Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 17 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:01 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoBobH View Post
Guess I have a lot of reading to do tonight, since I...

JUST FREAKING EXPERIENCED THE TERROR OF THE WARBLE!!!!

Holy Crap that was a wild experience, damn near bouncing off a residential but pocketed mountain road. Reading about the warble is one thing -- and certainly doesn't prepare you for the experience.

Hmmm, where to start.

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Start with the first posts on the first page of this thread, and watch the videos.

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Old 08-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #482
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I ended up adding adjustable lower control arms by teraflex, finally put in my adjustable track bar and then had the beast aligned.

Drives great, but only time will tell.

Comment on the LCA - crazy beefy monsters.

Regarding the information in the posts, tell me if I have this correct:

Ensure camber, caster, toe, etc. are all withing the specified range. Oh, and watch the video.

Did I miss anything?

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Old 08-28-2013, 11:54 AM   #483
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I've experienced dw on my 07 X unlimited last week I bought it used at 36k and now it has 105k stock condition and read this thread, but can't find anything wrong. First I undid the stabilizer and proceeded to check my track bar, but it has a 13/16th bolt on it instead of the 14mm (or is 14 the diameter of the shaft itself?) that is listed is this normal? To be on the safe side I went torque it down to 125lbs but it was pretty much set there already. Next I check the draglink and tierod everything seemed good then moved on to the ball joints and control arms wich are good. Any other suggestions?
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:35 AM   #484
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I've experienced dw on my 07 X unlimited last week I bought it used at 36k and now it has 105k stock condition and read this thread, but can't find anything wrong. First I undid the stabilizer and proceeded to check my track bar, but it has a 13/16th bolt on it instead of the 14mm (or is 14 the diameter of the shaft itself?) that is listed is this normal? To be on the safe side I went torque it down to 125lbs but it was pretty much set there already. Next I check the draglink and tierod everything seemed good then moved on to the ball joints and control arms wich are good. Any other suggestions?
14mm is the diameter of the shaft, not the head.

If you have done everything I show in the videos, then you need to go further and do everything I include In the inspection checklist at the beginning of this thread.

It is highly unlikely that the stock lower ball joints are still good at 105k miles.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:37 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by GonzoBobH View Post
I ended up adding adjustable lower control arms by teraflex, finally put in my adjustable track bar and then had the beast aligned.

Drives great, but only time will tell.

Comment on the LCA - crazy beefy monsters.

Regarding the information in the posts, tell me if I have this correct:

Ensure camber, caster, toe, etc. are all withing the specified range. Oh, and watch the video.

Did I miss anything?

Bob
You didn't miss anything other than if you still have problems after doing what I show in the videos, you'd need to do what I include in the written inspection checklist at the beginning of this thread.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:15 PM   #486
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It's stopped, but to be honest - in the back of my mind, any time I am driving, I wonder if it is going to happen again.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:18 PM   #487
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Non-DW Shimmy - Shop Rec Needed

My 18-year old college freshman has reported the Non-DW shimmy when turning left, usually at speed on the freeway, on our '09 JKUS. I'd like the consensus of which dealership in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area to have it seen by, as it's still under its extended warranty and tuition ain't cheap, even at a state school!

Thanks for your opinions and experiences, as I realize not all Jeep dealership service shops are created equal.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:26 PM   #488
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My 18-year old college freshman has reported the Non-DW shimmy when turning left, usually at speed on the freeway, on our '09 JKUS. I'd like the consensus of which dealership in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area to have it seen by, as it's still under its extended warranty and tuition ain't cheap, even at a state school! Thanks for your opinions and experiences, as I realize not all Jeep dealership service shops are created equal.
Have you watched the two YouTube videos and read the beginning posts of this thread?

Few dealer techs have the training to fix the problems.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:10 PM   #489
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Great videos and after watching I think I'm going to do some preventative maintenance.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:19 PM   #490
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planman, indeed I did and talked to my son about it, besides encouraging him to watch the videos. He's not in a place where he can easily get together with friends (most of whom I wouldn't trust with a spud gun, much less a tool) and try and make a better diagnosis.

I've asked in the Minnesota forum, and with luck, he may wind up at a fellow Forum member' place next weekend.

And yes, those are great videos!
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:57 PM   #491
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So quick question for you... I've PMd you about a week ago about welding washers to my track bar mounts due to ovaled holes, you answered that is the common fix so I'm doing this next week. My question is, kinda to get a better understanding from your videos and article, is that since I replaced the front track bar, it's torqued to spec and has no ovaled holes (when it's all said and done), this should mean I should no longer have death wobble because based on your article, you say how the track bar is THE cause of death wobble, and other steering components mainly just cause shimmies. Since the track bar is the component in charge of keeping the axle aligned, that should mean that if the track bar is within the correct spec, no death wobble should occur, considering death wobble is the case of all the components trying to fix what the track bar can not, is this correct? (Sorry for long question.)
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:11 AM   #492
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So quick question for you... I've PMd you about a week ago about welding washers to my track bar mounts due to ovaled holes, you answered that is the common fix so I'm doing this next week. My question is, kinda to get a better understanding from your videos and article, is that since I replaced the front track bar, it's torqued to spec and has no ovaled holes (when it's all said and done), this should mean I should no longer have death wobble because based on your article, you say how the track bar is THE cause of death wobble, and other steering components mainly just cause shimmies. Since the track bar is the component in charge of keeping the axle aligned, that should mean that if the track bar is within the correct spec, no death wobble should occur, considering death wobble is the case of all the components trying to fix what the track bar can not, is this correct? (Sorry for long question.)
DW usually starts with trackbar problems--worn bushings, improperly torqued bolts, ovaled holes, etc.

However, left unfixed, or masked with the steering stabilizer, it can end up taking out the ball joints, unit bearings, drag link and tie rod ends, steering box, control arm bushings, etc.

If those other components are damaged or worn, and all you do is address the trackbar, you will still have problems, and the trackbar (bushings, bolt holes, etc.) may end up with issues again.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:41 PM   #493
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Okay, I just received my bolt kit, but no instructions.
I included a picture of the bolts received, (nuts and washers not included in the picture).
Can someone tell me where these go? From left to right?
THANKS!
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:10 PM   #494
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DW usually starts with trackbar problems--worn bushings, improperly torqued bolts, ovaled holes, etc. However, left unfixed, or masked with the steering stabilizer, it can end up taking out the ball joints, unit bearings, drag link and tie rod ends, steering box, control arm bushings, etc. If those other components are damaged or worn, and all you do is address the trackbar, you will still have problems, and the trackbar (bushings, bolt holes, etc.) may end up with issues again.
Thanks Planman. Makes sense. So I went to a shop for the first time in my life today (I'm a DIY guy) because I needed someone with experience because I was done trying to guess what's truly wrong. I used your checklist and it has helped me perfectly. The owner is a friend, so I can tell when he's lying or not lol. We both sat under the while another person turned the wheel, and turns out my holes aren't ovaled... It's actually the bushing in my RK trackbar moving, and we also found the drag link to Pitman arm connection to be popping up and down, so I decided to get a JKS front track bar using the 9/16th bolts I already have, and replace that drag link end with a moog one. I think this should be the final fix, as I've already replaced all the other bushings. Wish me luck!
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:24 PM   #495
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Okay, I just received my bolt kit, but no instructions.
I included a picture of the bolts received, (nuts and washers not included in the picture).
Can someone tell me where these go? From left to right?
THANKS!
Instructions are on Synergy's site. Check it out, it should help you.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:00 PM   #496
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I just finished changing the lower control arms and the track bar bolts and it was not an easy task for one person. If you have air tools I recommend using them for removal of the bolts. To get to the bolt/nut on the lower side of the front trackbar, you need to be sort of a contortionist. I did not do the upper arms, forget that.
How I wish I had a lift. Doing this and reaching the 125 lbs of torque on the wrench on your back is not easy at my age.
I am glad I'm done with this...
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:47 AM   #497
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I just finished changing the lower control arms and the track bar bolts and it was not an easy task for one person. If you have air tools I recommend using them for removal of the bolts. To get to the bolt/nut on the lower side of the front trackbar, you need to be sort of a contortionist. I did not do the upper arms, forget that.
How I wish I had a lift. Doing this and reaching the 125 lbs of torque on the wrench on your back is not easy at my age.
I am glad I'm done with this...
I laid under my jeep with my back on the ground and my feet under the front bumper using my feet to bounce the jeep to get the trackbar bolt through. I'm a strong 300lb man though. And i do have a lift and didnt have toooo much trouble getting 125lb of torque on the bolts.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:44 AM   #498
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This was the best post ever! I just fixed my death wobble on my 08 Wrangle JK. Much better now. Thanks for the very informative videos.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:25 PM   #499
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Jus replaced the track bar and pitman/drag link end, everything else is sound. Aligning it tomorrow but I must admit I'm terrified to test it to see if it is gone. It only happens at 55+ On large pot holes so as you can imagine, If I still have it I will most likely break something else. I wish there was a safe way to test if I still have it. Everything up front is solid and feels good around town now... We'll see.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:23 AM   #500
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Track bar bracket axle side

2012 JKU with 47,000 miles.
Stock except for aluminum front bumper, winch and front leveling puck. Stock tire size but switched out to snow tire tread.
Experienced death wobble. Suspension bolt upgrade done previous to the DW by a garage. Not sure they did the best job, rear control arm bolt fell out a few days latter. They forced a 9/16 bolt through the 14mm frame side track bar bushing and 14mm bracket hole.
Looked at Planman's videos and diagnosed:
Bad ball joints.
Bad drag link ends.
Bad tie rod ends.
Bad track bar bushings.
Ovaled out track bar bracket bolt holes - axle and frame ends.

Have not checked the upper and lower control arms, but will.
Have checked wheels and tires for balance and roundness.

Seeking advise on:
The best axle side track bar bracket. Would prefer a bolt on since I don't weld. Not much to choose from for a non lifted Jeep.
Or would weld nuts be the way to go.
Teraflex track bar.
Tie rod ends.
Drag link ends.

Also looking for a shop in Montgomery County MD to weld the track bar bracket or weld nuts.

Thanks,
Michael
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:42 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by Michael Marlin View Post
2012 JKU with 47,000 miles. Stock except for aluminum front bumper, winch and front leveling puck. Stock tire size but switched out to snow tire tread. Experienced death wobble. Suspension bolt upgrade done previous to the DW by a garage. Not sure they did the best job, rear control arm bolt fell out a few days latter. They forced a 9/16 bolt through the 14mm frame side track bar bushing and 14mm bracket hole. Looked at Planman's videos and diagnosed: Bad ball joints. Bad drag link ends. Bad tie rod ends. Bad track bar bushings. Ovaled out track bar bracket bolt holes - axle and frame ends. Have not checked the upper and lower control arms, but will. Have checked wheels and tires for balance and roundness. Seeking advise on: The best axle side track bar bracket. Would prefer a bolt on since I don't weld. Not much to choose from for a non lifted Jeep. Or would weld nuts be the way to go. Teraflex track bar. Tie rod ends. Drag link ends. Also looking for a shop in Montgomery County MD to weld the track bar bracket or weld nuts. Thanks, Michael
Welding nuts on is a good option. You can beef up the mount or replace with something stronger. Most axle brackets raise the TB mounting point which can't be done stock or with smaller lifts.

Bolts fell out ? Assuming they never tightened them properly.
FYI .. You can not force a 9/16 into a 14mm. Assuming the bushing/mount hole was reamed for it to work.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:16 AM   #502
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Weld washers, not nuts.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:51 PM   #503
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Aloha all, newb here.

Picked up a lifted 07 2d rubi with 47k from a dealer here in hilo Hawaii back in October. On the drive home from the dealer had 2 episodes of dw, than another 3 the next day. Took it back to the dealer and as you guessed, balanced a tire, put on a damper, and sent me on my way. Was good for a few days, even got to wheel a little, than the drivers side tire fell off while driving through a parking lot. Lug nuts vibrated loose.

So it is now December and they still have the jeep. It is at an alignment shop who supposedly specializes in lifted vehicles.

Have read this thread cover to cover, good stuff. Thank you.

After over a month, the shop has just now determined that the front end components are shot.

Problem now is we can't determine the type of lift. Has heim joints, coil overs in the front and 3 link in the rear. And I have no known off-road shops here. The shocks are worn and loose, the lca's and uca's are loose, and the tre's and ball joints are shot. Dealer is paying for repairs, but we don't what parts to get.

I have had and lifted a pair of ramchargers, but this is my first jeep and I don't know what is stock or not.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:54 PM   #504
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Is this a rock krawler lift?
If so where might we find any markings?
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:28 PM   #505
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got me a nice little scare this morning on the way to work.


swapped my bolts in the track bar for the 9/16
the teraflex trackbar had some chew marks inside it.
AND my passenger ball joints are toast.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:44 PM   #506
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Drag link has a bow to it. Think that may be it
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:16 PM   #507
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Aloha all, newb here. Picked up a lifted 07 2d rubi with 47k from a dealer here in hilo Hawaii back in October. On the drive home from the dealer had 2 episodes of dw, than another 3 the next day. Took it back to the dealer and as you guessed, balanced a tire, put on a damper, and sent me on my way. Was good for a few days, even got to wheel a little, than the drivers side tire fell off while driving through a parking lot. Lug nuts vibrated loose. So it is now December and they still have the jeep. It is at an alignment shop who supposedly specializes in lifted vehicles. Have read this thread cover to cover, good stuff. Thank you. After over a month, the shop has just now determined that the front end components are shot. Problem now is we can't determine the type of lift. Has heim joints, coil overs in the front and 3 link in the rear. And I have no known off-road shops here. The shocks are worn and loose, the lca's and uca's are loose, and the tre's and ball joints are shot. Dealer is paying for repairs, but we don't what parts to get. I have had and lifted a pair of ramchargers, but this is my first jeep and I don't know what is stock or not.
That is a Rock Krawler kit that has been poorly maintained. Your wheel fell off because the dealer didn't torque the lugnuts.

You will probably need some replacement components from Rock Krawler.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:15 AM   #508
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Can someone please tell me why Chrysler doesn't do a bit better job with their design to avoid all this effort? I bought my 2007 JK as a low-mileage used vehicle in 2010 and the DW started immediately. The dealer didn't know jack about it. Should a committee from WF fly to Detroit and present the Wrangler staff with the results?
I agree. I bought a 2013 wrangler so I can take it camping, to the beach, hiking, etc. I bought this because I'm an out doorsy kinda guy, not so I can learn to be a mechanic. And when I read dealers don't know jack sh** about this, it makes me angry.

And what's worse is that they try and try to sell you on this extended warranty BS, but then can't fix this issue.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:13 AM   #509
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I agree. I bought a 2013 wrangler so I can take it camping, to the beach, hiking, etc. I bought this because I'm an out doorsy kinda guy, not so I can learn to be a mechanic. And when I read dealers don't know jack sh** about this, it makes me angry.

And what's worse is that they try and try to sell you on this extended warranty BS, but then can't fix this issue.
They do know about it, they just can't admit it...think about how many Wranglers are out there and multiply that number by ..oh lets say...$ 100...thats what it would cost Jeep to fix the problem. If you believe they can fix it for $ 100 you must also believe in the Tooth Fairy. Just costs too much.

They are kind of sneaking up on fixing it by changing the bolt to the frame in 2013..expect more small incremental "improvements" as time goes by. "Improvements" are not an admission of any kind, they are just "improvements", you know, like an upgrade.

Buy and install a bolt kit and don't let this get i the way of enjoying your Jeep.

Bob
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:33 AM   #510
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Location: Billings, MT
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You guys are overestimating the problem.

You don't need to be a mechanic to use a torque wrench to retorque your front trackbar bolts at every oil change frequency.

Even with the smaller stock bolts, a JK that is either stock or has a properly installed lift with correct designs will almost never see DW if they keep the front trackbar bolts torqued. These properly maintained jeeps very rarely see problems until their ball joints wear out.

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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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