Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 4 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:06 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noctrnl View Post
Dw sucks. All i have left is a small amount of shimmy that i can't find.
Is it speed dependent or random?

Can you drive out of it by going faster?

How even is your tire treadwear?

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Old 11-13-2011, 01:40 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman

Is it speed dependent or random?

Can you drive out of it by going faster?

How even is your tire treadwear?
Its more of a small shimmy after hitting a really upsetting bump. Other than that droves perfect. I use to have dw out of no where. Did an adjustable track bar and it was gone.

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Old 11-13-2011, 08:37 PM   #93
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Well, not going to get any help from chrysler, unless I drive around the country to a dealer,, so looks like I'm on me pat malone,, last jeep for me ,, cheers folks ,, thanks for listening
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:13 PM   #94
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Well, not going to get any help from chrysler, unless I drive around the country to a dealer,, so looks like I'm on me pat malone,, last jeep for me ,, cheers folks ,, thanks for listening
It really isn't that hard to fix.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:37 PM   #95
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Might be if you have the right gear and the know how ....
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:35 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by barrone View Post
Might be if you have the right gear and the know how ....
That is true, but it is not rocket science, and it doesn't cost more than maybe a couple hundred dollars to buy the right gear.

What you need to do the inspection:

Jack stands
torque wrench that goes up to 150 ft lbs
ratchet and socket set with some extensions
15, 18, 19, 21, 22 mm wrenches
floor jack
channel lock pliers
pry bar

As far as the know how goes, if a person prints off the picture in post #1 and follows the steps in #2, they shouldn't have too hard of a time checking things.


The primary sources of DW are trackbar related. It really doesn't take much know how to remove the front trackbar to inspect the bolt holes for ovaling, and then reinstall it with 9/16" grade 8 bolts instead of the stock 14 mm bolts.

It really doesn't take much know how to have someone cycle the steering left to right while you lie under the front of your jeep and look/listen/feel the tie rod, drag link, pitman arm, and trackbar for clunking or loose ends.


Even if that is too much, most areas have a local 4x4 club with members who are more than willing to help a fellow jeeper figure things out. Many local clubs have "Mod Days" where they get together to do modifications and upgrades at the same time.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:25 PM   #97
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Thanks planman, just had a chat with the dealer, think I know more than he does...I asked him if he'd experienced a death wobble ,, he couldn't give me a straight answer,, said he would discuss it with others at a meeting later in the week..
Think I'll go buy some more tools
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:16 AM   #98
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With an answer like that I would definitely be looking at your own tools or a local club!

But then its not an unexpected answer, we get the same blank stare from dealers down here when asking them the same question.

It could be that a lot actually know what you are talking about, but a little thing called deniability creeps in and creates the blank response....
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:51 AM   #99
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I am in the middle of having my JKU fixed forthis DW issues (pretty scary stuff when it happens at 60 MPH). I printed out artcle#1 and #2 for the dealership to follow. BUT.. that being said, once they give me back my JKU, I am taking to a mechanic that my local club has recommended and having them do the same check posted to ensure everything that should have been fixed is/was. I told the GM of the dealership, I will not sign off on the repairs until I am satisified that is truly is corrected. One thing I did notice is that the tires should probably be checked and for sure one replaced. (I'll probably change all 5 tires). The drivers side tire has a plug in it on the wall of the tire on the inside. I didn't notice that before until last week when the Jeep was jacked up on the lift. I don't think that is safe.

It's till in the shop and has been since 11/11. I'm in a rental (Ford Escape) since and missing my bigger ride. UGH!! But if it was not for this forum, I would not have known what the problem is and what to instruct the dealer to look for. Thanks Guys! YOU ROCK!
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:45 PM   #100
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Question Have they kind of ironed-out this death wobble thing on the 2012 Jeeps?

I plan on ordering a new Wrangler in February with delivery in late March or early April 2012. It's going to be fairly basic - the Sport S, two-door with the 6-speed manual and dual-top option.

I don't do a lot of my own mechanic work on a car. I plan to use this as a daily driver (second car) and will occasionally drive it on backroads in North Carolina's mountains or make a few trips to the Outer Banks and may have it on the beach ...

Question: I had never heard of Death Wobble until today ... and it sounds pretty freakin' awful. Most of the posts I have read describe 2007-08 JKs. Does this continue to be a problem for the newer JKs?
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:50 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LighthouseGuy
I plan on ordering a new Wrangler in February with delivery in late March or early April 2012. It's going to be fairly basic - the Sport S, two-door with the 6-speed manual and dual-top option.

I don't do a lot of my own mechanic work on a car. I plan to use this as a daily driver (second car) and will occasionally drive it on backroads in North Carolina's mountains or make a few trips to the Outer Banks and may have it on the beach ...

Question: I had never heard of Death Wobble until today ... and it sounds pretty freakin' awful. Most of the posts I have read describe 2007-08 JKs. Does this continue to be a problem for the newer JKs?
It is possible on any vehicle with a solid front axle, including the 2012 Wrangler. Keep in mind that it is very rare, almost non-existent on stock vehicles.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:02 PM   #102
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Thanks, Mike, I just re-read all the posts in here and that "planman" guy is pretty amazing. I am not planning to modify the Jeep, at least not lifting it, getting bigger tires, etc.

I see so many of these around and I cant imagine all these people are experiencing death wobble or they wouldn't be selling so many.

I appreciate your reply. I'm still gung-ho to get one.

Thanks - Dave
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:04 PM   #103
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Thanks for the kudos...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LighthouseGuy View Post
I plan on ordering a new Wrangler in February with delivery in late March or early April 2012. It's going to be fairly basic - the Sport S, two-door with the 6-speed manual and dual-top option.

I don't do a lot of my own mechanic work on a car. I plan to use this as a daily driver (second car) and will occasionally drive it on backroads in North Carolina's mountains or make a few trips to the Outer Banks and may have it on the beach ...

Question: I had never heard of Death Wobble until today ... and it sounds pretty freakin' awful. Most of the posts I have read describe 2007-08 JKs. Does this continue to be a problem for the newer JKs?
DW is something that can happen with any vehicle solid front axle (Jeep, Dodge, Ford, etc.).

One thing that I would recommend is for you to run down to your local Sears and buy a torque wrench that is capable of at least 150 ft lbs. You also want a 21 mm socket, a 3" extension, and a 21 mm wrench.

A torque wrench is a precision instrument. It should never be used in a loosening position--only a tightening position. It should never be used as a ratchet or breaker bar. It should never be used as a lever or hammer. It should always be stored at its lowest setting. It should never be dropped on the ground.

When you take delivery of your jeep, re-torque the front trackbar bolts to 125 ft lbs. They should be fine, but it takes less than 1 minute to do.

Then, at every oil change interval, and after every major offroading trip where the suspension was really flexed, re-torque the front trackbar bolts.

If you do this, you decrease the likelihood of ever experiencing DW.

This additional 1-2 minutes to re-torque suspension components at every oil change interval should be part of the normal recommended maintenance and service for Jeeps and Dodge trucks.

One JK owner took me up on this advice and re-torqued the bolts on his brand new jeep right after delivery. He re-torqued all 8 control arms and front/rear trackbars. He found several control arm and trackbar bolts were not fully torqued.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:17 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by planman View Post
Thanks for the kudos...



DW is something that can happen with any vehicle solid front axle (Jeep, Dodge, Ford, etc.).

One thing that I would recommend is for you to run down to your local Sears and buy a torque wrench that is capable of at least 150 ft lbs. You also want a 21 mm socket, a 3" extension, and a 21 mm wrench.

A torque wrench is a precision instrument. It should never be used in a loosening position--only a tightening position. It should never be used as a ratchet or breaker bar. It should never be used as a lever or hammer. It should always be stored at its lowest setting. It should never be dropped on the ground.

When you take delivery of your jeep, re-torque the front trackbar bolts to 125 ft lbs. They should be fine, but it takes less than 1 minute to do.

Then, at every oil change interval, and after every major offroading trip where the suspension was really flexed, re-torque the front trackbar bolts.

If you do this, you decrease the likelihood of ever experiencing DW.

This additional 1-2 minutes to re-torque suspension components at every oil change interval should be part of the normal recommended maintenance and service for Jeeps and Dodge trucks.

One JK owner took me up on this advice and re-torqued the bolts on his brand new jeep right after delivery. He re-torqued all 8 control arms and front/rear trackbars. He found several control arm and trackbar bolts were not fully torqued.
How is this in place of a torque wrench?
Amazon.com: Alltrade 940759 Powerbuilt Digital Torque Adaptor for 1/2-Inch Driver: Home Improvement

What do you recommend for those tight squeezes where it is hard to get to get a socket head in?
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:46 PM   #105
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Any idea why i still have a slight shimmy? Only if i hit a nice size bump.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:01 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by noctrnl View Post
Any idea why i still have a slight shimmy? Only if i hit a nice size bump.
It's a Jeep thing .. mine has shimmied from day one ....just have to be careful the gearstick doesn't kneecap you ...

2010 JK with wobbly wheels..................
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:16 AM   #107
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Any idea why i still have a slight shimmy? Only if i hit a nice size bump.
Yeah, its to do with the large heavy wheels and movement in the trackbar and control arm bushes. A heavier duty steering damper may reduce the shimmy over bumps, as probably would heavier duty (more solid) bushes for all suspension joints, and as would lighter wheels (smaller).

Its all a compromise, as stiffer bushes will increase ride harshness over small bumps and a heavier damper will make for heavier steering (though thats prob not a bad thing for most JK's), and smaller lighter wheels?? not likely!

Once thing I havent seen mentioned is what lift you have and what your caster angle is - lower caster will increase the tendancy to shimmy over small bumps as well.
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:57 AM   #108
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Any idea why i still have a slight shimmy? Only if i hit a nice size bump.

Mine is stock , and as I said , has shiimmied and shook since new ,, however considering the roads I travel , and pull a trailer every day , one bad death wobble is probably not too bad .
Went under neath while had someone do the steering from side to side ,, only slight movement in the track bar , but some slack in the pitman arm tierod join.
Will try new tierod , have torqued all the relevant bolts. seems a bit better.

Guess it's a trial and error thing , with a bit of luck and effort , hope to get it right. Bit hard to go back to a boring car after running around in this for 12months.
Anyone tried wheel spacers?
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:38 AM   #109
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Yeah, its to do with the large heavy wheels and movement in the trackbar and control arm bushes. A heavier duty steering damper may reduce the shimmy over bumps, as probably would heavier duty (more solid) bushes for all suspension joints, and as would lighter wheels (smaller).

Its all a compromise, as stiffer bushes will increase ride harshness over small bumps and a heavier damper will make for heavier steering (though thats prob not a bad thing for most JK's), and smaller lighter wheels?? not likely!

Once thing I havent seen mentioned is what lift you have and what your caster angle is - lower caster will increase the tendancy to shimmy over small bumps as well.

I had the Rough Country 4in lift 2.0 which was the worst lift ever. Gave me the worst death wobble,jeep was all over the road when driving, check out my video on the springs Rough Country 4in lift - YouTube . I now have a Rubicon Express 3.5 super flex lift with an adjustable track bar. My castor cant be changed on mine for some reason. the washers jeep made for mine have it so you cant change it unless i get adjustable upper arms for the front i guess. All my ball joints are tight on my wheels. Never had death wobble when stock and i had my 33s on the jeep before it was lifted. Now its just a slight shimmy on a nasty bump that last for not even 2 seconds. I think it may be a tie rod end or something. I use to have a drop pitman arm which made things worse went back to stock pitman arm no more bump steer at all.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:00 AM   #110
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Drop pitman arm cant be used on its own, it can only be used in conjunction with a track bar lift bracket to keep the drag link and track bar parallel to each other, other wise as you have found bump steer increases dramatically.

Sounds like you have the stock control arms and not yet fitted cam bolts (which is a good thing). In this case you have around 3.5 degrees of caster - not enough.

Two options then at this point, not including cam bolts as I dont like them Fit adjustable upper or lower or both control arms, or, as I recently did, fit the AEV control arm drop brackets. The brackets are quick and easy to fit, cheap in comparison to new control arms and also retain the stock bushes which are pretty damn good. Downside is they drop the rear of the lower control arm about 2in, only a problem if you are a rock crawler though.

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Old 11-24-2011, 08:48 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by SeaComms
Drop pitman arm cant be used on its own, it can only be used in conjunction with a track bar lift bracket to keep the drag link and track bar parallel to each other, other wise as you have found bump steer increases dramatically.

Sounds like you have the stock control arms and not yet fitted cam bolts (which is a good thing). In this case you have around 3.5 degrees of caster - not enough.

Two options then at this point, not including cam bolts as I dont like them Fit adjustable upper or lower or both control arms, or, as I recently did, fit the AEV control arm drop brackets. The brackets are quick and easy to fit, cheap in comparison to new control arms and also retain the stock bushes which are pretty damn good. Downside is they drop the rear of the lower control arm about 2in, only a problem if you are a rock crawler though.
That bracket kit is cool but i have an 06 tj. I have adjustable lower arms just not upper adjustable arms in the front.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:54 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by ThisJk38 View Post
How is this in place of a torque wrench?
Amazon.com: Alltrade 940759 Powerbuilt Digital Torque Adaptor for 1/2-Inch Driver: Home Improvement

What do you recommend for those tight squeezes where it is hard to get to get a socket head in?
This one is a good deal. I bought one:

Digital Torque Wrench - Holiday Special - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum

To fit into tight spaces, you need extensions and maybe a universal joint:

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-47824-2.../dp/B000NPPCL4



Quote:
Originally Posted by noctrnl View Post
Any idea why i still have a slight shimmy? Only if i hit a nice size bump.
Something else is worn. The only way to know is to go through the inspection checklist.

It could be ovaled out trackbar bolts, worn ball joints or unit bearings, worn front upper axle side control arm bushings, worn tie-rod or drag links ends, a worn steering box, etc. It could even be loose shock bolts/nuts.

If you have had DW even once, it is possible that many components were affected or damaged.

Multiple episodes of DW are almost guaranteed to damage other components.

I properly set up jeep should not have a shimmy.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:57 AM   #113
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That bracket kit is cool but i have an 06 tj. I have adjustable lower arms just not upper adjustable arms in the front.
Something else is worn or going bad.

Follow my TJ DW inspection checklist (post #2):

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/diag...ion-78090.html
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:04 AM   #114
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Well, following the list ,,, so far , have dropped the tyres from 42 PSI to 36,, checked for moving parts while swinging the steering ,,had a an alignment , torqued all the bolts, and it drives like a dream ....few minor wobbles ,, but all else good ,,,,, thanks for the help.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:40 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrone View Post
Well, following the list ,,, so far , have dropped the tyres from 42 PSI to 36,, checked for moving parts while swinging the steering ,,had a an alignment , torqued all the bolts, and it drives like a dream ....few minor wobbles ,, but all else good ,,,,, thanks for the help.
From what I understand about the checklist, isn't the DW supposed to NOT happen at all if it is done properly? This is my impression. I could be wrong. I just had MAJOR work done on my JK, got it back from the dealership the day before Thanksgiving and over the holiday and yesterday what started out as a small shimmy went DW AGAIN. Not as bad as what originally happened, but nonetheless, it's back again under the same conditions, slight bumps on the road.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:03 PM   #116
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I took mine in and had my tires rotated and balanced as well as an inspection. The front tires were out of balanced but I didn't believe that was causing the DW. Anyway I drove about 450 miles this Thanksgiving weekend and not a single DW happened until I got a half mile from home. I knew I couldn't have been that lucky that it was just the balance.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:38 PM   #117
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Quote:
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I took mine in and had my tires rotated and balanced as well as an inspection. The front tires were out of balanced but I didn't believe that was causing the DW. Anyway I drove about 450 miles this Thanksgiving weekend and not a single DW happened until I got a half mile from home. I knew I couldn't have been that lucky that it was just the balance.
That really stinks. So sorry for you trouble. I talked to the GM of sales today AGAIN, and he said bring the Jeep back and they would re-do the checklist and change my tires. Geez, this is so frustrating.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:20 AM   #118
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Exclamation Thanksgiving DW

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Originally Posted by Roadhawg View Post
I took mine in and had my tires rotated and balanced as well as an inspection. The front tires were out of balanced but I didn't believe that was causing the DW. Anyway I drove about 450 miles this Thanksgiving weekend and not a single DW happened until I got a half mile from home. I knew I couldn't have been that lucky that it was just the balance.

Your Jeep does not look like it is modified at all? Are you having these issues with a stock Jeep?
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:29 AM   #119
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Mine hasn't done the "Death Wobble " since the wheel balance, alignment, torquing the bolts etc. But it still shakes pretty bad when hitting bad bumps etc.
Then again , it has done that since new, and until I experienced the actual uncontrollable shaking, I wasn't really bothered by it , as the roads I travel are particularly bad.
Now , as I go through the list , I find it improves a little each time I do something.So, I'm hoping to keep it under control.
Sounds a bit slack I guess,but I think I'm winning.
From what I can gather , it seems it's a trial and error thing.
Not the ideal way to go , but at least I'm back on the road.
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:20 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by rjk5828 View Post
Your Jeep does not look like it is modified at all? Are you having these issues with a stock Jeep?
Yes... not modified at all

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