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Old 12-24-2013, 09:23 PM   #1
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For all the wiper swiping, dash lights flashing, gauge bouncing issues....

Key points -
wipers do a single swipe, or short series of swipes
dash lights all light up, dash makes the bing sound
speedometer gauge bounces up and down

rpm gauge doesn't move
no loss in power
no odd shifting
nothing to indicate anything else abnormal

I'm hoping this may help others, since although it makes some sense, it also doesn't from what I've been told and seen before. Generally it's accepted that items like the SPOD won't cause issues, because they are connected directly to the battery and grounded, and therefore don't go use the Jeep's CANbus or TPMS. Using these items, or others using a direct-to-battery harness is considered a safe bet, and even I was taken aback a little by my recent find.

I was driving home from work with another Jeeper, and we turned our CB's on to talk. I had no previous issues with the CB or the Jeep, and my CB is hard wired - hot to battery, ground to an o-ring terminal on the grounding post in the front passenger footwell where the other Jeep harnesses are grounded.

First he said he couldn't hear me well, I was clear, but not loud. I thought the CB setting was off, maybe I bumped a dial. I keyed up a few times to see if he could hear me any better, and my headunit rebooted almost every time. I keyed up again for about 5 seconds and then it happened, a single swipe of the wipers, and my dash lit up and went crazy, the speedometer bounced, ABS, ESP, brake, brights, all of them flashed on and then off again. No loss in power, nothing indicating it was the Jeep having the issue.

I called back to him to pull over, just in case, and we pulled into a parking lot nearby. He came over and I told him what happened. My Jeep was still running, so we tested some things out. I could hear him ok, but not as loud as it could be, especially with us sitting side by side. I tuned every dial again, and keyed up, and we both watched the headunit reboot again.

I told him how everything lit up on the long key, so I keyed up again for 5 seconds or so - it did it again perfectly. The wipers swiped, the dash lit up, the speedometer bounced - but the Jeep ran smooth throughout.

We poked around and he pointed out my mic wire was crushed a bit. It had been that way awhile, I never thought much of it. I had someone slide the front seat forward and into the mic months ago, but I hadn't been using the CB much.

So we swapped mics. He didn't key up using my mic, just in case (can't blame him much), but I keyed up and he could hear me loud again. I keyed up for 10 seconds and no issues anymore at all. I tested again later with my old mic, yep, it's the mic somehow - and it's causing the Jeep to act up.

Now, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself, I would think that's crazy - it's an "independent system", but somehow it's doing it. I haven't tested one other area I've thought of doing, but I'm not sure I'll get to it either. I was thinking of grounding it separately from the Jeep harness grounding post. Technically, it would still be grounded to the Jeep so I'm not sure it would make a difference - one reason I didn't test it.

At any rate, I put in another mic I had at the house, no more issues again. All I can think of is that there has been an issue in the ground fault somewhere that tripped the Jeep.

There are so many posts I have read here that have similar issues, and quite a few talk about having things wired separately with an SPOD or wired directly to the battery. I hope this can help someone else fix their dash flashing, warning lights, wipers swiping issue.

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Old 12-26-2013, 10:39 PM   #2
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Good idea, but my Jeep started doing it. And my CB is off, and the mic removed and stored in the garage.


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Old 12-27-2013, 12:24 AM   #3
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This doesn't just apply to a CB, it's just how I found my issue. The point I am trying to make is that there an be things you don't think are related to the issue you are having, but they are causing it somehow.

I would never think my CB mic having a busted wire in the cord would cause my wipers to swipe, and my dash to light up, and gauges to bounce - but it did. If I hadn't been able to connect the action of the mic, to the electrical issues the Jeep was having, I would have taken it to the dealer, and the dealer would have found nothing wrong. I would then be pissed off even more because they would tell me I'm nuts basically.

I would be about then I would tell them what happened and they would tell me the CB is doing it (if I'm lucky), and then tell me I'm going to screw up the Jeep too. Then I would have been more pissed.

Now, if you have no electrical mods, this won't apply. All I'm saying is that it's worth the 5-10 minutes it takes to check it out, maybe disconnect the electrical item as well, and see if that fixes it.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:40 AM   #4
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@ scottmphoto - I watched your video again. The order of events is interesting, you switched lanes, then the brake and esp came on, followed by the drop in rpm's and abs, ending with the sway bar light as the rpm's recovered. The only light remaining is the esp.

Have you had the wheel sensors checked and is the track bar adjusted to center and the steering wheel straight when you are driving straight?

Also, have you checked the battery cables and battery itself? There was a bad batch of batteries too, I ended up with one of those a few months back - it leaked and was bulging.
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:51 PM   #5
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I just posted this exact same issue in the communications forum before I found this post.

Mine is doing the same thing. CB has worked fine for almost a year. Now whenever I transmit, for a few seconds all the instrument lights come on, my headlights come on, and my wipers make a few swipes.

I don't see any problems with my mic cable but I suppose I could borrow one from someone and see if the problem persists.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:04 PM   #6
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Following up on this....my issues HAD gone away for quite some time. I recently moved my antenna to another mount (due to selling my previous mount) and I'm having the same issue again. Tried using a buddy's mic but the issue still occurred.

Is driving me CRAZY!!!!!

Tomorrow I'm going to try a few more things:
1) My CB has 3 wires (1 for ground, one for 12V constant and the 3rd is set to a 12V on w/ ignition). I'm going to move that 3rd wire to the 12V constant.
2) My grounded through my gate so am going to run a new ground from the mount to the chassis.
3) My friends spare mic was pretty old so will pick up a new mic.

For me it's going to be harder to know when I have it resolved asit's intermittent.....I can talk on the CB for 30 minutes straight with no issues then suddenly this problem happens. Then it randomly goes away. I'm about to loose my mind over this.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:12 PM   #7
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^^^It sounds like you have RF bleeding into you computer system.

How high are your SWRs?
Is your CB antenna base grounded good?
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dogger View Post
^^^It sounds like you have RF bleeding into you computer system. How high are your SWRs? Is your CB antenna base grounded good?
SWR was 2.0 as I recall.

Grounded good as far as I know but have read the gate isn't good for a ground. Will run a ground to chassis tomorrow. Just did item #1 above.

EDIT: I can confirm solid ground at all points that should have a ground. This includes the outer part of the coax at the radio end.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:20 PM   #9
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Did some more testing.

Drove around the block and found issue still exists. But is very intermittent. No rhyme or reason to it.

One thing I did find.....when it does occur, it doesn't happen as soon as I key the mic. It happens when I actually speak into the mic.

Am going to ground the gate tomorrow and see if I can pick up a new mic.

After that I have no idea what to try.
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:29 AM   #10
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When you talk into your MIC, your are getting RMS, plus PEAK modulating power. So what you are saying makes sense!

So start by grounding your antenna to the frame, then try to get your SWR (standing wave ratio) below 1.5, flat is the best. Because what is happening, is you are getting RF, that is radiating off of you coax cable, because of the 2.0 SWR.

Another way of looking at it is, if you have a garden hose with some pin holes in it. With the hose opened on one end and you turn on the water, then very little will leak out of the pin holes, because the water is flowing without much resistance. Now, try pinching off the end of the hose,and watch the water squirt out the holes. This is the same thing that happens on a length of Coax, only it's RF that is leaking off of the line, because the SWR, is pinching off the coax line!

I have been a Ham extra class radio operator, for about 45 years, so trust me on this one!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:49 AM   #11
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Makes sense to me!

Questions: Why would it be so intermittent and why did it work for a year with no issues? Just curious.

Thanks
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:32 AM   #12
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Also found this thread.

CB/aftermarket radio not playing nice

Can't hurt to unplug my PAC and see what happens.
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:48 PM   #13
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Removing the PAC didn't work.

About to order new coax as well.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:41 PM   #14
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^^^Yes, new coax is a good idea, and (now don't laugh), wrap the coax in tin foil if needed, because tin foil shields RF..........
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
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^^^Yes, new coax is a good idea, and (now don't laugh), wrap the coax in tin foil if needed, because tin foil shields RF..........
Hey, I'll try anything at this point. LOL

Will run the new coax without tucking it away and see what happens. Also adding a right angle connector at the radio end as the mount location was putting a good bend in the coax. Want to also rule out a short because of it.

Also ordered a new mic. Figured may as well replace everything but the radio.

Parts will arrive in a few days. Will keep ya posted.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:17 PM   #16
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Let me give you a perspective that may help you pursue a remedy for the obvious case of common mode radiation that is giving the JK TIPM fits.

All antennas that present a characteristic impedance, that does not match the impedance of the transmission line, will return the reflected power (that was not radiated because of the impedance mismatch) to the outer conductor of the coax cable. This can amount to an appreciable level of RF that radiates into the cab of the vehicle.

You can be certain that it is common mode radiation that is causing your problem.

Common mode currents will always be present, since a perfect match is impossible to achieve in a real world application.

What has caused so much confusion, in this case, is the apparently random appearance and disappearance of the symptoms.

First thing to know is that the vulnerability level of the TIPM is fixed as it is a passive (in this case) device.

The second thing to know is that the reflected power from the antenna is widely variable because the antenna impedance is widely variable because of "Near Field Loading". Anything conductive within one wavelength of the vehicle will change the antenna loading and thus the VSWR. This includes the changing location of the vehicle with regards to trees, buildings as well as soil conductivity.

The third thing, to know is that the threshold of disruption of the TIPM is very narrow. A very small amount of common mode radiation increase will bring about disruption if the common mode field is very near the TIPM threshold of vulnerability.

Normal degradation of components and changes of vehicle configuration and vehicle surroundings will cause measurable changes in VSWR. You have already noted a less than ideal level of VSWR and all your efforts should be put into bringing it as low as possible.

You will never eliminate reflected power and common mode currents but you can bring them below the TIPM malfunction threshold.

If normal antenna refinements fail to bring down the VSWR, it is possible to install a choke at the base of the antenna (external to the cab) to reduce the common mode current inside the vehicle. This is a technique widely used by hams and is well documented on the net.


Good luck
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:02 AM   #17
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An additional thought, after re reading your initial post. You mentioned ground changes. Normally this would not be a thing I would recommend, but in this case, being so obviously close to the TIPM threshold, it might be worth a try, but only after you have brought down your VSWR. By changing a key ground location, it is possible, in theory, to change the path of the common mode current that has entered the TIPM connectivity, and affect the disruption. Won't be able to quantify (measure) it however.


Your observation regarding the microphone falls within the uncertainty of the TIPM threshold and while interesting, is not conclusive. I have worked systems where microphone position, cord compressed, stretched, etc had effect that was not related to microphone defects. Not all devices can be relied upon to behave identically, in all cases in a strong RF field.

Phil
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:37 PM   #18
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Ran a ground from the antenna to the chassis just in case I wasn't getting a good ground via the gate. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet.

New mic and coax arrive Friday.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:06 PM   #19
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Ran a ground from the antenna to the chassis just in case I wasn't getting a good ground via the gate. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet. New mic and coax arrive Friday.
Welp, that didn't do any good.

Will try again Friday when new parts arrive.

This is nuts.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:55 PM   #20
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Cheer up

I did a quicky, temporary, install on my '14 JKUR for my trip to Alaska and did every thing "wrong" (even though I'm a retired tech) and had no problems. All temporary except for the antenna mount which I would "roast" any one else for doing and it worked well enough. VSWR was about 2. and had no squawks from the Jeep. You can nail it!

Phil
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:58 PM   #21
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Cheer up I did a quicky, temporary, install on my '14 JKUR for my trip to Alaska and did every thing "wrong" (even though I'm a retired tech) and had no problems. All temporary except for the antenna mount which I would "roast" any one else for doing and it worked well enough. VSWR was about 2. and had no squawks from the Jeep. You can nail it! Phil
Thanks.

Am desperate at this point so also ordered some ferrite chokes this afternoon.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:07 PM   #22
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Just got an update that new parts will arrive today.

Plan to add the right angle connector and run the coax from the antenna, thru the cab to the radio and just see what happens.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:08 PM   #23
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Ok, now I am PISSED.

Cleaned up all my wiring (just to be safe), put on a new mic, and ran the new coax from the gate, right through the cab and to the cb.

The minute I keyed the mic my system lit up like a disco club, along w/ the wipers activating.

WTF????? This system worked without issue for close to a year before this started.

I've got the ferrite chokes on order but they won't arrive until some time next week (and they probably won't do any good).

Anything else I can try? I'm out of ideas here.
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:58 PM   #24
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Did some more testing and found something unusual.....I have a switch on the dash that powers my amp. When the stereo is on, it powers the switch, which is an "always lit" switch. Right now the stereo is disconnected and I don't even have the ignition turned on. When I speak into the mic, the switch sort of lights up. WTH?
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:40 PM   #25
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Ok. Found a repeatable test regarding the feedback that was lighting up the switch. Cb in rear tub, feedback. Cb on center console, no feedback. Cb in mount, feedback. So I am leaning back to RF feedback that is energizing the lines when near a ground. Best I can do is try the chokes when they get here. If that doesn't work I'll have to junk the cb.

Am I making any progress here? Or should I just throw my CB and gear in the trash at this point?
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:42 PM   #26
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Ordered a new cb as I couldn't find anything else to fix.

Stay tuned.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:00 PM   #27
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Ain't confusion grand??

We have to start some where and work from that point outward. A systematic approach with changing one variable at a time will almost always lead to a successful result.

We (I) know the basic problem is caused by excessive VSWR.

A contributing factor could be extra wiring and components added to the vehicle. The OEM wiring plan is designed to minimize your kind of problem. The engineering department spends a lot of time to "harden" the vehicle against just this kind of thing. Any thing added after manufacture can be problematic, but..for now we should work elsewhere.

As an experiment, I suggest you string your antenna cable from the radio, out side the vehicle to the antenna. Keep the radio in the position you plan to use it. Test the CB transmitter and see what happens. This will remove as much of the common mode radiation as is possible from the cab and inside wiring. The radio chassis must have a ground from the case to metal of the vehicle cab for best results. This is important. This exercise may indicate a possible improvement is possible by re routing the coaxial cable.

If this makes an improvement, then we can plan from there.

It is imperative that you bring down the VSWR to 1.2 / 1.5 or better.

If you do not have a SWR meter, beg borrow, or otherwise acquire one.

Adding a longer, tunable antenna may allow you to improve your numbers to a useable point, but in the end, you may have to relocate the antenna. Some joy may be had with the ferrite choke approach but this depends on many variables that have not yet been discussed.

I do not expect another radio to be an improvement unless it puts out LOWER power than what you have.

If these steps don't appeal to you, I don't have much else to offer.

Good luck
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:09 PM   #28
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I tried running the coax outside the vehicle....issue persisted.

I do understand all of the possible causes that have been explained to me, but at this point I'm 99% certain it's a failure in the radio itself. I did systematically change/test everything single part of the system today and the only time I could get the issue to randomize itself was when I wiggled the wires coming out the back of the unit.

A radio issue would explain why it worked fine for a year and then was intermittent once the issue started. I can't see a feedback issue cropping up out of nowhere, but I could be wrong.

I appreciate the advice. If the new unit doesn't work, then so be it I have to try it.

I think the part that confuses me the most was the ungrounding the radio unit made the issue go away completely. One person I talked to said that if there was a short in the wiring, it could be bleeding power to the ground. Sort of makes sense to me, but I'm not an electrical expert. I'm comfortable working w/ wiring but that doesn't make me a pro. LOL
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2012 Cherry Red JK
TF 2.5 Coils w/ Billstein 5100 Shocks
17x8 Black Rock D-Window Alloys
315/70/17 GY Duratracs
4:56 Gears - LSD in Rear w/ Ten Factory Chromoly Shafts
TF HD Diff Covers
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:22 PM   #29
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Replacement cb arrives tomorrow. Cross your fingers for me that my issue gets resolved. I'm not confident it will but is worth a shot.
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2012 Cherry Red JK
TF 2.5 Coils w/ Billstein 5100 Shocks
17x8 Black Rock D-Window Alloys
315/70/17 GY Duratracs
4:56 Gears - LSD in Rear w/ Ten Factory Chromoly Shafts
TF HD Diff Covers
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Old 09-08-2014, 02:02 PM   #30
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I know it sounds stupid but check your battery terminals. My ground terminal was loose on my 2012 JKU. Lights, bells and speedometer fluntuations galore, then they would go away.
My ground terminal was just a little bit loose on my battery.
I had to take the terminal off my battery and squeeze the cheap OEM pot metal ground terminal together to get the ground terminal to tighten up on my battery post.
After that, No Problems!

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