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Old 12-27-2013, 07:30 AM   #1
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New wheel designs

As the wheel designer for Interco tire company and a very avid hunter and wheeler I always place function before beauty. The Birddog wheel is a testament to that. But JK's are not YJ or CJ's. Each is unique to itself. There for the Birddog JSE or Jeep special edition. Am in the finishing stages before molds are cut.
Proposed changes are 5" backspace, 17x8.5, and 17x9 with 3.5" backspace. Both hubcentric, accept OE jeep center cap, redesigned low pressure retention bead, much stronger inner bead with low retention feature added, better cooling and enhanced self cleaning abilities. and last more protection for dual valvestems
Did I leave anything out that you as Jk drivers want in a wheel?

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Old 12-27-2013, 07:41 AM   #2
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I would like to see a 16 inch option with 4.75-4.5 backspace. Maybe 8.5 or 9 inches wide. I run 16's and the selection is limited IMO. Tires are cheaper too. As well as the size addition it would be nice to see another wheel protect the valve stem like the AEV pintler does. I have personally bent 2 stems over the years.

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Old 12-27-2013, 07:53 AM   #3
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In the birddog LT there will be a 16 and a 15". Ya 15 too. The15" will have a 3.25" back space. 8" wide. So a 35/1250r 15/C will work on lighter lifted jk. The tall sidewalls really allow for super ride and flotation, super affordable too. 16" will be 4.5" backspace with 8.5" wide. Might take your suggestions to make it 4.75" back. Think of anything else let me know... what finish.... and don't say chrome.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:58 AM   #4
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Teflon finish in a black and gray would make me happy
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:00 AM   #5
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One of key features in any Birddog wheel is valvestem placement and angle.
I too have torn off stems. But no more. All dogs have two stems 180 degrees apart and placed as far to inside as possible. Out of more then a thousand jeep wheels sold no one has been able to snag a stem...so be at peace, got you back on that
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:10 AM   #6
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Looked at Teflon as well as other finishes and desired on an incredible hard corrosion resistant finish. The black on the current dog is a special super hard composition, the clear coat is the same patented finish used on ranger boat wheels. Every wheel is coated inside and out and including the inside of the caps to resist corrosion. Current birddog is designed to clean itself and it does so.
Teflon itself isn't expensive its the application of it that cost. So it all boils down to cost benefits. Teflon cleans very easy but lacks the durability in other areas.
But grey? Never looked at that. May have to. Thanks for input.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:18 AM   #7
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I admired what I call Black Chrome wheels on a friends new FX 4x4.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:19 AM   #8
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please make a 17X8 with 5" backspacing. Keep the weight under 28lbs or so. Price them decently and I will buy them.

Look at the finish of the Raceline Raptor in is a matte black like tefelon finish not sure what it actually was but it was extremely durable and shed mud pretty well considering all the nooks and crannies.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:04 AM   #9
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Sir Ricky dog, I think I know what your talking about. But can you send picture? If it checks out to ne a very durable finish... ya never know. The birddog LT is designed but finish and color is the only hold up. And I never thought of black chrome, thanks.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:13 AM   #10
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Current17x9 comes in at 27 pounds. Everything possible was done to keep unsprung weight down. The geometry of the wheel gives it the highest load and tire size capacity in industry. 3000 lbs at 37" tall tire.
The 17x8 would come in a lighter but drop down to 3000 lb load 35" tire.
17x9 3.5" back will remain the same.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:19 AM   #11
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Current17x9 comes in at 27 pounds. Everything possible was done to keep unsprung weight down. The geometry of the wheel gives it the highest load and tire size capacity in industry. 3000 lbs at 37" tall tire.
The 17x8 would come in a lighter but drop down to 3000 lb load 35" tire.
17x9 3.5" back will remain the same.
that is great. I think most rims are rated at 2200-2500 so at 27lbs or lighter it would be great. Can you post or even pm me a possible ~price range? Seems like in 17X8 with 5" bs the perfect rim to run 285/75-17's on.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:55 PM   #12
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I never thought of black chrome, thanks.
+1

Not all of us want a military-style look, with flat finishes. I would do a black chrome in a heartbeat. It would allow me to put a brighter finish on the bumpers and sliders. Many of the JK owners want a look, but no intention of going crawling.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtire View Post
As the wheel designer for Interco tire company and a very avid hunter and wheeler I always place function before beauty. The Birddog wheel is a testament to that. But JK's are not YJ or CJ's. Each is unique to itself. There for the Birddog JSE or Jeep special edition. Am in the finishing stages before molds are cut.
Proposed changes are 5" backspace, 17x8.5, and 17x9 with 3.5" backspace. Both hubcentric, accept OE jeep center cap, redesigned low pressure retention bead, much stronger inner bead with low retention feature added, better cooling and enhanced self cleaning abilities. and last more protection for dual valvestems
Did I leave anything out that you as Jk drivers want in a wheel?
5" backspace IMHO is too much with an aftermarket wheel. I'd start with a 4.5" down to 3.5 or 3.75" for 15" wheels. Most run wider tires and need the extra clearance.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:47 PM   #14
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5" backspace imho is too much with an aftermarket wheel. I'd start with a 4.5" down to 3.5 or 3.75" for 15" wheels. Most run wider tires and need the extra clearance.

x2
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:31 PM   #15
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5" backspace IMHO is too much with an aftermarket wheel. I'd start with a 4.5" down to 3.5 or 3.75" for 15" wheels. Most run wider tires and need the extra clearance.
I disagree I think 5" is the perfect amount especially for overland type expedition vehicles that want to run to skinny taller tires. Look at AEV wheels they are 5.2" they used to have some that were like 4.6" but they no longer make those and soley make 5.2" bs wheels. I think the 3.5" will fill one niche and the 5" will fill another. Most people that want to run fatter tires will go with the 17X9 with 3.5" and ones who want something narrower will run 17X8 with 5". I might split the difference and agree on 4.75" but for me there is no reason to have any more with a 285/75-17 tire.

yesterday when I had the 285/75-17's mounted I had to drive home with them on stock rims with out spacers and checking clearances I would have spot on with 1" extra backspacing just to clear the rear upper control arms. stock I had about an inch of clearance and 2" would have been perfect. That would still keep the tire fully inside the stock flares.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:18 PM   #16
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Looking forward to getting a set for my JKUR
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:36 PM   #17
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I disagree I think 5" is the perfect amount especially for overland type expedition vehicles that want to run to skinny taller tires. Look at AEV wheels they are 5.2" they used to have some that were like 4.6" but they no longer make those and soley make 5.2" bs wheels. I think the 3.5" will fill one niche and the 5" will fill another. Most people that want to run fatter tires will go with the 17X9 with 3.5" and ones who want something narrower will run 17X8 with 5". I might split the difference and agree on 4.75" but for me there is no reason to have any more with a 285/75-17 tire.

yesterday when I had the 285/75-17's mounted I had to drive home with them on stock rims with out spacers and checking clearances I would have spot on with 1" extra backspacing just to clear the rear upper control arms. stock I had about an inch of clearance and 2" would have been perfect. That would still keep the tire fully inside the stock flares.
To be clear, I wasn't speaking as a potential customer, but rather as a business investor...while SOME people do run purpose "scalpel" built rigs, most buy fat tires and they need clearance...from a business perspective, having to tool the shop, have CNC designs, etc, the most common aftermarket backspace is going to be 4.5". Those that want pizza cutters will often stick with factory wheels (with aftermarket tires). I don't disagree with your post from a customer perspective, but from a business view, you start with what sells the most, even if its a pink flower rim.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #18
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A couple of things I hate about some wheel designs are sharp edges, decorative crevices without purpose, and fake bolt heads. These things are a bitch to clean around and are a collection point for road salts and other corrosives. If a wheel is easy to clean, its finish will last a lot longer than a wheel with a lot of superfluous decorative touches.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:29 PM   #19
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As I listen to conversation it seems clear that the use and needs of one is not for another.
T
Interco has built its reputation by building to the needs with a little flair now and then. The Birddog wheel is no exception. 100 percent functional with a little looks thrown in. But the JSE wheel is slightly different it has to meet the wants, as stated, and desires as well as functional. As far as finish, titty pink would work for me.....if that is what the masses want. (I draw the line on chrome). Fitment s not a issue, got you all covered there. If you recall the Birddog is designed in two different backspace instead of two different finishes. Function before beauty. JSE designed to fit an function. LT series to have some fitment compromise some functional qualities of the JSE but looks and price will drive it. I'm not even going to mention the HC or hard core. Radical and powerful for the 5 percenters.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:55 PM   #20
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can you give us a hint at prices?
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:12 PM   #21
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A 17-8 in the JSE be in the 200.00
I was asked once why so expensive I asked for a wheel to compare it too. I'm still waiting.
The LT series in 17-8.5 will come in at 147.00 give or take. Thats the target anyway. Hows that?
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #22
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can you give us a hint at prices?
Search engines are your friend.
These prices, (list), don't seem out of line.

Interco Birddog Wheels by National Tire & Wheel
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:34 PM   #23
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If you only knew what it takes to keep cost down during development, would scare you.
Keep comments coming. Need input
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:53 PM   #24
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As I listen to conversation it seems clear that the use and needs of one is not for another.
T
Interco has built its reputation by building to the needs with a little flair now and then. The Birddog wheel is no exception. 100 percent functional with a little looks thrown in. But the JSE wheel is slightly different it has to meet the wants, as stated, and desires as well as functional. As far as finish, titty pink would work for me.....if that is what the masses want. (I draw the line on chrome). Fitment s not a issue, got you all covered there. If you recall the Birddog is designed in two different backspace instead of two different finishes. Function before beauty. JSE designed to fit an function. LT series to have some fitment compromise some functional qualities of the JSE but looks and price will drive it. I'm not even going to mention the HC or hard core. Radical and powerful for the 5 percenters.
Ok so I don't understand. The JSE will be a hubcentric wheel for jk? What are the HC line? I don't even see that one your website. And I will take them in titty pink please.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:55 AM   #25
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Might I recommend opening the holes a bit? They appear too small in scale to the wheel. Additionally, I'd recommend a cast or machined guard around the valve stem. The way the wheel is depicted, with such a wide, smooth surface around the stem placement hole, it is just ripe for being peeled off of there by a rock, branch, whatever.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:20 AM   #26
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Valvestem location on all but the 17" are placed and recessed inboard by almost2" more. The JSE will have larger tear dropped holes with stems recessed and angled in the bottom of tear drop. Design of holes and angles are to facilitate air flow for brake cooling.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:24 AM   #27
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No, not going to talk about HC wheel . I will only tell you it will be designed to beat king of the hammer without a problem.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:32 AM   #28
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Well I already commented, but I'd just like to say thanks for actually coming on here and taking suggestions, and trying to please most wants. I am a fan of function over form, so I can appreciate where you're coming from. I don't like the fake beadlock look and fake rivets, but if the wheel is pretty light, strong, looks good, and is fairly reasonable in price I can live with a few.

I guess when you mention "cost cutting" I can assume they're not made in the US
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:35 AM   #29
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Yes, the JSE will be made by americans for the world. New foundry in US is planned to produce them.
The world hasn't learned that true Americans don't take the word "can't " as absolute but as a challenge. They underestimate our tenacity.
Just so you know. The current birddog wheel has no fake bolts or rings. The holes you see are "gauge" holes. If you manage to chunk out the outer ring deeper then holes.you might effect structure strength. The outer ring is smoothly tapered on inside to allow logs and rocks to slip off and not hang up. The outer edge has a.recess to allow RIM protectors on tires to flex around RIM edge. Total function, no looks.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:39 AM   #30
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Thank you mello03 for your thoughts. I hope 2014 brings New and wonderful adventures.

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