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Old 06-14-2014, 03:27 AM   #1
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hoping it works out, 4th time in 8k Miles

This time I gave the dealer a power point slide show with pictures of the random electrical problems he usually can't reproduce.

1. 2 Pictures of System Fault with remote start
2. Picture of satellite radio not working
3. Demonstrated vents not working correctly in manual mode.

Called Chrysler and found out I was elevated to enhanced customer care. Dealer had it for a few days now. Sigh. They were supposed to have Chrysler engineers get involved this time. No resolution yet. Without Jeep for another weekend. Grrrrrr. On Monday, I am going to call the Chrysler contact back.

Having quality problems is one thing. Unfixable problems is incomprehensible. I am getting nervous about offering to trade for another one under lemon law. I think I might be better off in something else. It's a shame, I adore the Wrangler.

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Old 06-14-2014, 07:37 AM   #2
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Stick with it until they fix it or replace it, it's worth it. Sounds like a lemon. I haven't had any problems (except self inflicted) in 18 months and 24k miles. Good luck!

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Old 06-14-2014, 02:00 PM   #3
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Stick with it until they fix it or replace it, it's worth it. Sounds like a lemon. I haven't had any problems (except self inflicted) in 18 months and 24k miles. Good luck!
Thanks. I really hope it is resolved this time. I don't want to car shop a second time. Everything else just isn't a wrangler.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:03 PM   #4
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Sorry to hear your having troubles, but before assuming your problems might get you another vehicle (or a refund) I would take a closer look at your States 'Lemon Laws'.
I don't know what State you are in, but your issues would not qualify you as 'eligible' for protection under NJ Lemon Law.

Lemon Law Unit
New Car

New Jersey's Lemon Law Unit handles new car, used car and motorized wheelchair (power scooter) complaints.

In order to qualify for relief under the Lemon Law, the vehicle must be less than two years old and have fewer than 24,000 miles. The defect must substantially impair the use, value or safety of the vehicle or be a serious safety defect which is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven. As of January 19, 2010, the law also covers authorized emergency vehicles. You must first meet certain conditions and requirements before filing a Lemon Law application. Details are contained in the New Jersey Lemon Law Guidebook or the two-page Consumer Brief. The Lemon Law Unit can be reached by calling 973-504-6226 or by writing to the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs, Lemon Law Unit, P.O. Box 45026, Newark, NJ 07101. You may also submit a question by email at lemonlaw@dca.lps.state.nj.us.
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ASE_MasterTech View Post
Sorry to hear your having troubles, but before assuming your problems might get you another vehicle (or a refund) I would take a closer look at your States 'Lemon Laws'.
I don't know what State you are in, but your issues would not qualify you as 'eligible' for protection under NJ Lemon Law.
I spoke with Chrysler directly (dealer is powerless in this area). I established that 4 visits in 8K miles for same unfixable problem and increased number of problems over time substantially devalued the vehicle. This is true. The only way Chrysler has to reverse this is to resolve the problem. Completely.

Chrysler didn't even flinch when I brought it up. They are trying to escalate it. If they do, great! if not, back to the drawing board.

WHAT IS A LEMON?
A lemon is a new motor vehicle that has one or more problems, covered by the warranty, that substantially impair the use, value or safety of that vehicle. The problems must occur within the first year or first 18,000 miles, whichever comes first.

The Lemon Law applies to passenger cars, motorcycles and other noncommercial motor vehicles, which are designed to carry no more than a one-ton load and are used exclusively for personal use.

OHIO’S LEMON LAW
You are covered by Ohio’s Lemon Law if the problems with your new motor vehicle occurred in the first 12 months or first 18,000 miles, whichever comes first. If you have problems with your vehicle during this protection period, take the vehicle back to the dealer or the manufacturer and ask them to fix it. The manufacturer has a reasonable opportunity to fix the problem.

If the problem is not corrected, you might be eligible for a refund or replacement. You are covered by the Lemon Law even if the problem was discovered late in the protection period, and the repair attempts may extend beyond the protection period (first year or first 18,000 miles, whichever comes first).
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:04 AM   #6
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^^ By that definition it sure sounds like you have a lemon on your hands. Let them try again, if you're not satisfied with the results pursue the lemon law. It is something you can do yourself or with the assistance of an attorney, if you feel you need one and want to pay for his service. Good luck.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:21 AM   #7
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Of course I do hope that they resolve your issues, it's just that I see a lot of posters on these forums suggesting "Lemon Law" action for any item that doesn't operate properly, & that notion simply isn't correct.

I am playing the devils advocate here simply because I have seen folks 'stomp their feet' making Lemon Law claims that may not necessarily be there, then have a Dealer/Manufacturer take a hard line, with the result of nothing getting resolved.

Hopefully the Manufacturer stands behind their product & settles your issues one way or another, but they are not 'required' to replace your vehicle under most "Lemon Laws" that I am aware of.
For Instance; In your case, in the event the Manufacturer does not satisfy you, I cannot see anyone of deciding authority (ie-Judge) determining that your vehicle's use (or value) is 'substantially impaired' by the issues you've mentioned - remote start-satellite radio-a few vents (unless windshield venting, which could induce a safety claim), if the Dealer/Manufacturer refutes a 'replacement vehicle' claim.
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WHAT IS A LEMON?
A lemon is a new motor vehicle that has one or more problems, covered by the warranty, that substantially impair the use, value or safety of that vehicle. The problems must occur within the first year or first 18,000 miles, whichever comes first.
I would suggest seeking out another Dealership Service Dept, as not all are competent, before making claims where eligibility could/may be questionable.

Just sayin'...
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ASE_MasterTech View Post
Of course I do hope that they resolve your issues, it's just that I see a lot of posters on these forums suggesting "Lemon Law" action for any item that doesn't operate properly, & that notion simply isn't correct.

I am playing the devils advocate here simply because I have seen folks 'stomp their feet' making Lemon Law claims that may not necessarily be there, then have a Dealer/Manufacturer take a hard line, with the result of nothing getting resolved.

Hopefully the Manufacturer stands behind their product & settles your issues one way or another, but they are not 'required' to replace your vehicle under most "Lemon Laws" that I am aware of.
For Instance; In your case, in the event the Manufacturer does not satisfy you, I cannot see anyone of deciding authority (ie-Judge) determining that your vehicle's use (or value) is 'substantially impaired' by the issues you've mentioned - remote start-satellite radio-a few vents (unless windshield venting, which could induce a safety claim), if the Dealer/Manufacturer refutes a 'replacement vehicle' claim.


I would suggest seeking out another Dealership Service Dept, as not all are competent, before making claims where eligibility could/may be questionable.

Just sayin'...
Actually Chrysler didn't flinch nor do I agree with your assertion eligibility could be questionable. Four visits and the problem isn't fixed, instead they are increasing. People use CarFax and know exactly what is happening. There is hard evidence of it.

Sorry man. It isn't my responsibility to go door to door for my vehicle to get repaired. Chrysler backs the vehicle. They certify the repair places. If their certified repair places aren't capable, Chrysler needs to let me know how to proceed. I can only take off so much work to resolve this. Remember, I am the only person paying to be in a conversation with them. They can't add any more value than what the vehicle was supposed to have in the first place. In the end, who eats the decrease in value of showing a lot of repair on the CarFax report? What could I say when the issues aren't resolved? Well you can still drive it? By law, not acceptable.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:45 PM   #9
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Actually Chrysler didn't flinch nor do I agree with your assertion eligibility could be questionable. Four visits and the problem isn't fixed, instead they are increasing. People use CarFax and know exactly what is happening. There is hard evidence of it.

Sorry man. It isn't my responsibility to go door to door for my vehicle to get repaired. Chrysler backs the vehicle. They certify the repair places. If their certified repair places aren't capable, Chrysler needs to let me know how to proceed. I can only take off so much work to resolve this. Remember, I am the only person paying to be in a conversation with them. They can't add any more value than what the vehicle was supposed to have in the first place. In the end, who eats the decrease in value of showing a lot of repair on the CarFax report? What could I say when the issues aren't resolved? Well you can still drive it? By law, not acceptable.
Sorry if my statement offended you, that was not my intention.
I can tell you though, if your attitude is "it is not my responsibility" (to help myself out) ie-attempting to locate another opinion/repair shop, you will find little sympathy within the legal system if/when things do not go your way.

Again, no offense intended...
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:34 AM   #10
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"Use" meaning being able to drive it. If faults are not a safety concern .. There's no way in hell the lemon law comes into play.!

2001 I bought a brand new Tj Off the lot. It would click 2-3 times when straying from a stop. Jeep was in 4 times and not fixed. It was more of a annoyance (being a brand new vehicle) then anything. I did try using the lemon law but was Denied. #1 nothing safety related. #2 the faults did not hinder the jeep un-drivable.
The noise subsided over time and eventually stopped. I never found out what it was.
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Old 06-19-2014, 10:54 PM   #11
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Sorry if my statement offended you, that was not my intention.
Sorry, I didn't mean to respond so affirmative. Just in the middle of it with Chrysler and dealer. I appreciate your taking the time to provide (and others taking time) as this is a pretty wild time to have a margin call on a $40K expense.

In the end, I told Chrysler and the dealer the same thing. The evidence is there that the Jeep has random electrical problems. Either they change something or they keep the jeep. Unresolvable problems that are fault oriented just isn't something I can put up with. Especially when they are not trying anything.

We will see. So far the dealer doesn't seem to want Chrysler involved. Chrysler has same story they they can't get a hold of the dealer. One thing seems for sure, they are both waiting for me to back down. I guess we'll see who can get the most comfortable Since it's costing me money every month, I have nothing to lose. I can set in their loaner car until they resolve the issue. #Never#buy#a#jeep#without#lifetime#warranty!
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:42 AM   #12
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I would like to share some information

Some good news, the dealer was able to reproduce the problem that I showed him when I dropped it off. He replaced the AC control unit and now everything works fine. The other computer related errors seem to have gone away.

How did this get accomplished? Very simple, I had to learn how Jeep does Jeeps. The less they test at factory, the better their quality numbers look (and some would argue the cheaper the price). Jeep knows it will ship vehicles with minor problems and let the warranty cover it IF the person actually uses the feature.

This is a bad idea as it burdens us to finish test the vehicle. One could argue the dealer has better resources than a purpose built factory for fixing random problems caught during manufacturing. Maybe.

The problem comes in when I called Chrysler. They escalated trip #4 to enhanced care. Engineers getting involved, factory on hold until I am resolved, the CEO orbiting in a plane ready to help ... or ... as I like to call it, phone support.

Yep, seriously. At first I was frustrated they Chrysler was going to regurgitate the dealer mechanic training over the phone and call it help. In the course of 1.5 weeks, I realized Chrysler doesn't train their dealers very well. It's almost as if Chrysler don't want the dealer to find problems as it just cost Chrysler money. That's where this whole "don't test at factory and let the dealer fix it" falls apart. The dealer said they were able to look up system fault messages they previously had no idea where to look. Their equipment didn't show them. My scan tool didn't show them.

I still adore the wrangler. The dealer bent over backwards trying to help. I am seriously frustrated with Chrysler's business practices. Especially Jeeps. It's not going to change anytime soon though. A youtube interview with CEO of Jeep pointed out Jeep was the jewel of the FIAT Chrysler company. FIAT was losing money and Chrysler wasn't doing well. Jeep was doing far better. First rule of business, don't touch the front runner. The jeep CEO isn't changing anything. He gets this status if he doesn't screw up. The good news is the new wrangler won't change much. He would be out of his mind to do anything "bold".
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:54 AM   #13
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Glad to hear they made the effort, Wranglers are worth it. I am also having an error with my remote start, sometimes gives a fault. Hate to take it in because I know it won't duplicate it for the dealer and I don't want to be without my Jeep. Wondering if they said anything specific about the fault for your remote start?
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:42 PM   #14
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Glad to hear they made the effort, Wranglers are worth it. I am also having an error with my remote start, sometimes gives a fault. Hate to take it in because I know it won't duplicate it for the dealer and I don't want to be without my Jeep. Wondering if they said anything specific about the fault for your remote start?
They are telling me the same thing. I brought in pictures and power point presentation. They escalated it to factory phone support. The factory under trains dealers so they can't find problems to save money on warranty work. Within hours of speaking with the factory they were able to look up the reason for the fault. They can look it up without needing to repeat it unless it said "fault". All other codes are stored. This one is either not stored or they won't admit to it. Open the door, use the remote start. It should error because the door is open. See if the dealer can find that code because they found that at the local dealer. If not, they don't have a clue what they are doing. If you are keeping the jeep, buy the lifetime warranty through the forum member for around $2,000. Then call Chrysler after you drop it off at dealer and demand it be escalated to "enhanced support" or phone support.

I adore the jeep community. Completely awesome. I will be returning my jeep under the lemon law. 5 times in 10,000miles is unacceptable. Maybe Dayton, Ohio Jeep dealers suck but there is no excuse. I bought the top of the line Jeep Wrangler with the best warranty. The factory is only a few hours driving time. The factory has been unbelievably uncooperative. If you think buying a jeep can suck, have an unresolvable problem and realize the Jeep company is a paper tiger.

If they offer a zero dollar replacement with less than 30 miles I might roll the dice. Only because of the lemon law restarts (expires at 18,000 miles) and I adore driving it and the community rocks. Really rocks. If this was any other vehicle, I would be long gone. Seems like Jeep sort of milks the brand rather than protect it.

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