Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 5 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:55 PM   #121
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Sometimes in going through the checklist, people neglect to pull off the trackbar and each of the front control arms to inspect the bracket holes and welds, and the control arm and trackbar bushings.

This causes them to miss wallowed/ovaled out holes, damaged bushings, etc.

Sometimes, more than one thing is going on, and the inspection checklist has to be gone through more than once.

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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:04 PM   #122
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Sometimes in going through the checklist, people neglect to pull off the trackbar and each of the front control arms to inspect the bracket holes and welds, and the control arm and trackbar bushings.

This causes them to miss wallowed/ovaled out holes, damaged bushings, etc.

Sometimes, more than one thing is going on, and the inspection checklist has to be gone through more than once.

That's the next step... getting it up in the air and take the track bar off for a closer inspection.

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Old 12-01-2011, 10:39 PM   #123
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Well, my beast went back to the dealership today. They gave me a loaner. I personally gave the DW thread printed out in color to the GM and he in turn gave to the head service guy. He read through the papers and was impressed by the information. WHat I did was get up under my jeep and marked all the parts that were not replaced with red nail polish. Let's see what happens next.

I told them to follow the instructions in the checklist TO A T, to the letter DO NOT DEVIATE.

Once again, it is at their expense. AND, they are going to put on new tires as well at their cost.

Keep your fingers crossed I get back a Jeep that doesn't wobble.

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Old 12-02-2011, 10:19 AM   #124
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Good luck and let us know what they find out
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:01 PM   #125
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LOL. Love it when you have to resort to printing out information from a forum to give to the "professionals" so they can attempt to fix something.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:16 AM   #126
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GOt word yesterday that they are putting new tires on my beast. They "said" they followed the checklist and that they didn't find any issues. I told the GM of the dealership I'm not really confident about the Jeep. I have to drive to Dallas in a week and really don't want to have an issue with DW to or from - that's a 4 hour drive for me. I don't have to pay for the tires, but who knows what kind they put on there. I hope it's not cheap crap - we will see. Either way, the GM was sympathetic to my issue as I have made one payment on the Jeep and am going on my second and have only been able to drive it 3 weeks in the 2 months I've owned it. Keep your fingers crossed that this is the end of this crap.

My fear it that whatever was/is the problem is just going to continue and wear the tires the same way and I'm back at square one .. am I being too goofy?
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:15 AM   #127
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Well I hope you have better luck than I do ,,here in Australia , Chrysler and the dealers aren't interested , so you have to find your own way , or get rid of the car .

If your tyres are wearing , it should be either wheel balance , or alignment.

That's the most common reasons I know .. but bear in mind , I'm no mechanic.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:53 AM   #128
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GOt word yesterday that they are putting new tires on my beast. They "said" they followed the checklist and that they didn't find any issues. I told the GM of the dealership I'm not really confident about the Jeep. I have to drive to Dallas in a week and really don't want to have an issue with DW to or from - that's a 4 hour drive for me. I don't have to pay for the tires, but who knows what kind they put on there. I hope it's not cheap crap - we will see. Either way, the GM was sympathetic to my issue as I have made one payment on the Jeep and am going on my second and have only been able to drive it 3 weeks in the 2 months I've owned it. Keep your fingers crossed that this is the end of this crap.

My fear it that whatever was/is the problem is just going to continue and wear the tires the same way and I'm back at square one .. am I being too goofy?

I would think, but you never know about dealers, they would put the same brand of tires that's on it now. I know getting mine balanced and rotated seemed to help but I'm also going to take it in to a regular alignment shop to get the front end aligned and inspected again.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:57 PM   #129
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Oh this dealership needs some serious whipping. I got some mail the other day saying it was time for my 2008 Dodge Ram to come in for service and then got a post card saying I can trade it in on a newer car. I also got a call from them today saying come get your PT Cruiser .. WHAT???!!!! Seriously? Really?
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:46 AM   #130
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Oh this dealership needs some serious whipping. I got some mail the other day saying it was time for my 2008 Dodge Ram to come in for service and then got a post card saying I can trade it in on a newer car. I also got a call from them today saying come get your PT Cruiser .. WHAT???!!!! Seriously? Really?

LOL Once you get into their computer mailing list you're doomed.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:43 PM   #131
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Here is a video of a stock 14mm trackbar bolt in a stock trackbar bracket with a 9/16" hole.

This is why it is important to remove the trackbar to inspect the bracket holes for ovaling.

This is why it is a good idea to replace the stock bolts with 9/16" grade 8 bolts.

This is why it is important to re-torque the trackbar bolts at each oil change interval and after every major offroading trip.

Because dealers rarely remove the trackbar to inspect the bolt holes and replace the stock hardware with 9/16" bolts, they miss the most common source of DW.

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Old 12-09-2011, 02:51 PM   #132
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Thanks for the info planman
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #133
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New 9/16 trackbar bolts , torqued to 125,,,, seems much better
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:10 AM   #134
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The first video is about changing the stock 14 mm bolts out for 9/16" grade 8 bolts.

The second video includes tips on performing a DIY toe-in alignment.



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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:49 AM   #135
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The Beast it back. They put new tires on the Jeep. Goodyear Wrangler all terrains, I believe. THey "said" they followed the check list and found nothing else wrong. It rides smoother, with no shimmy at high speeds like there was before. The last bill the dealership ate was nearly $1500, and this bill was $982 for the tires, balance, alignment and new lug nut which they couldn't remove from one of the tires. Not sure why, they were the one't that took it off last time and put it on.

So we will see how this goes. I will be taking it for a second opinion and to re-do the checklist and MAKE CERTAIN we are in the clear.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:31 PM   #136
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The Beast it back. They put new tires on the Jeep. Goodyear Wrangler all terrains, I believe. THey "said" they followed the check list and found nothing else wrong. It rides smoother, with no shimmy at high speeds like there was before. The last bill the dealership ate was nearly $1500, and this bill was $982 for the tires, balance, alignment and new lug nut which they couldn't remove from one of the tires. Not sure why, they were the one't that took it off last time and put it on.

So we will see how this goes. I will be taking it for a second opinion and to re-do the checklist and MAKE CERTAIN we are in the clear.
Good luck
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:22 PM   #137
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Quote:
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This is why it is a good idea to replace the stock bolts with 9/16" grade 8 bolts.
Dumb question perhaps, but where does one find these bolts? An auto parts store? Home Depot? This is for anybody, not just Planman in particular . . .
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:37 PM   #138
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Dumb question perhaps, but where does one find these bolts? An auto parts store? Home Depot? This is for anybody, not just Planman in particular . . .
Any hardware store should have grade 8 bolts, nuts, and washers.

Ace, Home Depot, Lowe's, or other similar places will have them.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:45 PM   #139
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Dont know about over there, but down here I need to go to a specialist nut and bolt supplier to get them in that size at grade 8.

Though I do remember seeing on one of the 4wd places web sites a kit that replaced a lot of the bolts with the ones correctly fitting the holes! Beats me why they would do it in the first place. I mean if you are going to drill imperial holes, fit imperial bolts.

I believe they should be a fine pitch thread as per the stock ones (18 TPI from memory), not a coarse thread (12 TPI from memory), however I did noticed that AEV used the coarse thread ones in their kits.

Tests performed by Ajax Fasteners showed that the fine pitch threads are less prone to loosening from vibration:

Quote:
Conclusion:
The suitability of a coarse or fine thread for a particular application has to be determined on a
case by case basis. In general, both coarse and fine threads are capable of providing sufficient
strength for most applications. Coarse threads are easier to assemble and need less care; hence
they are more commonly used. Fine threads will, in general, have higher load carrying
capacities and higher resistance to vibration loosening. Fine threads are less tolerant to damage
and are easily cross-threaded and therefore require careful assembly.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:30 AM   #140
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Dont know about over there, but down here I need to go to a specialist nut and bolt supplier to get them in that size at grade 8.

Though I do remember seeing on one of the 4wd places web sites a kit that replaced a lot of the bolts with the ones correctly fitting the holes! Beats me why they would do it in the first place. I mean if you are going to drill imperial holes, fit imperial bolts.

I believe they should be a fine pitch thread as per the stock ones (18 TPI from memory), not a coarse thread (12 TPI from memory), however I did noticed that AEV used the coarse thread ones in their kits.

Tests performed by Ajax Fasteners showed that the fine pitch threads are less prone to loosening from vibration:
I recall reading somewhere that you may not have 9/16" bracket holes. Is that true? Have you pulled off your trackbar to test the difference in size between your bolts, bracket holes, and trackbar end bolt sleeves?
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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:27 AM   #141
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Yeah, same deal. Some of the guys down here were organising with one of the local nut/bolt suppliers to put together their own kit for all track bar and control arm bolts as none of them are the right size.

The only strange one we have is the steering damper we get is 12mm sleeves, so when I stuck on the Poly Performance damper relocation kit including the alloy clamp for the tie rod, the new bolts wouldn't fit through our stock damper as they were 1/2 in. Fortunately I had removed the unneeded sleeves from the PP sway bar links (as I fitted the disconnect kit too) so was able to push out the old 12mm ones and replace with the spare 1/2in ones.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:07 PM   #142
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I finally hit my limit on DW when it happened to my wife last Wednesday which was the third time that it had occurred on this Jeep . On Friday I became the owner of a Nissan Xterra Pro4X and the Wrangler is on it's way to becoming someone else' problem. So much for Buy American. Good luck to all of your guys.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:08 PM   #143
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I finally hit my limit on DW when it happened to my wife last Wednesday which was the third time that it had occurred on this Jeep . On Friday I became the owner of a Nissan Xterra Pro4X and the Wrangler is on it's way to becoming someone else' problem. So much for Buy American. Good luck to all of your guys.
Did you try to fix it before you got rid of it?
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:43 PM   #144
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So far mine is doing OK .. but I"m holding my breath.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:11 PM   #145
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There's some good/bad points in replacing the stock suspension bolts in the JK/JKU and-

The stockers are all fine thread industrial gr 8 (or better) bolts/nuts and the nuts have concave "crush" shoulders/w "force" threads-ie, the nuts won't unthread even after the torque lock has been compromised !!

Any time I add/replace a suspension bolt/nut, I try to get a stocker from the dealer---or use SS-gr 8/w nylock nut-

The Rockhard (HEAVY) skids/cages all use, gr 8 SS bolts/w fine thread/nylocks-and my jeep lives at 4200 ft/no/low humidity-very dry desert-

I'm OK, but I keep seeing these strange lights !

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Old 12-12-2011, 10:49 PM   #146
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There's some good/bad points in replacing the stock suspension bolts in the JK/JKU and-

The stockers are all fine thread industrial gr 8 (or better) bolts/nuts and the nuts have concave "crush" shoulders/w "force" threads-ie, the nuts won't unthread even after the torque lock has been compromised !!

Any time I add/replace a suspension bolt/nut, I try to get a stocker from the dealer---or use SS-gr 8/w nylock nut-

The Rockhard (HEAVY) skids/cages all use, gr 8 SS bolts/w fine thread/nylocks-and my jeep lives at 4200 ft/no/low humidity-very dry desert-
I do not recall where I read it, but I understand that nylock nuts do not give accurate torque spec readings due to the resistance from the nylon. This might be fine for armor, but I would be hesitant to use them with suspension components.

It would be best to use stover top lock nuts. However, I understand that a nut with a lock washer would be second best.

Poly Performance sells a grade 8 hardware kit for the JK:

Poly Performance JEEP/TRUCK & BUGGY*::*Suspension*::*Suspension & Lift Kits*::*Jeep Suspension Systems*::*2007-Current Jeep JK Wrangler Suspension Systems*::*Synergy Suspension*::*Synergy Suspension Jeep JK F911 Hardware Kit - 4X4 Off-Road Parts, JK



It replaces all the hardware in all 4 lower control arms and both trackbars.

Description:
High strength F911 hardware
Replaces the Lower Control Arm (LCA) hardware that gets destroyed from wheeling abuse
Replaces the Track Bar (TB) bolts which often get worn out from service
Includes hardened extra thick washers that will not deform or contort like standard washers

Kit Includes:

(8) 9/16-18 UNF x 4.0" long F911 bolts (LCAs)
(4) 9/16-18 UNF x 3.0" long F911 bolts (TBs)
(12) 9/16-18 UNF G9 Stover top lock nuts
(24) 9/16" Extra Thick G9 hardened flat washers

It may seem steep at $65, but it isn't easy to find the Stover top lock nuts in smaller quantities.

If you ordered 25 Stovers at $20, and then spent $2.25 each for the 8 bolts that are 4" long, $2 each for the 4 that are 3" long, and $0.50 each for 24 extra thick washers, you'd spend $58 gathering the hardware yourself to save $7.

Although the front trackbar is the one of biggest concern, it would definitely not hurt to upgrade the hardware for both trackbars and all 4 lower control arms.
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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:43 PM   #147
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Did you try to fix it before you got rid of it?
Yep, originally tried to get the dealer to fix it and they replaced the steering damper. The OEM damper didn't fix the problem, so I replaced it with a heavy duty unit. The heavy duty unit worked for a little while but the problem reoccurred so I decided that I wasn't going to rebuild the entire steering assembly to solve a problem that should have been resolved before Chrysler sold the first Jeep. It's a helluva' lot less stressful to just send the problem on down the road and call this a lesson learned.
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:13 PM   #148
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Yep, originally tried to get the dealer to fix it and they replaced the steering damper. The OEM damper didn't fix the problem, so I replaced it with a heavy duty unit. The heavy duty unit worked for a little while but the problem reoccurred so I decided that I wasn't going to rebuild the entire steering assembly to solve a problem that should have been resolved before Chrysler sold the first Jeep. It's a helluva' lot less stressful to just send the problem on down the road and call this a lesson learned.
All you needed to do is perform the inspection checklist in post #2 of this thread.

Other than using 14 mm bolts instead of 9/16" bolts for the front trackbar, it is not a Jeep or Chrylser problem. It is a poor maintenance problem.

The poor training of dealer techs is a problem. That is true.

DW is fairly basic to diagnose and fix through a simple process of elimination.
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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:44 PM   #149
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OK guys, I'm not sure if this is normal for my Beast or a Jeep in general but ... as you know I just went through a nightmare with DW. They replaced the track bar, steering dampner and upper and lower ball joints. After that still I had DW and they put all new tires all the way round on the car. I just got it back and it seems "ok" but today when I was on a long country road doing about 70 on a smooth asphalt road I had to break hard to not hit two bassett hounds. The front end of the jeep bounced, a bit like DW but not full on DW. Wondering if something is still not fixed or if this is something normal for hard breaking in a JKU 4 dr .. I know there is a lot of weight on this monster and it has a 2" lift and a heavy AEV bumper in the front. Any opinions?
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:53 PM   #150
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That is not uncommon with hard braking with a heavy front bumper.

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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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