hurt to do the uppers, they don't experience the same levels of force as the lowers. So, they are less important to swap.

The front trackbar bolts are the most helpful to upgrade.

There are many write-ups on jkowners and other forums for lift installs.

It is nice to have a person to help with the install.

Loosen all suspension bolts for the install--even if it is a component you aren't removing or bolts you are upgrading.

Don't retorque any bolt until after the full weight of the vehicle is back on the ground at the new ride height.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #450
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Is there a thread or location that will give me the torque specs on the factory suspension bolts that I am not replacing (upper control arms and misc fasteners)?

Thanks for the help!

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