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Old 04-13-2014, 09:18 AM   #1
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Re-thinking winch selection...

After much consideration, I bought and installed a Warn Zeon 10-s winch. GoWarn offered the standard price on the winch, free shipping, and a free $130 wireless remote. I liked it all and bought it.

However, my other choice was the Quadratec Q10000C (Competition). It weighs 55 lbs, has 10,000 lb pull, draws 300 A @ 8000 lbs, has 50' of synthetic rope, all for $600.

It's not that I think the Q10000 is a better winch, but I do believe it is a reliable winch. Some perspective: I could have bought two Q10000C's for the price I paid for my Zeon 10-s. Now I'm not sure what the significance is here, other than the obvious cost factor.

Another asset of the Q10000C is it's a bit more compact, and it draws about 17% less current at 8000 lbs. That is not necessarily significant, but something.

For many, the 50' line would be a problem. I thought that too, but on re-thinking, it likely would not be for me, i.e. me specifically. I don't plan to do hard core off-roading so it's doubtful that I would ever need to winch more than 10-20 feet much less likely need to winch 50'.

Of course it is likely that I would need to reach an anchor further than 50' feet away, but that could be done with a second cable. The second cable only becomes an issue if you have to winch further than the length of your winch cable and even then there are techniques to 'capture' progress and reset. Also there's that winch distance again, it is highly unlikely I would ever have to winch more than 50 feet to clear problem.

All that being said, if you find yourself selecting a winch and your applications are similar to mine, I would really have to think hard about going for the twice as expensive Warn winch.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and satisfied with the Zeon but at the same time, it may have been an 'over buy' - for me.

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Old 04-13-2014, 09:29 AM   #2
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50 foot is not far at all, and you will lose part of that by leaving the last wraps on the drum. Just make sure to always have another cable, strap etc

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Old 04-13-2014, 09:38 AM   #3
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"However, my other choice was the Quadratec Q10000C (Competition). It weighs 55 lbs, has 10,000 lb pull, draws 300 A @ 8000 lbs, has 50' of synthetic rope, all for $600."

I have also been considering the Quadratec Q10000C winch, mainly for the weight. With a spare 50' cable and a few more straps I think all would be good.........
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:40 AM   #4
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50 foot is not far at all, and you will lose part of that by leaving the last wraps on the drum. Just make sure to always have another cable, strap etc
True, it isn't very far and you do lose about a little over 8 feet with the recommended 10 wrap minimum for syn line.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:46 AM   #5
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"However, my other choice was the Quadratec Q10000C (Competition). It weighs 55 lbs, has 10,000 lb pull, draws 300 A @ 8000 lbs, has 50' of synthetic rope, all for $600."

I have also been considering the Quadratec Q10000C winch, mainly for the weight. With a spare 50' cable and a few more straps I think all would be good.........
The weight is attractive but a bit deceiving at the same time. Winches are roughly in the 75-80 lb range, which means they are approximately 37% heavier than the Q10000. While that is a huge difference, when the winches are mounted on a 4400 lb Jeep, the weight difference becomes insignificant.

E.g. the percent difference in the Q10000 and my Zeon 10 when mounted on the Jeep is only 0.45% (half of 1%).

But I still think the Q10000C is a good choice - after all it is $600 less expensive.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:02 AM   #6
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Tangle, weight is my prime consideration when purchasing products for the Jeep. A 55# bumper with a 55# winch is acceptable weight IMO.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:40 PM   #7
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If you hadn't bought a winch yet, might make sense to re-consider. Since you already have the winch and remote installed, not really much point to change your mind. Nothing bad about having the more expensive winch after the fact. You have a winch that will probably be more reliable than the QT.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:46 PM   #8
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Quadratec states the weight is with a 100 foot steel cable too. The amp draw is appealing too. Even if you buy a new longer cable or just a recovery strap for when you need the length, you're way under the price of a Warn, so much so you could almost afford to buy a second one. If the Warn had a superior warranty it might be worth it but it doesn't. Personally, I have a hard time justifying the Warn over the Qtech winches, especially for occasional use.

As far as weight, it might not seem like much but it adds up. A few pounds here and a few pounds there become a lot of pounds before you know it. Not to mention, you're putting that weight about as far from the fulcrum as possible meaning it acts like it weighs even more.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:22 PM   #9
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If you hadn't bought a winch yet, might make sense to re-consider. Since you already have the winch and remote installed, not really much point to change your mind. Nothing bad about having the more expensive winch after the fact. You have a winch that will probably be more reliable than the QT.
Oh, I agree. I don't regret my purchase, I think I've got a great winch. But, it's probably more than any of my applications would need. But as you say, nothing bad about that.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:31 PM   #10
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Quadratec states the weight is with a 100 foot steel cable too.
You must be referring to one of the other Q winches. The Q10000C is listed with a 50' synthetic cable.

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Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
...As far as weight, it might not seem like much but it adds up. A few pounds here and a few pounds there become a lot of pounds before you know it. Not to mention, you're putting that weight about as far from the fulcrum as possible meaning it acts like it weighs even more.
The package weight is what the Jeep or winch has to pull. So the difference in weight of the Jeep plus a 55 lb winch vs the weight of the Jeep and a 75# winch is 0.44% - less than one half of one percent.

As for placement, the front axle centerline is the fulcrum point and the winch is about as close to that as it can get. Plus, the placement of the winch does not influence weight, it just redistributes it slightly. If you put the Jeep on a platform scale and then lay the winch anywhere on the platform or if you mount it to the front or rear of the Jeep, everything will weigh the same.

What the location does do is change the weight distribution very slightly between the front and rear wheels.
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:32 PM   #11
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I know if I was stuck in the middle of no where and it was a matter of life or death for one of my family members or friends, I know which winch I would rather be depending on.
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:52 PM   #12
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You must be referring to one of the other Q winches. The Q10000C is listed with a 50' synthetic cable.
It's in the description. I guess for comparison purposes.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:16 PM   #13
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I know if I was stuck in the middle of no where and it was a matter of life or death for one of my family members or friends, I know which winch I would rather be depending on.
Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, it wouldn't make a bit of - wait, in the middle of nowhere you said??? - ..... still it wouldn't matter what the.......uhhh, did you say life or death???......why would it.......hmmm.....middle of nowhere...life or death....I'm glad I have my Zeon!

I'm just kidding guys. Honestly, I can't find any data that shows that one winch is more reliable than the other. That leaves us with personal experience and observations which can not be disregarded, but the circumstances of failures can vary so much it's difficult to make comparisons. E.g. what if it was a case of operator error; what if the failure was caused by a weak battery, etc.

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It's in the description. I guess for comparison purposes.
Where did you see that? Here's the Qtech page for the Q10000C winch - notice the "C" at the end of the model number:

This is the 'C' winch ("C" for competition):
Quadratec Exclusive 92122 2050 - Quadratec Q10000c Competition Winch with Synthetic Line - Quadratec
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:22 PM   #14
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Warns probably way better.

I have a quadratec q9000. I havent gotten to use it yet, i broke my leg shortly after installing it, and havent wheeled since....

Its about 6 months old, has a little minor rust, the logos are fading on it. It needs to have a cover.

Seems to me they put a good winch together with just cheap finishing touches on it.....

You can get extension ropes for your winch. You shouldnt be winching yourself 100 feet anyhow. What in the hell are you doing to get that stuck? You really only need that kind of length to get hooked up to a tree...an extension would be great

No one will steal your quadratec winch though!!
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Old 04-13-2014, 04:50 PM   #15
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Where did you see that? Here's the Qtech page for the Q10000C winch - notice the "C" at the end of the model number:

This is the 'C' winch ("C" for competition):
Quadratec Exclusive 92122 2050 - Quadratec Q10000c Competition Winch with Synthetic Line - Quadratec
Quote:
Our Competition winch is about half the weight of comparably rated winches with 100’ of steel cable.
About 5 lines down. Now that I reread that, I think they're saying it's less than half the weight of another winch with 100' of steel cable. It's a bit confusing. Why compare your winch with 50' of synthetic line to other winches with 100' of steel? To confuse people.
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Old 04-13-2014, 05:01 PM   #16
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About 5 lines down. Now that I reread that, I think they're saying it's less than half the weight of another winch with 100' of steel cable. It's a bit confusing. Why compare your winch with 50' of synthetic line to other winches with 100' of steel? To confuse people.
must work lol.
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Old 04-13-2014, 05:40 PM   #17
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Yeah, marketing to the weak-minded.

OP- stick with the winch you have. The Zeon is a great winch. I like the fact that it is also sealed really well.
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:05 PM   #18
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Here's another vote for something other than Warn. I was showing my buddy my winch install (Champion on a Rugged Ridge stock bumper mount). He doesn't live in the best part of town. His comment was "Good thing it isn't a Warn, that way it isn't certain to get jacked". One advantage of using a cheap winch.
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:15 PM   #19
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For four wheelers, winches are usually a last resort tool to get unstuck. Would you buy an off-brand parachute?
I've never seen a tow truck with a Quadratec winch, or seen its use in any other professional application. I see WARN used by pro's all the time.

No offense to Quadratec owners, but you should have no regrets. If you're going to use your winch as more than window dressing on the front of your jeep, you made the best choice..
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:41 PM   #20
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For four wheelers, winches are usually a last resort tool to get unstuck. Would you buy an off-brand parachute?
I've never seen a tow truck with a Qtech winch, or seen its use in any other professional application. I see WARN used by pro's all the time.

No offense to qtech owners, but you should have no regrets, you made the best choice..
This is the most intelligent post in this thread.

I enjoy how people who sacrifice quality for cost always have to justify it. In this case the OP made the right choice and is having a bit of buyers remorse. OP there is nothing better about the QT winch than the Zeon you have. NOTHING.


I have wheeled my entire life. I have seen every manufacturer of winch fail. Some due to lack of maintenance, some due to overload and plenty because they are crap. I wouldn't put a QT winch on Jeep, trailer or ATV.

OP you made the right choice.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:49 AM   #21
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...I enjoy how people who sacrifice quality for cost always have to justify it.
You must enjoy life a lot then because people do that all the time. We buy many things, e.g. cars, based on price.

The problem here is, the lack of any kind of documentation, i.e. statistical numbers to support your implication that an item that costs twice as much as another brand is of lesser quality.

Even if they are of lesser quality, does that necessarily mean they will fail under occasional use?

Personal experiences and observations can be skewed either through ignoring extenuating circumstances, concluding that all winches of a certain brand are inferior based on a rare factory defect of one winch. The observer may not recognize that user misuse caused the problem and it may have occurred regardless of brand. The observe may unintentional group all non Warn winches together and if any one of them fail, it condemns all of them.

I'm not saying Warning isn't good; I'm not saying Warn isn't the most reliable, I'm simply saying show me how many winch failures you've seen of all brands, along with, and this is inseparable, the conditions under which the failure occurred, including the battery and battery condition and the nature of the failure. Then we can generate numbers for comparison to see how the reliabilities compare.

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...OP there is nothing better about the QT winch than the Zeon you have. NOTHING.
How would you prove such a bold claim?

Price is better, current draw at a given load is significantly less.

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...I have wheeled my entire life. I have seen every manufacturer of winch fail.
Exactly!

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...I wouldn't put a QT winch on Jeep, trailer or ATV.
How many Qtechs have you seen fail?

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...OP you made the right choice.
I like it!
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:01 AM   #22
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I think you won't be happy until you get a QT. Not sure why but that is what I am reading into your posts. I bet you don't see many QT's at KOH or other hard core events. Life is too short to have regrets on purchases we make so if you think the QT is more your style you should sell the Warn before you use it and you will get a good chunk of your money back. Hopefully you will take this in the context I meant it to be.

I have never seen a Warn fail. My buddy has a QT and you can barely free spool the line out. It pulls fine but takes two men and a boy to unspool the cable. it also sounds like a can of ball bearings when pulling but so far has pulled a lot.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:17 AM   #23
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Usually you do so the other way around. That I shoulda bought the better item. In this case the better winch. But you did buy the better winch. Only problem is it cost a fortune. I'd like a zeon but can't afford it. I got too many other hobbies and can't sink that much into just one. When I get my winch it's probably gonna be the qtech. Will I regret it? Won't know yet. If it pulls me out when I get stuck I'll definitely say well worth it and recommend them. If it breaks then I'll wish I just spent the money on the warn. But it's a gamble unfortunately. I can see if your life depended on getting out of the desert or remote part of the world but if not cheaper and simple works.
The way I'm looking at it in your case is if you can really afford it and are gonna use it the way it was made, keep the zeon. You'll probably never have to worry or even think about any winch again. If not get the qtech and use the saved money on other things.
Oh and I'd get the qtech 11000 winch or similar. Not the competition winch with only 50 feet of line. Just my opinion.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:33 AM   #24
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I think you won't be happy until you get a QT. Not sure why but that is what I am reading into your posts.
You're misreading me. I have no intention of buying a QT. From my OP:

"Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and satisfied with the Zeon but at the same time, it may have been an 'over buy' - for me. "

But I am a bit sensitive to claims that can only be supported by one's personal observations and experiences. People, myself included, generalize their observations and experiences far more than we should. We draw conclusions about things that, if we could see the actual numbers, would indicate something totally different than what we saw.

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...I bet you don't see many QT's at KOH or other hard core events.
You also won't see stock suspensions, stock axles, stock differentials, stock wheels, stock tires, stock hubs, stock bumpers, etc. and all will likely have lift kits and disconnectable sway bars.

You won't see guys that compete in hard core bicycling competitions on stock bicycles but that doesn't mean the average guy needs a $3000 titanium frame bike with all the competition accessories.

I'm not saying QT is good, bad, or ugly; I'm just saying I don't know and I'm not so sure that the occasional off-roader has to pay twice as much for a Warn winch to INSURE he won't have a failure.

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...Life is too short to have regrets on purchases we make so if you think the QT is more your style you should sell the Warn before you use it and you will get a good chunk of your money back. Hopefully you will take this in the context I meant it to be.
Again, I have no intentions of replacing my Warn winch. All I've indicated is that it may be more than I really needed for causal winching applications.

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...I have never seen a Warn fail.
Others have seen a Warn fail. This is that generalization thing. The logic seems to be, if we haven't seen a Warn fail, then there have not been any Warn failures.

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...My buddy has a QT and you can barely free spool the line out. It pulls fine but takes two men and a boy to unspool the cable. it also sounds like a can of ball bearings when pulling but so far has pulled a lot.
That's not a failure; that's a property of the winch due to the higher gear ratio. While that makes it harder to free spool, that also reduces the current draw on the battery when winching a load. Lower current is easier on the battery and produces less heating in the motor. Motor heat comes from I^2*R (current through the winch squared, times the winch's internal electrical resistance). Small increases in current produce much higher values of heat. For example, at 8000 lbs a Warn m8000 draws 353 amps; a QT 9500 draws 300 amps. Hence the Warn has to dissipate 38% more heat - so does the battery.

So while the higher gearing makes it harder to free spool, it's an advantage to winching. That's not a failure.

But, how many QTs have you seen fail to recover a vehicle where a Warn would have succeeded in non-hard core off-roading?

Again, I'm simply saying I don't know. I'm saying I can't find any info on failure rates under similar conditions anywhere. The only thing I've seen is that infamous article that pulled the test winches to stall and the Warn failed completely.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:54 AM   #25
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Usually you do so the other way around. That I shoulda bought the better item. In this case the better winch. But you did buy the better winch. Only problem is it cost a fortune. I'd like a zeon but can't afford it. I got too many other hobbies and can't sink that much into just one. When I get my winch it's probably gonna be the qtech. Will I regret it? Won't know yet. If it pulls me out when I get stuck I'll definitely say well worth it and recommend them. If it breaks then I'll wish I just spent the money on the warn. But it's a gamble unfortunately. I can see if your life depended on getting out of the desert or remote part of the world but if not cheaper and simple works.
The way I'm looking at it in your case is if you can really afford it and are gonna use it the way it was made, keep the zeon. You'll probably never have to worry or even think about any winch again. If not get the qtech and use the saved money on other things.
Oh and I'd get the qtech 11000 winch or similar. Not the competition winch with only 50 feet of line. Just my opinion.
Your post exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. Warn winches cost twice as much as the Q11500 with 100 ft of syn rope. Many people can't or as in your case, simply don't want to put that much money into a winch, and fortunately there are other brands that are more affordable.

You may need to re-read the last line of my OP, quoted here:

"Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and satisfied with the Zeon but at the same time, it may have been an 'over buy' - for me."

I think you and I are much in the same place, although I went ahead and bought the Warn, whereas you will likely buy a QT, and like you clearly stated, it may be a bit of a gamble, then again it may not be.

I find there's a lot of exaggeration in 'failure' posts, be it guns, cars, winches, compound bows, whatever. Much of it is unintentional and due to our human nature. This comes because we hear more about failures than successes. We might read of 10 QT failures (and I haven't seen that many) but the next 10,000 users might not have any failures. That's a failure rate of 0.1%. But if one person saw all the failures, he would erroneously conclude that brand is junk, when if fact a 0.1% failure rate is pretty admirable.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:13 AM   #26
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A winch is only as good as how you maintain it. Service all winches and they will be very reliable. Even if the winch says it does not need servicing all of the winches I have serviced say other wise.

Preventative maintenance minimizes winch failure.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:42 AM   #27
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I'm feeling a little awkward here as if I've started something that wasn't intended, so let me see if I can clarify this before we go on.

My purpose in the thread was to acknowledge that while the Warn winch may be the most reliable, although I've seen no failure rate studies to support that, many of us may not need, nor can, nor want to pay double for the most reliable winch out there when, for our non-competitive, non-hard core uses, we would be just as well served with something other than an expensive Warn.

That takes nothing away from the Warn winch. OTOH, some are making this out that any winch other than a Warn is going to fail you at the worse possible time. Yet, there is very little support for that claim.

My purpose was to enumerate the functional advantages I saw in a Q10000C as compared to my Warn Zeon. Again that's not taking anything away from the Warn winch.

However, if the Qtech is the junk some claim, although completely unsupported even by their personal observation, or at least not stated, but if the Qtec winches are junk, then that trumps all the functional advantages. Let's face it, nobody wants a winch that's going to let them down. The issue is how likely is that to happen with a given brand?

And let's be careful here that we don't group winches in a Warn and non-Warn groups. The problem with that is if we see a non-Warn winch fail, then it's inferred that any brand but a Warn will fail, and that's simply not reasonable.

I simply was comparing features vs anticipated applications. Not every winch application is pulling a jeep over boulders or one sunk up to the fenders in thick mud.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:13 PM   #28
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If you think agonizing over a winch purchase is/was tough wait until you try and decide on what lift to install or what oil to run or lug centric vs hub centric for rims ......lol.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:36 PM   #29
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I honestly feel like this is a bad comparison thread. You are comparing Warns top of the line winch to QT. However, Warn offers winches at MANY price points. I havent researched deep enough, concerning the specs, but its an unfair comparison regardless of the brand. Am I saying that I would buy a QT over a Warn? No...but at least make it a fair comparison.

Would you compare BMW's most luxurious car to Honda's? I kind of doubt it.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Cons_Table View Post
I honestly feel like this is a bad comparison thread. You are comparing Warns top of the line winch to QT. However, Warn offers winches at MANY price points. I havent researched deep enough, concerning the specs, but its an unfair comparison regardless of the brand. Am I saying that I would buy a QT over a Warn? No...but at least make it a fair comparison.
I picked the winch I bought, the Zeon, and compared it to the winch I would have bought if I hadn't bought the Warn - and I have to say, it was a tough call for me. I simply stated in this thread what I found attractive about Qtech Q10000C.

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Originally Posted by Cons_Table View Post
...Would you compare BMW's most luxurious car to Honda's? I kind of doubt it.
No, I wouldn't, the cars involve tens of thousands of dollars difference - the winches only differ by $600. Still that $600 puts the Zeon out of a lot of budgets.

And when I considered the winches, I put heavy emphasis on the electrical demands of the winch. The Qtec's with their higher gear ratios draw significantly less current than similarly priced Warns. That's important to me, not important to others. The Zeon draws less current than any other model of Warn, and that being important to me, I bit the bullet and plunked down another $600. Well, I got a $130 wireless remote free, that helped with the decision too.

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