lockers - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 02-21-2011, 01:26 AM   #31
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
No doubt lockers have their place and are the best for what they're for, but what I'm thinking of is having the limited slip for heavy snow falls while the lockers would be an off road only type of item.

For example, even in bad weather I wouldn't want to lock my axles at the outset of a 45 minute drive home from work where sometimes I might have full traction but other times may not. I'd think a limited slip would be better for those purposes.

Of course, at the moment I have neither, so it's all just thinking about the future at this point.
I grew up in Montana and NO, no limited slip or anything. Open, open, open. You will die otherwise. DO NOT LOCK ON THIN SNOW--EVER!!!. ARBs are selectable when you absolutely 4 wheels pulling all the time. Just some thoughts after 44 years of Jeep CJs....

Robert

Robert_Stephens is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 04:57 AM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 764
I am not sure, but i think you can only engage the lockers in a jk rubi in low range. The main reason I went with the sahara model is we do a lot of higher speeds in snow and on packed snow in Kansas, speeds to fast for low range, so I speced a sahara with the tracloc, so the rears will both pull at all speeds in any range, just like my ford trucks do. We don't do much rock crawling on the flat plains of Kansas. If needed I would only add lockers to the front as the rear will somewhat lock as needed. That's what a limited slip tracloc does. Lets you turn without binding.

KSCRUDE is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 06:25 AM   #33
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE View Post
I am not sure, but i think you can only engage the lockers in a jk rubi in low range. The main reason I went with the sahara model is we do a lot of higher speeds in snow and on packed snow in Kansas, speeds to fast for low range, so I speced a sahara with the tracloc, so the rears will both pull at all speeds in any range, just like my ford trucks do. We don't do much rock crawling on the flat plains of Kansas. If needed I would only add lockers to the front as the rear will somewhat lock as needed. That's what a limited slip tracloc does. Lets you turn without binding.
That's not quite how a limited slip works. When one wheel loses traction then the power is transfer to the other not power to both all the time. All JK's also have a braking system that acts as a LSD and works very well.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 07:12 AM   #34
Jeeper
 
SeaComms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Noosa, QLD, Australia
Posts: 780
I beg to differ (about the JK EBLD (Electronic Brake Lock Differential) working very well that is..)

I should clarify that! It does work, as witnessed in that vid linked to previously (which would probably have climbed up there in a matter of seconds if he had dropped the pressure in his tyres..) In a similar situation except it was mud, we had 3 manual JK's get half way up the hill but when momentum ran out and all 4 wheels were spinning and the Jeeps were starting to slide back down, we all did the same thing - both feet straight to the floor (clutch and brake that is).

The interesting result was no brakes with a rock hard brake pedal!

Analysing it afterwoods, the only thing we can think of was the ELBD had taken over the brakes on all 4 wheels and had blocked out the master cylinder to avoid pumping fluid back up the lines.

Have not been able to get a response from the local dealer, nor Chrysler Australia on this one! But I tell you what, rolling uncontrollably backwards down a muddy hill is not something I want to do to often.

In hindsight, now we know what the problem is, simply back off the throttle and quickly throw it into reverse and drive back down? It took about 3 to 5 seconds for brake control to come back to the pedal.
SeaComms is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 08:05 AM   #35
UConn Husky

WF Supporting Member
 
Grog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bentonville, AR
Posts: 422
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_Stephens View Post
I grew up in Montana and NO, no limited slip or anything. Open, open, open. You will die otherwise. DO NOT LOCK ON THIN SNOW--EVER!!!. ARBs are selectable when you absolutely 4 wheels pulling all the time. Just some thoughts after 44 years of Jeep CJs....

Robert
Agree. Lockers are trouble on thin snow and ice.
Grog is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 08:32 AM   #36
Jeeper
 
Ageless Stranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 26,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncossey View Post
Thats not the point I was trying to get across, man you guys need some backbone.

The point I was trying to get at is that there are tons of people that come on here and get advice from people that pretend to be experts then find they didnt need it, or it wasnt right. Lockers arent cheap, they can destroy your ride if not used properly, and 80% of the time, not needed offroad. A good set of aired down tires, proper gearing, and an aware driver is much more successful than someone who is new offroad in a 37 thousand dollar toy who doesnt know how to utilize 10 thousand dollars worth of equipment on it.

On that note, there are literally thousands of online references about the benefits and negatives of lockers, how they work, and how they should be used in each application. Last time I checked, the information on wikipedia is fairly accurate and would be a good starting point. Like i said earlier though, the best way to learn about locking out, is to go jeeping with someone who is experienced with them.

I didn't quote you, and I wasn't talking to you. I didn't agree with your comment but I let it go. If you don't have something constructive to add to a thread (Like answering the OP's question) then don't post anything. I have all the backbone I need, thank you, and I refuse to further lower myself by getting into a interwebz pissing match with you. Have a nice day.
Ageless Stranger is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 08:37 AM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
That's not quite how a limited slip works. When one wheel loses traction then the power is transfer to the other not power to both all the time. All JK's also have a braking system that acts as a LSD and works very well.
Then how does vehicles with positrac and such leave 2 black marks when you burn out not 1. They don't have lockers but pull on both sides, especially when going in a straight line. They may have this on all JK's, but the tracloc is still a option. It must do something.
KSCRUDE is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 08:56 AM   #38
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,296
When locked power is immediately to both wheels. LSD first recognizes some slip, then engages.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 08:57 AM   #39
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaComms View Post
I beg to differ (about the JK EBLD (Electronic Brake Lock Differential) working very well that is..)

I should clarify that! It does work, as witnessed in that vid linked to previously (which would probably have climbed up there in a matter of seconds if he had dropped the pressure in his tyres..) In a similar situation except it was mud, we had 3 manual JK's get half way up the hill but when momentum ran out and all 4 wheels were spinning and the Jeeps were starting to slide back down, we all did the same thing - both feet straight to the floor (clutch and brake that is).

The interesting result was no brakes with a rock hard brake pedal!

Analysing it afterwoods, the only thing we can think of was the ELBD had taken over the brakes on all 4 wheels and had blocked out the master cylinder to avoid pumping fluid back up the lines.

Have not been able to get a response from the local dealer, nor Chrysler Australia on this one! But I tell you what, rolling uncontrollably backwards down a muddy hill is not something I want to do to often.

In hindsight, now we know what the problem is, simply back off the throttle and quickly throw it into reverse and drive back down? It took about 3 to 5 seconds for brake control to come back to the pedal.
If all 4 wheels were spinning it was working. That has nothing to do with a loss of traction.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 08:59 AM   #40
In a trailer in the woods

WF Supporting Member
 
Barrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Greater downtown Brownsville,Kentucky
Posts: 41,597
Send a message via AIM to Barrie Send a message via Yahoo to Barrie
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
When locked power is immediately to both wheels. LSD first recognizes some slip, then engages.


X2.
__________________
2006 Unlimited Soft Top


Skillfully disguised as a responsible adult


Barrie is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 10:58 AM   #41
Jeeper
 
ncossey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageless Stranger

I didn't quote you, and I wasn't talking to you. I didn't agree with your comment but I let it go. If you don't have something constructive to add to a thread (Like answering the OP's question) then don't post anything. I have all the backbone I need, thank you, and I refuse to further lower myself by getting into a interwebz pissing match with you. Have a nice day.
Woah woah woah, who pissed in your wheaties this morning?
__________________
There are very few vehicles that can be defined as "made for offroad". Unfortunately, the Wrangler can definitely be defined as "made for offroad" by its inability to handle well on road
ncossey is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 11:03 AM   #42
In a trailer in the woods

WF Supporting Member
 
Barrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Greater downtown Brownsville,Kentucky
Posts: 41,597
Send a message via AIM to Barrie Send a message via Yahoo to Barrie
Okay enough! The E Pissing match ends or this thread is done!
__________________
2006 Unlimited Soft Top


Skillfully disguised as a responsible adult


Barrie is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 11:06 AM   #43
Jeeper
 
ncossey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie in Utah
Okay enough! The E Pissing match ends or this thread is done!
Was definitely joking.
__________________
There are very few vehicles that can be defined as "made for offroad". Unfortunately, the Wrangler can definitely be defined as "made for offroad" by its inability to handle well on road
ncossey is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 11:10 AM   #44
In a trailer in the woods

WF Supporting Member
 
Barrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Greater downtown Brownsville,Kentucky
Posts: 41,597
Send a message via AIM to Barrie Send a message via Yahoo to Barrie
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncossey View Post
Was definitely joking.


Didn't see a smilie at the end of your last post, looked like you were serious to me. Apologies if you were not.
__________________
2006 Unlimited Soft Top


Skillfully disguised as a responsible adult


Barrie is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 11:12 AM   #45
Jeeper
 
bwyman74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncossey View Post
Not to be rude, but if you dont know what they are, you will probably never miss them or need them.
Everyone has to learn sometime!
bwyman74 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 11:13 AM   #46
MTH
Jeeper
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,553
Back to lockers, computerized brakes, and LSDs . . . .

So does the Jeep CPU take into account whether or not you have a factory installed LSD? You can imagine a situation where the brakes would be pumping trying to control a slip and transfer some torque even though the LSD was already doing its part.

If the CPU does operate differently based on whether you have a factory LSD, then it would seem an after market one may not be such a good idea. At the very least, one could imagine it causing some odd behaviors from your Jeep during treacherous situations where both systems would be attempting to operate simultaneously.
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 11:51 AM   #47
UConn Husky

WF Supporting Member
 
Grog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bentonville, AR
Posts: 422
Images: 6
My grasp of the electronic traction control is somewhat tenuous, but I believe it works by monitoring the two wheel speeds and if one is spinning faster than the other it applies the brakes to slow it down, and even in an open diff can transfer the power to the other wheel. How it works in concert with an LSD I'm not sure.
Grog is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 12:14 PM   #48
Jeeper
 
JPWheelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageless Stranger View Post
To know what a locker does you first need to know what the differential does. This video will get you started. Feel free to ask any questions you have. There are plenty of folks here who'll be happy to teach you.
That video was great. I was surprised how old it was at first...but just goes to show how old some of these basic principals are.
JPWheelin is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 12:29 PM   #49
Jeeper
 
ncossey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwyman74

Everyone has to learn sometime!
You are absolutely correct and I agree with you. I definitely wasnt discouraging learning about them, just giving my two cents on the actual use of them.
__________________
There are very few vehicles that can be defined as "made for offroad". Unfortunately, the Wrangler can definitely be defined as "made for offroad" by its inability to handle well on road
ncossey is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 12:34 PM   #50
Jeeper
 
rics1997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bristol, Tn
Posts: 4,764
I have had lockers on several of my trucks in the past and understand that element quite well but I guess that I am missing the point on the Jeep models without lockers.

I have the Trac-Loc on mine but if mine suppose to have a limited slip then why does 4wd have issues driving on concrete? I mean if you turn on dry concrete in 4 wheel drive the front jumps because both are turning and turning at the same speed. So they seem to be locked from right to left. I guess that I am missing what is happening to models without lockers when in 4wd
__________________
2010 Dark Charcoal Pearl Jeep Wrangler Sport S Automatic
4.88 Yukon w/Trac-Lok rear and Eaton ELocker Front - Synergy Gussets - B&M 70264 Trans Cooler
BDS 3" lift - BDS Fox 2.0 Racing Shocks
XHD front Bumper - Trektop NX - Goodyear MT/R w/Kevlar 35X12.5X15 on MB Chaos 5 Wheels - Thrush Turbo Muffler

Become a WranglerForum Supporting Member!
rics1997 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #51
MTH
Jeeper
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I have the Trac-Loc on mine but if mine suppose to have a limited slip then why does 4wd have issues driving on concrete? I mean if you turn on dry concrete in 4 wheel drive the front jumps because both are turning and turning at the same speed. So they seem to be locked from right to left. I guess that I am missing what is happening to models without lockers when in 4wd
My understanding is that a limited slip (or an open) diff will turn without crow hopping in 2wd because both sets of wheels--left to right--can turn at different speeds.

However, the problem in 4wd isn't left to right, it's front to back. The transfer case requires the front and rear driveshafts to be turning at the same rate, and a LSD in the rear and an open diff in the front won't fix this problem.

In other words, in 2wd your front driveshaft isn't turning at all. So crow hopping can arise only because of left to right problems at either axle individually. By contrast, in 4wd crow hopping can arise due to either problems going left to right (as in the case of a 2wd) as well as front to back.

I could be wrong of course, but that's how it was explained to me.
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 12:45 PM   #52
Jeeper
 
Ageless Stranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 26,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPWheelin View Post
That video was great. I was surprised how old it was at first...but just goes to show how old some of these basic principals are.
Yes, that video has been posted on here before. It's handy to learn the basic principals with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I have the Trac-Loc on mine but if mine suppose to have a limited slip then why does 4wd have issues driving on concrete? I mean if you turn on dry concrete in 4 wheel drive the front jumps because both are turning and turning at the same speed. So they seem to be locked from right to left. I guess that I am missing what is happening to models without lockers when in 4wd
The 4wd system in all Wranglers is a Part Time system. That means that it should not be used on dry high traction surfaces. Yes, you have defferential action in your individual axles, but not between the front and rear axle, which is what causes the bucking you're experiencing. This is very hard on your drivetrain.

A Full Time system (or All Wheel Drive system) provides a third differential between the front and rear axle to allow all axles to rotate independently.
Ageless Stranger is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 02:57 PM   #53
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageless Stranger View Post
So you were born with the knowledge of what a locking differential is and what it does, therefore you have use for them, but someone who doesn't currently know what one is will never have use for one?
Well, after 43 years of Jeeps, have taught more than I can count about lockers and all the varities. I commented on the other fellas response and it is still brilliant. Why is the fact there is so much available on info pertaining to same that if he had to ask, at his stage of 4 wheelin'. he probably doesn't need them. Still holds.

Cloudless, like everything else....

best,

Robert
Robert_Stephens is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 03:32 PM   #54
Jeeper
 
nick50471's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bushwood Country Club
Posts: 13,917
At some point even rocket scientists have asked how something works. I bet all the other scientists flamed them for asking.
__________________
License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man, free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit - ever. They're like the Viet Cong - Varmint Cong. So you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that's all she wrote.
nick50471 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 04:19 PM   #55
Jeeper
 
SeaComms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Noosa, QLD, Australia
Posts: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
If all 4 wheels were spinning it was working. That has nothing to do with a loss of traction.
Hey Tom, I tried to clarify that by saying it did work and did work quite well to get all 4 wheels spinning, but the to make it work it seems to lock out brake control from the pedal for 3 to 5 seconds when all 4 wheels are spinning - I guess the brakes are being applied in bursts to all 4 wheels to keep them spinning at the same speed and it needs to block out the master cylinder to stop fluid pumping back up there??

It was this 3 to 5 seconds delay in getting any brakes back I was annoyed with. During this period the brake pedal was hard as a rock and I rolled (not slid) back down the hill!

After going through this I would prefer to rip out the electronics and just go real lockers
SeaComms is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-21-2011, 04:48 PM   #56
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaComms View Post
Hey Tom, I tried to clarify that by saying it did work and did work quite well to get all 4 wheels spinning, but the to make it work it seems to lock out brake control from the pedal for 3 to 5 seconds when all 4 wheels are spinning - I guess the brakes are being applied in bursts to all 4 wheels to keep them spinning at the same speed and it needs to block out the master cylinder to stop fluid pumping back up there??

It was this 3 to 5 seconds delay in getting any brakes back I was annoyed with. During this period the brake pedal was hard as a rock and I rolled (not slid) back down the hill!

After going through this I would prefer to rip out the electronics and just go real lockers
I want to offer something on this, but you said it, actually. When I started with my first 1944 Jeep MB, 44 years ago this month, at the age of 15, I knew from others they talked about some sort of a "locker" and they were not addressing something to put clothes in.

I kept digging and never got it till this really bad 1966, new CJ-5 came into the gas station where I worked with "V-6" on the side, factory and a sticker under that, that said "Detroit." I thought, what is this, Jeeps are made in Toledo. I asked him and he taught me, with diagrams what a "locker" was.

I was off and sailing, er, Jeepin'....

Over all these years, the manual locker is the most sound, keeping it simple stupid mantra in effect, and you are correct. These rigs go in extreme everything, and the simpler, the better, when it really counts.

I'm fighting this big time with 'VEX', verses looking at a new JK and making it into a 'VEX'.....

Great post by the way, in the ice......

Robert

Robert_Stephens is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Four Wheel Drive and Lockers Zeddjb JK General Discussion Forum 0 08-08-2010 07:23 PM
Lockers, performance, uninstall? Flyguychad TJ General Discussion Forum 20 05-15-2010 01:30 AM
Aussie Lockers?? Anything Cheaper than ARB? Timberman TJ General Discussion Forum 15 11-12-2008 07:07 PM
Calling all gear heads!! Lockers!! Timberman TJ General Discussion Forum 13 10-04-2008 12:48 PM
Lockers? whitebuffalo General Jeep Discussion 16 07-05-2005 06:22 PM



Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:28 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC