Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 9 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:31 PM   #241
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Thank you for all the work in this! I think this will be one of my FIRST upgrades to my Jeep!

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Old 03-26-2012, 10:34 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurhip
Before anyone jumps the gun on my last post. A steering stabilizer can only due do so much. If there is looseness, the system vibration can exceed the dampening capabilities of the stabilizer (just like installing stiffer springs can overcome the damping of a stock shock). A broken stabilizer is evidence that something else is wrong resulting in excessive movement.

Planman's advice is sound. Follow it. He address the stabilizer inspection.
Thanks.

Like you comment, I don't advocate running with no steering stabilizer.

Fix the problem(s) first, then run a good steering stabilizer.

Some people comment that hydro assist is like a super stabilizer that will kill all DW. Still, they also advise to fix all the other issues first.

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:02 AM   #243
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Have there been any reports of DW in any 2012 models?
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:48 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukedallas View Post
Have there been any reports of DW in any 2012 models?
Read posts #1 and #2 to understand DW.

Any solid front axle vehicle with a trackbar, coil springs, and control arms is subject to DW if poorly maintained--including a '12.
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His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:36 PM   #245
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Im looking at Buy my JKUR tomorrow....this DW and replacing bolts has me wondering if i should wait until 2013 jeeps come out in June, any thoughts..is This is a problem with stock
2012 jeeps, or is after people add mods like lifts...

any feedback would be awesome
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:41 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaVa Crush
Im looking at Buy my JKUR tomorrow....this DW and replacing bolts has me wondering if i should wait until 2013 jeeps come out in June, any thoughts..is This is a problem with stock
2012 jeeps, or is after people add mods like lifts...

any feedback would be awesome
As has been said in this thread many times, it's an issue inherent to solid front axles. The 2013s will be no different than any wrangler that came before. It's an itty-bitty risk in a stock wrangler, and a large risk in a wrangler with a poorly installed or maintained lift.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:46 PM   #247
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Kool Man

Thx MTH....I guess im just blowing in out of context, read All the post again it dosent really seem to hard to fix if it ever becomes a problem....guess im being a little @#$%!, so close to making my purchase just want it to go smooth ....no what i mean...
Anyways thx again, and im still gonna order my JKUR Crush Baby should be a great day tomorrow.

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Old 04-08-2012, 11:58 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaVa Crush View Post
Kool Man

Thx MTH....I guess im just blowing in out of context, read All the post again it dosent really seem to hard to fix if it ever becomes a problem....guess im being a little @#$%!, so close to making my purchase just want it to go smooth ....no what i mean...
Anyways thx again, and im still gonna order my JKUR Crush Baby should be a great day tomorrow.

Peace
Buy a good torque wrench capable of more than 125 ft. lbs.

Buy a breaker bar and ratchet for 1/2" sockets.

Buy 21mm and 22mm 1/2" sockets.

Buy 21mm and 22 mm wrenches.

Re-torque the trackbar bolts and lower control arm bolts to 125 ft lbs. after you drive it home.

Re-torque those bolts at every oil change interval and after every major wheeling trip (i.e. after a multiple day wheeling trip).

If you do this, you will reduce the possibility of ever experiencing DW.

If you want extra insurance, buy a bolt replacement kit.

If you want to save a little money over the F911 kit, Northridge4x4 has a Grade 8 bolt kit for $45 and free shipping if you combine it with other items to total an $100 order:

NR4X4 Jeep JK Grade 8 Hardware kit
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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:01 AM   #249
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Didn't read through the entire thread but what causes this?
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:16 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist
Didn't read through the entire thread but what causes this?
You don't need to read the whole thread, but at least read the first post. That's the best possible explanation.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:56 AM   #251
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WooHoo! Looks like engineering failure lets me take tools to a brand new ride. I was wondering what my first project would be... BTW, outstanding research and troubleshooting!
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #252
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Thanks.
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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:20 PM   #253
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Question? i have a 2001 jeep grand cherokee with severe death wobble! i know its the trackbar from what i can see while someone is moving the steering wheel. My question is what if the hole where the bolt goes through on the mount is ovaled out from it being loose? what are my options? please help me.......thanks i appreciate it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:57 PM   #254
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If they are ovaled, you can weld washers over the ovaled out holes, you can weld plate over the brackets and re-drill holes, or you can replace the brackets entirely.
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His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:20 PM   #255
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hey guys im having some wobble, shimmies. its is not death wobble, ive experienced that before. i just had mt tires balanced because i thought that may be the problem, but its not. im running 35s on a 2.5 in lift. track bar bolts were properly tourqed. tie rod ends and drag link seem good. ball joints have no significant movement.

there is some slop however, somewhere, and the steering box seems to make a clicking noise turning the wheel back and forth. can something back in the streering box, shaft create problems. it happens at about 40-45 mph if the pavement is really uneven or hit a bump just right it starts to shimmie back and forth and a slow down a bit it goes away. above 50 mph there are no problems.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:34 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownR6
hey guys im having some wobble, shimmies. its is not death wobble, ive experienced that before. i just had mt tires balanced because i thought that may be the problem, but its not. im running 35s on a 2.5 in lift. track bar bolts were properly tourqed. tie rod ends and drag link seem good. ball joints have no significant movement.

there is some slop however, somewhere, and the steering box seems to make a clicking noise turning the wheel back and forth. can something back in the streering box, shaft create problems. it happens at about 40-45 mph if the pavement is really uneven or hit a bump just right it starts to shimmie back and forth and a slow down a bit it goes away. above 50 mph there are no problems.
If you perform the inspection checklist in post #2, you will find the problem.
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Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:47 AM   #257
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Replaced and torqued all suspension bolts as explained in kit....was good for a while , then DW happened again.,around 50,000 klms
Replaced trackbar with aftermarket stronger new one .......87,000 klms now , and no probs ...
Followed the check list as above.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:30 PM   #258
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Hey guys went through the entire list, alignments been checked tires were swapped and still have it just around 50 not instead of 30. Any more suggestions?
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:34 PM   #259
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Sorry for lack of info, 03 Tj,'put a 3.5 re lift and got very bad dw, the real deal not a shimmy. Replaced track bar tie rod ect ect
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:00 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownR6
hey guys im having some wobble, shimmies. its is not death wobble, ive experienced that before. i just had mt tires balanced because i thought that may be the problem, but its not. im running 35s on a 2.5 in lift. track bar bolts were properly tourqed. tie rod ends and drag link seem good. ball joints have no significant movement.

there is some slop however, somewhere, and the steering box seems to make a clicking noise turning the wheel back and forth. can something back in the streering box, shaft create problems. it happens at about 40-45 mph if the pavement is really uneven or hit a bump just right it starts to shimmie back and forth and a slow down a bit it goes away. above 50 mph there are no problems.
I have that same thing going on and I have been through the whole list. My steering box also has a click and I feel it in the steering wheel.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:27 PM   #261
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The steering wheel click was a simple fix for me. All I did was injected some grease into the boot of my steering column and after a day or so of driving I never felt it again.


BTT
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:38 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluke the 2
The steering wheel click was a simple fix for me. All I did was injected some grease into the boot of my steering column and after a day or so of driving I never felt it again.

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Yep.... I still feel a little feedback but the knock is gone after greasing.

I keep reading the Jk's gearbox is garbage . How true is that ?
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:37 PM   #263
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I keep reading the Jk's gearbox is garbage . How true is that ?
haha well, did you have a clunk as well? and how common is this damn steering intermediate shaft clunk? pretty common, eh? i'd say it's trash.

:cheers:
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:50 PM   #264
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^ yep had them re-grease the splines/boot whatever today. Here's to hoping it last for more than a few weeks.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:06 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Buy a good torque wrench capable of more than 125 ft. lbs.

Buy a breaker bar and ratchet for 1/2" sockets.

Buy 21mm and 22mm 1/2" sockets.

Buy 21mm and 22 mm wrenches.

Re-torque the trackbar bolts and lower control arm bolts to 125 ft lbs. after you drive it home.

Re-torque those bolts at every oil change interval and after every major wheeling trip (i.e. after a multiple day wheeling trip).

If you do this, you will reduce the possibility of ever experiencing DW.

If you want extra insurance, buy a bolt replacement kit.

If you want to save a little money over the F911 kit, Northridge4x4 has a Grade 8 bolt kit for $45 and free shipping if you combine it with other items to total an $100 order:

NR4X4 Jeep JK Grade 8 Hardware kit
Hey Planman, thanks so much for the excellent write up! I've just started experiencing a bad wobble at 50 mph on my stock 2006 Wrangler Rubicon. I've only got 22K miles on it but from what I've read, mileage doesn't seem to matter. I'm going to start the diagnosis per your checklist but I'm wondering if you're aware of any bolt kits like the one you mentioned here for but for a TJ?

Thanks!
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolly

Hey Planman, thanks so much for the excellent write up! I've just started experiencing a bad wobble at 50 mph on my stock 2006 Wrangler Rubicon. I've only got 22K miles on it but from what I've read, mileage doesn't seem to matter. I'm going to start the diagnosis per your checklist but I'm wondering if you're aware of any bolt kits like the one you mentioned here for but for a TJ?

Thanks!
You are welcome.

The torque specs and bolt sizes for the JK are different than the TJ, but the diagnosis principles are the same.

A speed dependent, easily replicatable wobble is nearly always tire/wheel related.

Watch my 2 new YouTube videos on diagnosing wobbles and shimmies. Also, I did a TJ thread a while ago. Search for threads started by me and you will find these.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:06 AM   #267
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^ Great videos. I ain't gonna lie...I actually watched one while falling asleep in bed. It was kinda like a lullaby, the sound of jeep talk, the clanking of moving suspension parts. I was out like a light.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:25 PM   #268
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Planman first off, thanks for such an amazing write up as well as the videos, watched them twice and went through the checklists very thoroughly to figure out what the heck was causing such a rough ride.

Second, I've determined the biggest issue is most likely my drag link, it has a very similar motion to the one from your video, if not worse than. My issue now is..

Anyone have the part numbers for the drag link replacements? I'm definately on a budget. I've read and seen that MOOG parts are decent? I've found possible part numbers...if anyone could check it out and confirm that I am about to purchase the correct items I'd appreciate it.
Just some info... 2007 bone stock.(not much info I guess? haha)
Looking to replace the drag link from the tie rod ends all the way to the pitman arm.

Right side - ES800593
Left side outer(at knuckle)- ES800594
Drag link at pitman arm - ES3624

Am I correct in these parts? Do I need any other items?

Thanks in advance, I appreciate it
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:32 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funyan005
Planman first off, thanks for such an amazing write up as well as the videos, watched them twice and went through the checklists very thoroughly to figure out what the heck was causing such a rough ride.

Second, I've determined the biggest issue is most likely my drag link, it has a very similar motion to the one from your video, if not worse than. My issue now is..

Anyone have the part numbers for the drag link replacements? I'm definately on a budget. I've read and seen that MOOG parts are decent? I've found possible part numbers...if anyone could check it out and confirm that I am about to purchase the correct items I'd appreciate it.
Just some info... 2007 bone stock.(not much info I guess? haha)
Looking to replace the drag link from the tie rod ends all the way to the pitman arm.

Right side - ES800593
Left side outer(at knuckle)- ES800594
Drag link at pitman arm - ES3624

Am I correct in these parts? Do I need any other items?

Thanks in advance, I appreciate it
I went through Krawl off road which ordered from Q-tec.
Morris 4x4 has a great diagram if you haven't seen it.
Going back, I wish I would of upgraded but I went all stock.

Replaced it all

Tie rod (left) TRE (knuckle) and adjustment sleeve.
Draglink (left) TRE (pitman) and turnbuckle adjustment.
Paid around $250 for everything shipped.

But you said "rough ride" are you sure you dont have something else going on ?

Tire pressure?
Shocks ?
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:30 AM   #270
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I'm quite confident its death wobble, both the video on the first page here as well as videos I've seen online are exactly what I experience. Hit a pothole and it starts shimmying hard, then it just keeps escalating till its completely shaking and I have zero control other than to just slam on brakes and hope nobody is behind me. I used rough ride as a very loose term and to put some lightheartedness in it haha.

Unfortunately, Ive had DW now 4-5 times and just now getting to fixing it. Replaced the bolts/torqued to spec and went through planman's techniques. After replacing the bolts alone and uninflating my tires(they were inflated to 35), the ride already feels a bit better.

Also, my steering stabilizer(which I know doesnt cause DW) is shot(presumably from the multiple DW experiences) so that'll be replaced as well.

Anyways, long story short, as I said I've come to the belief that its the drag link/steering stabilizer/loose bolts in the track bar/too inflated tires that sort of combined to cause a death wobble.

Those parts you listed, are those the part numbers I had from the last post? Total for the ones I had comes out to somewhere around $100 I believe. As I said, I'm on a budget and just trying to correct the DW issue, though I wish I could do more!

Thanks for the quick reply, and the extra info!

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