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Old 08-19-2014, 10:09 PM   #1
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Front tires "cupping"

So noticed the drivers side front tire was cupping pretty bad. Passenger side also, but not as bad. Haven't had a chance to look around underneath yet. Did have friend drive along side me on the highway today to see if the tires were bouncing. He said the rebound looked a little off when hitting a bump, but seemed fine. I'd thought he'd see the tire bouncing up and down since cupping is usually a bad shock. I did get the front axle hung up in a stump a couple of weeks ago wheeling. Can't image that cause this issue, should be able to get under there tomorrow and take a peek.

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Old 08-19-2014, 10:16 PM   #2
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I had someone tell me that I hadn't rotated them enough. Mine had been rotated every 6K at least. I only have one cupping on me. I'm thinking that they would all be like that if I hadn't rotated them enough. I'm leaning towards a balance issue as I can feel some effects at certain speeds. Since I have 98K, almost 99, I'll be replacing them soon so I'm not too concerned.

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Old 08-20-2014, 08:30 AM   #3
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What tire, and how much air?
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:36 AM   #4
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What part of the tread is cupping on you? This can sometimes be a sign of something wrong in the suspension (ball joints/bent something)
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:20 AM   #5
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Tire pressure is at the factory 37psi.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:54 AM   #6
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Dealer had been servicing it since a few free oil changes. So they have been rotating them according to the mfg schedule.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:08 AM   #7
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Unbolt and cycle each shock.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:11 AM   #8
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Not enough rotation....3K miles should be the rotataion schedule for Mud-terrains to avoid cupping...but other causes could be suspension components balljoints or shock.
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:40 PM   #9
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It sounds like a classic case of a worn suspension component (shock, ball joint, bearing, bushing, etc) possibly coupled with an out of balance wheel. Have you ever changed your ball joints?

Start by performing a simple front end shock test.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:44 PM   #10
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It sounds like a classic case of a worn suspension component (shock, ball joint, bearing, bushing, etc) possibly coupled with an out of balance wheel. Have you ever changed your ball joints?

Start by performing a simple front end shock test.
It's a 2013 with about 23K ,miles, haven't replaced anything. Dropping at the dealer to see what the issue is and if its under warranty. If not, I'll fix it myself.
What ever it is, it is affecting both front wheels. So guess both sides ball joints could be bad. Don't think its the shocks, there is no wheel hop or bouncing going down the highway. Had a friend watch the other day.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:46 PM   #11
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What tire, and how much air?
Factory BFG Mud Terrain T/A KM.

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Old 08-20-2014, 10:01 PM   #12
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It's a 2013 with about 23K ,miles, haven't replaced anything. Dropping at the dealer to see what the issue is and if its under warranty. If not, I'll fix it myself.
What ever it is, it is affecting both front wheels. So guess both sides ball joints could be bad. Don't think its the shocks, there is no wheel hop or bouncing going down the highway. Had a friend watch the other day.
Being so new and having so few miles, I really can't possibly imagine anything having gone bad. Unless you hit something, it might just be they weren't rotated enough and so it's just causing itself to get worse and worse.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:31 AM   #13
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Dealer had been servicing it since a few free oil changes. So they have been rotating them according to the mfg schedule.
Wanna bet they haven't rotated the tires?
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:03 AM   #14
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Wanna bet they haven't rotated the tires?
They did rotate them. And I don't think lack of rotating would cause this bad of cupping in such a short period.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:10 AM   #15
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What's the Toe angle set @?

I don't want to sound like I'm talking down. But it may be feathering from Toe angle....

One mans cup is anothers feather.

Back in ~02 I found that many many many GM 1/4 ton trucks were coming in with abnormal tire wear that many described as cupping. It was feathering IMO but that really doesn't matter. The stock alignment specs were too Loose on one side and allowed for too much negative camber and too much toe out....luckily this was an easy fix (a bunch of people ended up needing new tires as they didn't notice it for a year or so). Out here we have a lot of oilfield trucks, they put 30k+ per year on their trucks.

I'd suggest taking it to an independant alignment shop just to see where things are.

Also, don't discount the possibility of worn out parts. About a year after that, my shop was doing all the alignments for the local Dodge DLR. We put dozens of upper control arms (IIRC, it's been over 10 yrs ago) on brand new (less than 15k miles) trucks. The ball joints were pure garbage...this went on for a few months until they finally found a suspension mechanic of their own. Don't ever put it past Chrysler to put crap parts on a vehicle.

lack of rotating will NOT cause cupping.


do you have a pic of the tires?
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:22 AM   #16
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?
Mud tires are more prone to cupping as far as I understand it.
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:16 AM   #17
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?
Mud tires are more prone to cupping as far as I understand it.
I created a thread before I saw this one, My BFG MT are doing the same thing. What is the correct pressure that I should be running in them? Currently I believe it is at 33# now, and it seems that the center portion of the tire is crowned upward, as I see it they appear to be running only in the center portion of the tread which is where the cupping is occuring
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:20 AM   #18
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old autoX trick is to use white shoe polish on the tires to see where you're contact patch is. Granted we'd run it up the sidewalls to see when we were running on the sidewalls...but same principle would apply.

I would expect anything over 30-32PSI would be excessive.

Larger/knobbier tires will show strange wear when not used as intended...however those OEM tires aren't that extreme. I wouldn't expect crazy cupping on them without some other cause.
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:46 AM   #19
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old autoX trick is to use white shoe polish on the tires to see where you're contact patch is.

I would expect anything over 30-32PSI would be excessive.

Larger/knobbier tires will show strange wear when not used as intended...however those OEM tires aren't that extreme. I wouldn't expect crazy cupping on them without some other cause.
Well I agree about something else may be outta sorts, but I did have a mechanic look at it and everything he looked at was in good order. Jeep has 24K and the tires have maybe 11K on them. I will try knocking down the pressure a bit and see if that gets rid of the crown that I am seeing. The good thing is that since I rotated the tires it has gotten significantly quieter. I realize with that aggressive of a tread pattern there will be noise, but before i rotated them it was ridiculously loud!
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:53 AM   #20
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the strange wear patterns can cause extra noise FWIW. I figure you know this now. I'm just restating for good measure.

I may have to concede a little on my previous statement. I'm putting my brain to work trying to regurgitate very old knowledge. Anyway. I think it may be possible with high PSI, lack of rotations, and knobby(ish) tires to lead to a perfect storm of strange tire wear....and could maybe cause cupping. add enough variables and anything is possible. I'm still shocked ya'll are having this with those particular tires. But hell, I've been wrong before.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:00 AM   #21
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the strange wear patterns can cause extra noise FWIW. I figure you know this now. I'm just restating for good measure.

I may have to concede a little on my previous statement. I'm putting my brain to work trying to regurgitate very old knowledge. Anyway. I think it may be possible with high PSI, lack of rotations, and knobby(ish) tires to lead to a perfect storm of strange tire wear....and could maybe cause cupping. add enough variables and anything is possible. I'm still shocked ya'll are having this with those particular tires. But hell, I've been wrong before.
A buddy of mine that has and 07 JK Rubi, went through the same issue, so I called him to verify, and he said they blamed it mostly on too high air pressure, and lack of rotation. GO FIGURE!!! So with that information in hand tonight I will lower the PSI a bit and since they were just rotated I will keep an eye on things. I have to say that these tires are stiff as all get out and I can see where too much pressure in them may cause this issue. I mean I have seen tire cup on the outside portion of the tire but this is the first set that I have ever been witness to the centers cupping.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:14 AM   #22
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Use chalk. The large children's chalk and cover a good portion of thread across the width. Drive back and forth a couple times to see how they wear.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:20 AM   #23
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Use chalk. The large children's chalk and cover a good portion of thread across the width. Drive back and forth a couple times to see how they wear.
I may try that tonight if it isn't raining. God if it isn't one thing it's 20...Welcome to Jeep Ownership!!!! I would imagine anything that you would put on the tire chalk, paint, shoe polish would work to show how it is setting on the road when it's moving!
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:53 AM   #24
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I may try that tonight if it isn't raining. God if it isn't one thing it's 20...Welcome to Jeep Ownership!!!! I would imagine anything that you would put on the tire chalk, paint, shoe polish would work to show how it is setting on the road when it's moving!
Sand works too
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:04 PM   #25
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Sand works too
Since there are no beaches handy to me I will have to go the other route LOL
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:28 PM   #26
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Not sure how well it shows in the pic. But inside tread is raised on one side of the lug. I did see this support that looks like it got a little flattened. Maybe it supposed to be like this?
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:39 PM   #27
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Not sure how well it shows in the pic. But inside tread is raised on one side of the lug. I did see this support that looks like it got a little flattened. Maybe it supposed to be like this?
My tires looked very similar to yours. Just talked to a tire center and the guy on the phone said to use another tire gauge to check the pressure. He said that it sounds like they were over inflated! Could be I will have to check.

update: I just checked the tires with a different gauge here at work and they are at 37# per tire. This is a wee bit much I would have to assume
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:55 PM   #28
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37psi it what mine say is the recommended pressure.
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Old 08-21-2014, 02:36 PM   #29
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37psi it what mine say is the recommended pressure.
Mine were a change from the stock 16" tires and wheels that came on the jeep when I bought it. I don't know, that just seems a bit high to me! the chalk test seems to be a viable method to figuring this mess out before the tires are ruined
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:45 AM   #30
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Mine were a change from the stock 16" tires and wheels that came on the jeep when I bought it. I don't know, that just seems a bit high to me! the chalk test seems to be a viable method to figuring this mess out before the tires are ruined
37 is what is listed on the door sticker of a Rubicon, which would normally have those tires.

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