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Old 05-23-2014, 05:36 PM   #31
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That may be high caster. I have about 3.5 with an aftermarket DS and it drives well, but I am using the AEV drop brackets and OEM control arms.

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Old 05-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #32
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And if it is a littel high for caster, would adj. front lower control arms allow me to fix that?

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Old 05-23-2014, 06:24 PM   #33
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Lower front CAs, adjusted longer than stock or upper CAs adjusted shorter than stock (the former is probably more common). Alternatively, the $100 AEV geometry correction brackets with close-to-stock-length or OEM CAs...what I use.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:31 PM   #34
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Thanks. next questions...

1. How long are stock CA?
2. Pros and Cons of the brackets vs. ACA?
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:49 PM   #35
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I have used Rock Krawler CAs, Rokmen CAs, and OEM CAs of course. I find the OEM CAs the most comfortable though they will have less flex in more extreme articulation angles. With the brackets, your front control arms mount area (due to adding the brackets) drops a couple of inches so there is where you loose clearance. That is the downside. The upside is better geometry and far less brake dive...generally better handling. Till I go long-arm and coilovers, I will probably continue to use the brackets. You can still use your ACAs with the brackets IF your ACAs adjust down to stock length...most will.

Regarding the stock lower CA length- someone has to confirm this but I think is is 22 5/8".
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:56 PM   #36
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If clearance is not a concern rock crawling. The brackets work really well. Unlike arms geometry is changed and the jeep handled very well.
I'm running the Rancho brackets. W/ only one hole caster is less the higher the lift. I'm right around 3.5-4* which is perfect. Since you lost your stock shaft I would def take your lowers back a turn.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:56 PM   #37
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22 5/8 is correct
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:04 PM   #38
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Just searched and saw this- new AEV brackets for $80 (normally $100 plus tax here) in the Springs:

AEV JK Front Control Arm Drop Brackets

Not pushing you towards them but in case you're interested, grab them.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:52 AM   #39
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My current LCAs are not adjustable and I'll be putting a new stock front DS back in tomorrow morning (gotta love free!) until I decide which way I want to go with the aftermarket one.

Clearance is an issue with the rocky trails out here in CO. So maybe the brackets are not the best way for me to go... but $80 for that set you found HK is pretty tempting, even if for the short term.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
My current LCAs are not adjustable and I'll be putting a new stock front DS back in tomorrow morning (gotta love free!) until I decide which way I want to go with the aftermarket one. Clearance is an issue with the rocky trails out here in CO. So maybe the brackets are not the best way for me to go... but $80 for that set you found HK is pretty tempting, even if for the short term.
Try em .. You will need a set of stock lowers. I didn't realize you have non adjustable arms. That stinks !!
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:07 AM   #41
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Yeah, not quite sure why one would by non adjustable ones if they are replacing the stock ones. I just measured mine and from bushing bolt to bushing bolt they are approximately 24". I don't have any stock ones laying around, so the brackets are out I guess.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:12 AM   #42
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It is pretty easy to find cheap stock takeoffs. When I turned my last JK back to stock, I picked them up off CL cheap. i also sold my AEV brackets for $90 (of course, then I bought new ones again in short order). Either way, let us know how it all works out.
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Old 05-27-2014, 10:31 AM   #43
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Think I'm just going to go with some adj. lower CAs and the new stock drive shaft I've got in there now. We'll see how long that holds up. If the DS fails again I'll upgrade it. My thought process is that the CAs will give me better caster which could solve the DS issue and they are cheaper If I have to upgrade the DS later, at least I'll still have the benefits of the better caster from the CAs.
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Old 05-27-2014, 11:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
Think I'm just going to go with some adj. lower CAs and the new stock drive shaft I've got in there now. We'll see how long that holds up. If the DS fails again I'll upgrade it. My thought process is that the CAs will give me better caster which could solve the DS issue and they are cheaper If I have to upgrade the DS later, at least I'll still have the benefits of the better caster from the CAs.
If you have 4" of lift like stated in the other thread. Be careful with caster. I would shoot for 4*
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:52 PM   #45
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How much of a difference will lowering my caster by 1° make?
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:02 PM   #46
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Depends .. Hard to say.
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Old 05-27-2014, 04:23 PM   #47
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I think caster should be around 4 to 4.5 on the drivers side and 6 to 6.5 on the passenger side. More than this and your pinion angle is getting to far down and your steering effort will start to increase. Less then these numbers and the pinion angle gets much better, but steering gets light and you may need to be constantly correcting the jeep, as directional stability will decrease.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:33 PM   #48
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I think caster should be around 4 to 4.5 on the drivers side and 6 to 6.5 on the passenger side. More than this and your pinion angle is getting to far down and your steering effort will start to increase. Less then these numbers and the pinion angle gets much better, but steering gets light and you may need to be constantly correcting the jeep, as directional stability will decrease.
Say what... 2* difference ?

Simply put... 4-4.5 is a good starting point. But If running a aftermarket DS (and depending on lift height) he may need to be lower. 5-6* is pushing it at 4" of lift.

Here's RK's response to a caster question

We like 4.2 5o 4.5 degrees, but if you are at a really low lift height, you can push that number and not adversely effect driveline angles too bad...
RK
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:52 PM   #49
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Probably been 8 plus years of having alignments done on different modified jeeps at the same shop here in CO. It's a highly rated shop for this. And those are the settings they have always used. Just happened to do a search for "JK recommended alignment specs" and AEV has specs posted showing the same basic specs used by the shop here.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:00 PM   #50
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Probably been 8 plus years of having alignments done on different modified jeeps at the same shop here in CO. It's a highly rated shop for this. And those are the settings they have always used. Just happened to do a search for "JK recommended alignment specs" and AEV has specs posted showing the same basic specs used by the shop here.
Haha, Sorry I just looked at what I wrote earlier....way off!! Yes like you said I meant 4-4.5 and 4.2-4.7.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:03 PM   #51
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Phewww ... Worried me there for a minute. Lol
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:18 AM   #52
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Probably been 8 plus years of having alignments done on different modified jeeps at the same shop here in CO. It's a highly rated shop for this. And those are the settings they have always used. Just happened to do a search for "JK recommended alignment specs" and AEV has specs posted showing the same basic specs used by the shop here.
Who do you have do your alignments?
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:35 AM   #53
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Who do you have do your alignments?
Courtesy Automotive Service
210 S 8th St, Colorado Springs, CO 80905
(719) 632-2167
Open today · 7:30 am – 5:30 pm
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:54 AM   #54
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Courtesy Automotive Service 210 S 8th St, Colorado Springs, CO 80905 (719) 632-2167 Open today · 7:30 am – 5:30 pm
But any shop with a modern machine (Hunter HawkEye Elite) will be fine. Funny thing is you could go to three different shops and get three different readings. When you sit in the drivers seat, the alignment specs will change. I've just gone there for years. They aren't the cheapest place in town, but I trust them and that's worth the few extra bucks to me.

I also noticed the length to gave regarding your lower arm. Was that full arm length or approx. center to center of the bolts?
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:27 AM   #55
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Lowers only are set to 23 1/16 from center of bolt to center of bolt.
@ 4" of lift you should get 4.5 +/- of caster angle.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:45 AM   #56
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I have all adj. arms had a slew of objectives when installing them. I started with the rear arms then the fronts. I just checked my fronts, and without being precise they look to be at 23".
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:06 AM   #57
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Yeah, not quite sure why one would by non adjustable ones if they are replacing the stock ones. I just measured mine and from bushing bolt to bushing bolt they are approximately 24". I don't have any stock ones laying around, so the brackets are out I guess.
. Just went back and read this. If your uppers are stock, and yours lowers measure 24" on center bolt to bolt then you have way to much caster and your pinion angle is way low.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:18 AM   #58
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. Just went back and read this. If your uppers are stock, and yours lowers measure 24" on center bolt to bolt then you have way to much caster and your pinion angle is way low.
Yep .. We determined this already.
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:22 PM   #59
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I'll have to look at the uppers and see if I can tell if they are stock or not.
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:25 PM   #60
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But any shop with a modern machine (Hunter HawkEye Elite) will be fine. Funny thing is you could go to three different shops and get three different readings. When you sit in the drivers seat, the alignment specs will change. I've just gone there for years. They aren't the cheapest place in town, but I trust them and that's worth the few extra bucks to me.

I also noticed the length to gave regarding your lower arm. Was that full arm length or approx. center to center of the bolts?
I used to take my heavily modified car to Rex Tire and Custom Wheel and was very happy with them (in everything they did), but have only taken the Jeep to 4WP for the alignment after replacing the ball joints.

I too new to lifted vehicles to know how/what an alignment should result in... or if the operator needs to know about lifted Jeeps to do one properly.

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