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Old 06-08-2008, 10:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple88a View Post
that can go offroad
Enjoy. Have fun and just keep the tow truck on speed dial.

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Old 06-08-2008, 10:53 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by VaMan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaMan
Probably why they named it the Lifetime Powertrain Warranty...


Seems to me That Jeep is pretty confident with the 3.8 huh?? The powertrain warranty was concieved because of the "hardcore" Jeepers thought on a "mini-van" engine. Who cares what the engine platform was designed for?? The Caravan, Voyager have been the MOST sucessful vehicles Chrysler EVER produced. Period. Lets really talk about CRAP engines.... the 3.7 and 2.8 VM Motori Diesel in the Liberty, the 4.7 that has nasty oil coking,circulation problems, or the early 5.7 Hemi Engines. Wecould go into the 4.0's problems But I dont want to start a war. The 4.0 is a good engine, but just because it lasts 200K doesnt mean its "better" than the 3.8. The Chevy 2.8 V6 lasted too but was truely a junk engine. Lets try to keep our opinions inside and talk real DATA here.....


Since you quoted me I assume you took issue with what I said. You might have a valid point about the 3.8 IF the warranty was only for the Wrangler but it's not. Chrysler was looking at their entire line. So I don't think it's anything to do with Jeep worrying about "hardcore" Jeepers freaking out over a V6. I have a JK and find the 3.8 to be fine...I wasn't expecting muscle car performance. It wheels just fine. I just see here a few folks who don't even own a JK whining about it. Oh you can get it in 2WD...oh the shame..yada yada....I'd be ashamed to admit that I hadn't taken the time to read anything about the JK...it's in what...it's second year already? At least you own one.
VaMan,

Sorry, I didnt mean to take shot at YOUR post in particular, so please dont take it that way. I just seem to get tired of all the myths about the JK's because someone heard from thier brothers, sisters, ex-boyfriends, bext door neighbors, cousin that read on the internet "those engines are out of the mini van and have no low end power" Factory engine programers have so much power available at thier fingertips, its not even funny. Take the 4.0 for example..... In the 98 wrangler it was rated for 190 HP. In the 98 XJ it was 195, if I remember right, and yet in the 98 ZJ it was 215.....so much for that lowly 190 hp in the TJ huh?? I heard that the TJ's had a crappy engine in them beacause they are "only" 190 hp!! I am gonna buy a ZJ, it has a "better" 4.0.... and we wont even get into LOADED emissions readings from the 4.0.....Why do you think the late 4.0's had 4 cats??? Anything FI can pass @ idle, but loaded is a different story....


Stepping off of soapbox now.....

PS, Thanks for the welcome back, I got so wrapped up with the new shop we moved into in Feb, I am just NOW getting caught up......WHEW!!!


Joe

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Old 06-08-2008, 11:04 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by [TheYJGuy] View Post
Seems to me that Jeep made a valiant effort to sway the Wranglers from offroad use to mall crawlers and pavement pounders. They've made it look like a glorified convertible V6 Hummer.

Nuff said

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HOW can you honestly say that??? Go out and look under your YJ and tell me how much of the following it had STOCK.

High Pinion 30 spline front Dana 44 with a FACTORY Locker and 4.10 gears
32 Spline Dana 44 With a FACTORY Locker with 4.10 gears (YJ's ONLY came with a DANA 35! Even the late CJ's had D44's!!)
205 HP
Air Conditioning that blows 37 degrees
Good Cooling system
Dis-connectable swaybar FROM THE FACTORY
4:1 Transfer case
and best of all.......


A LIFETIME POWERTRAIN WARRANTY!


So, Please re-iterate to my small brain how its just a "glorified conv Hummer"? Seems to me that JEEP made a valiant effort to make a very capable offroad vehicle for the masses.

Thanks, Joe
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:12 PM   #64
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Funny. I see an XJ in your sig pic...You do know they made 2wd XJ's too right??? I guess you should just sell your "Xtreme Junk" because they are not serious Jeeps anymore huh?? Just pointing out how SILLY that comment was. BTW, I owned and wheeled a 91, 93 and a 99 XJ in previous Jeep ownership.

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Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
oh man, this is the saddest day of my life. a wrangler isn't a wrangler if its 2wd. thanks daimler

trail rated baby, great direction they're taking.

i'm sorry but the jk, now stands for just kidding to me.
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:24 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute Offroad View Post

High Pinion 30 spline front Dana 44 with a FACTORY Locker and 4.10 gears
32 Spline Dana 44 With a FACTORY Locker with 4.10 gears (YJ's ONLY came with a DANA 35! Even the late CJ's had D44's!!)
205 HP
Air Conditioning that blows 37 degrees
Good Cooling system
Dis-connectable swaybar FROM THE FACTORY
4:1 Transfer case
and best of all.......


A LIFETIME POWERTRAIN WARRANTY!
All of these stock specs that you listed isn't worth a pot to piss in when you take into consideration how small the budget was to build a YJ in the late 80s compared to how big it is to built a plastic Wrangler in 2007.

The list price of a new Laredo Edition YJ in '87 was less then $8000

Whats the list price of an '07 JK? $20,271 for the BASE MODEL

And your LIFETIME POWERTRAIN WARRANTY is void if you modify any part of the powertrain.

The reason the stock specs on a Just Kidding are better is because the price of everything has gone up, enabling companies to install more expensive parts, jack up the price and sell it to whoever wants to waste their hard earned dollar on it.
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:28 PM   #66
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LOL... How much was a gallon of milk in the 80's? How about a gallon of Gas? or a pack of cigarretts? Better yet....How much were you MAKING per hour in the 80's vs Today?? You see my friend, its all about inflation. I really do find it humorous that I wasted money on my JK.... Its funny about what you say about the warranty.....Just a few weekds ago, I was doing a install writeup/test for a major name "tuner" company and thier tuner FAILD and took out my transmission...you know what?? I now have a new trans....covered under warranty... I have lifted and built over 40 JK's this year alone, and have had customers that had warranty issues, that had them covered. So where did you get that info from, or are you just assuming that it wont be covered???


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Old 06-08-2008, 11:32 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [TheYJGuy] View Post
All of these stock specs that you listed isn't worth a pot to piss in when you take into consideration how small the budget was to build a YJ in the late 80s compared to how big it is to built a plastic Wrangler in 2007.

The list price of a new Laredo Edition YJ in '87 was less then $8000

Whats the list price of an '07 JK? $20,271 for the BASE MODEL

And your LIFETIME POWERTRAIN WARRANTY is void if you modify any part of the powertrain.

The reason the stock specs on a Just Kidding are better is because the price of everything has gone up, enabling companies to install more expensive parts, jack up the price and sell it to whoever wants to waste their hard earned dollar on it.
YJ, your theory might be flawed. Stop while your you're still behind.
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:48 PM   #68
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LOL... How much was a gallon of milk in the 80's? How about a gallon of Gas? or a pack of cigarretts? Better yet....How much were you MAKING per hour in the 80's vs Today?? You see my friend, its all about inflation. I really do find it humorous that I wasted money on my JK.... Its funny about what you say about the warranty.....Just a few weekds ago, I was doing a install writeup/test for a major name "tuner" company and thier tuner FAILD and took out my transmission...you know what?? I now have a new trans....covered under warranty... I have lifted and built over 40 JK's this year alone, and have had customers that had warranty issues, that had them covered. So where did you get that info from, or are you just assuming that it wont be covered???


Joe
Okay, a gallon of milk was probably $0.75, gas was about the same as that and a pack of Marlboro Reds was about $2.50 give or take. I really couldn't tell you what minimum wage was, seeing as I was born in '88. I'm expecting a smartass remark about how I'm 20 compared to how old you are. C'mon, I'm already prepared to roll my eyes and laugh.

AS I STATED, people make more money now then compared to then, which is why everything costs more, enabling manufacturers to spend more money on upgraded parts for use on a stock vehicle. Its not all about inflation. THAT is a pacifier excuse if I've ever heard one. I don't think I've ever had to repeat myself on this board.

And the warranty info is coming from the warranty papers that my friend got with his 2006 Wrangler. Maybe the person that covered the trans was smoking a bit too much

Now, I'm done this flame war because I don't plan on getting banned from this forum because somebody decided to quote me from a post that I made almost 2 months ago, especially since you are friends with a few of the higher-ups.

Enjoy your wheeling.
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So many mods planned for the upcoming YJ:
4.6ltr stroker
Dana44s
3.5" lift kit
33" General Grabbers
Massey Ferguason Grey body
Kubota Orange suspension components
lots more...

This is me on WF:
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Old 06-09-2008, 12:14 AM   #69
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i tried to resist, but i can't. jeep was the first 4x4. every cj was 4x4, every wranlger was 4x4. so since 1941 every cj through wrangler was 4x4.

why offer a wrangler in 2 wheel drive? if you want a convertible buy a sebring.
Jeep USED TO make several models that WERE available in 2WD (station wagon, Commando, Jeepster).

They no longer make such vehicles, so why NOT offer what they DO make in 2WD for those who want folks who want a no-nonense utility vehicle, but don't need 4WD?

I don't think it relects on our manhood that not all Wranglers are 4WD. "Wrangler" was such a girly, lame name back when it came out, but now it's an accepted Jeep name. Soon 2WD Wranglers will be just as accepted, as were 2WD Cherokees (which here in Texas are more common than 4WD models).

I have to comment on the old Buick 225 V-6. I had a '71 CJ5 with that engine, and I loved it. With the right gearing (I had the HD T-18 4 speed w/ non-synchro granny 1st gear) it would pull stumps, and crawl just fine, thank-you, and tow a trailer (I towed 2000 pounds all over the country back then), and I never got less than 20mpg on-road, and that was cruising at 70mph (which I don't do w/ my '00 TJ because the damned top noise is so bad). The CJ w/ the V-6 was short and more maneuverable. Sure, in '72 AMC put the 232/258 in there, lengthened the chassis (with no more room inside) and we hated it. The only thing we LIKED in '72 was the new steering geometry (getting rid of the bellcrank and drag-link that made on-road driving sloppy).

That 225 Buick/ Jeep-Dauntless V-6 was NEVER used by Land Rover, BTW. The engines Land Rover did use was the Buick/Oldsmobile 215 V-8, a totally unrelated all-aluminum engine that was actually a fabulous engine that was used for 30+ years.

Bob
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:28 AM   #70
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Noone can argue that the I6 is an awesome reliable motor. (when taken care of) My brothers 1997 Sahara has been great. Infact, I bought mine because I always liked his Jeep.

But it is yet to be seen if the new v6 will be as good. This is only its second year. I would like to think the v6 chrysler is useing is an improvement over the I6. Either way, I love my jeep!
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:43 AM   #71
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Absolute Offroad...no problem and we are in agreement here. I've followed this thread off and on and get tired of all the nay-sayers. More than one poster has had a case of the vapors over the JK but don't own one or seem to have driven one. The 3.8 could care less whether it's in a mini-van or a JK...it's just a piece of machinery doing it's job. While it is new to the Wrangler, the fact that it has evolved from the mini-van should speak well of it in the long run. How many high-mileage mini-vans do you see out there? Plenty. I know several that are running with 200k on them now. And you know the engines in the mini-van aren't maintained like most Jeepers will keep there up so I'm not really worried about it lasting.

I love my Unlimited...it has more capabilities than I ability to use. And living here on the east coast there's not much in way of rock crawling to be had. Beach and mud are the best I can find but I do use 4wd as much as I can.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:32 AM   #72
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[QUOTE=Absolute Offroad;236009]HOW can you honestly say that??? Go out and look under your YJ and tell me how much of the following it had STOCK.

High Pinion 30 spline front Dana 44 with a FACTORY Locker and 4.10 gears
32 Spline Dana 44 With a FACTORY Locker with 4.10 gears (YJ's ONLY came with a DANA 35! Even the late CJ's had D44's!!)
205 HP
Air Conditioning that blows 37 degrees
Good Cooling system
Dis-connectable swaybar FROM THE FACTORY
4:1 Transfer case

the only one of those options that comes on a 2wd would be a/c. thats my beef. and who's talking about any other platform jeep made besides cj/wrangler here???? ya, they made 2wd xj's i don't get it, but in warmer climates people like them, fine. you can't even find one in the mid west. xj is a great jeep.

and i will not deny the rubicon is one of the greatest stock vehicles ever, i think its great. but i also think they sacrificed their name by offering it in 2wd. what happened to every wrangler being trail rated, not anymore.

i also hate that every year the majority of jeep owners that are not part of the lifestyle increases dramatically. more and more yuppies that don't even like how their jeep rides, but want to own one are out there. no wave, no clue what their jeep is, or what it can do. never had the top off, wouldn't stop to help another jeeper. AND OFFERING 2WD JUST MULTIPLIED THAT.

maybe harley should offer a straight 4 cyl thats quiet and peppy so they can get some of that market. at least they put a different name on buell to save their name. if you like buell, fine, if you like harley fine, but they're not the same
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:08 AM   #73
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I can't believe the length of the engine hasn't been brought up here. Did jeep expand the passenger compartment room in the JK by using the V6 also? Many V6s are shorter than most inline four cylinders. V6s are generally a lot shorter than inline 6s. Fuel economy and similar parts between models certainly help the argument for using the V6.
The JK does have more interior room than previous Wrangler incarnations; it's the first one I fit in and the reason that I never bought a Jeep before.

To all the little fellers that don't like JK's because they violate some unspoken tryst that you had with the Jeep Gods, get over it; the grapes aren't sour. We're wheelin' our JK's and having a great time.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:28 AM   #74
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is it just me or doesn't anyone else think the buick v6 sucked. i've driven it, and it was worse than the 4 banger, and it had a crap load of problems.
Ahmen, I managed 68,000 on that 231 before having to do the heads.
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Old 06-09-2008, 12:03 PM   #75
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Just recently traded up from 05 TJ to 08 JK. I like everything so far better. Only thing I have had to adjust to is the lack of low end torque. I have to get used to letting the clutch out at higher rpm's than I used with the TJ.
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Old 06-09-2008, 12:20 PM   #76
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Ahmen, I managed 68,000 on that 231 before having to do the heads.
i can't tell if you're bragging, or complaining. 68,000 miles is not very many.
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:27 PM   #77
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lol you people crack me up, you're comparing maximum horse power on a low rpm engine.


horse power means NOTHING when you're talking low revving engines. Matter of fact horse power is figured out from the torque curve and its nothing more than a math equation..
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Old 06-09-2008, 03:53 PM   #78
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lol you people crack me up, you're comparing maximum horse power on a low rpm engine.


horse power means NOTHING when you're talking low revving engines. Matter of fact horse power is figured out from the torque curve and its nothing more than a math equation..

Right.
When I went to the first dealer to test drive a JK, the sales guy drove first and was stomping on the gas --- "see what great pick-up it has?" he said.
I was there in one of my Minis that we track. It was a joke, really.

I bought the JK for a couple of reasons and I think they're the reasons that most people are buying them as their first Jeep.
1) I fit in it. I'm 6'5" and I never could fit in a Wrangler before the JK
2) I always wanted a Jeep. My Dad was PD and AirForce; he had had Jeeps and told me great war stories regarding them.
3) I wanted to wheel topless when I could and have a hard top for urban Atlanta survival. You don't get that from any competitors.

This is how they are now; everybody get over it. Second-guessing Chrysler is like beating the dead horse. I point it at a hill, pick a line, and up that hill I go.

So if we V-6 JK owners aren't welcome in the straight-6 crowd, oh well. I'm really new at this (although I've had 14 pick-ups) and I've already passed two TJ's on the trails.
I'll hang with anybody that's out there having a good time and doing it safely.
Enjoy your ride.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:26 PM   #79
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You guys need to CHILL I don't think anybody here was saying the 3.7 the was a bad powerplant i think the thread was made to compare and see weather the 4.0 or 3.7 is better suited for the job of wheeling. I think the 3.7 is a great engien but the 4.0 has a better tourque curve and low end grunt for the job.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:12 PM   #80
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ummmm....3.8

but seriously....isn't that what this thread was all about....bashing the JK?
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:10 PM   #81
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You guys need to CHILL I don't think anybody here was saying the 3.7 the was a bad powerplant i think the thread was made to compare and see weather the 4.0 or 3.7 is better suited for the job of wheeling. I think the 3.7 is a great engien but the 4.0 has a better tourque curve and low end grunt for the job.
It's a 3.8. I went from a 97 TJ to a 08 JK. The JK is a FAR superior Jeep in every respect except for low RPM torque. I I6 is good and ran forever, but it ran not so clean.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:26 PM   #82
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Where are those hood measurements? Can I squeeze an LS3 under the hood of a JK?

I know a guy who builds and refurbishes jeeps, and my friend just bought a 98 TJ. This has got me looking at them again. Like most people I've always been intrigued by Wranglers. I almost bought a 98 sport for myself back in '99.

Does anyone here have any more information on the difficulties of meeting emissions on an I6 versus a V6? Are there any other vehicles that Jeep/Chrysler make that use the I6 anymore? I definitely prefer an I6 over a V6 from a technical standpoint, but the packaging alone makes it hard to use in most of today's grocery getting vehicles.

I'll poke around and read some more.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:32 PM   #83
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i remember someone swapped a viper motor in a tj
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:26 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post


1) I fit in it. I'm 6'5" and I never could fit in a Wrangler before the JK
I'm borderline 6'6". I have NO problem fitting in CJs YJs or TJs.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:16 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by [TheYJGuy] View Post
I'm borderline 6'6". I have NO problem fitting in CJs YJs or TJs.
Relatively short-legged then? I can't get my legs behind the steering wheel (38" inseam...). I went to the Jeep dealer every-other year since the mid 80's; came really close to buying a Scambler in '86 but I couldn't drop the bomb on something I had to squeeze so hard to fit in.
There is a Global Conspiracy Against The Tall; don't get me started about the Porsche Cayman....
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:18 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Relatively short-legged then? I can't get my legs behind the steering wheel (38" inseam...).
36 inseam.....38 waist
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So many mods planned for the upcoming YJ:
4.6ltr stroker
Dana44s
3.5" lift kit
33" General Grabbers
Massey Ferguason Grey body
Kubota Orange suspension components
lots more...

This is me on WF:
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:13 AM   #87
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read here: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/38-40.html
Quote:
Chrysler wrote: With 205 horsepower and 240 lb.-ft. of torque, the 3.8-liter V-6 engine produces more horsepower and torque than its predecessor (the 4.0 liter straight-six used by AMC and Jeep, not the 3.8 V6 long used on minivans and the Imperial). Compared to the 4.0-liter inline six-cylinder engine, the 3.8-liter is lighter and shorter, and maintains higher torque at speeds above 3400 rpm, allowing for an expanded operating range. [In the 2007 Pacifica, the 3.8 puts out 235 lb-ft of torque. It does not appear for the moment that the 3.8 has been revised; rather, it seems to have been put into higher production and used to replace the 4.0 I-6.]
Quote:
In the Wrangler, the 3.8 gets 205 horsepower and 240 lb-ft of torque - possibly due to tuning for more torque at lower engine speeds.
i love the torque an inline makes, but the bottom line is that the lack of bottom end on the v6 isnt that big of a deal. if nothing else, the 4 to 1 low range more than compensates for it on the jk.

if i can wheel my pig of a 4 banger, i can assure you that the lack of bottom end on the jk would be tolerable

btw, 33" waist, 40" inseam here. and i dont have adjustable seats. i have to fold myself up in order to get in
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:18 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by whitebuffalo View Post
btw, 33" waist, 40" inseam here. and i dont have adjustable seats. i have to fold myself up in order to get in
NICE!
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So many mods planned for the upcoming YJ:
4.6ltr stroker
Dana44s
3.5" lift kit
33" General Grabbers
Massey Ferguason Grey body
Kubota Orange suspension components
lots more...

This is me on WF:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ous/COMEDY.gif
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:06 AM   #89
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Fold and tumble??
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:27 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by whitebuffalo View Post
btw, 33" waist, 40" inseam here. and i dont have adjustable seats. i have to fold myself up in order to get in
You have my sympathies... ...where do you get pants???

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