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Re-thinking winch selection...

4K views 57 replies 20 participants last post by  Tangle 
#1 ·
After much consideration, I bought and installed a Warn Zeon 10-s winch. GoWarn offered the standard price on the winch, free shipping, and a free $130 wireless remote. I liked it all and bought it.

However, my other choice was the Quadratec Q10000C (Competition). It weighs 55 lbs, has 10,000 lb pull, draws 300 A @ 8000 lbs, has 50' of synthetic rope, all for $600.

It's not that I think the Q10000 is a better winch, but I do believe it is a reliable winch. Some perspective: I could have bought two Q10000C's for the price I paid for my Zeon 10-s. Now I'm not sure what the significance is here, other than the obvious cost factor.

Another asset of the Q10000C is it's a bit more compact, and it draws about 17% less current at 8000 lbs. That is not necessarily significant, but something.

For many, the 50' line would be a problem. I thought that too, but on re-thinking, it likely would not be for me, i.e. me specifically. I don't plan to do hard core off-roading so it's doubtful that I would ever need to winch more than 10-20 feet much less likely need to winch 50'.

Of course it is likely that I would need to reach an anchor further than 50' feet away, but that could be done with a second cable. The second cable only becomes an issue if you have to winch further than the length of your winch cable and even then there are techniques to 'capture' progress and reset. Also there's that winch distance again, it is highly unlikely I would ever have to winch more than 50 feet to clear problem.

All that being said, if you find yourself selecting a winch and your applications are similar to mine, I would really have to think hard about going for the twice as expensive Warn winch.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and satisfied with the Zeon but at the same time, it may have been an 'over buy' - for me.
 
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#4 ·
True, it isn't very far and you do lose about a little over 8 feet with the recommended 10 wrap minimum for syn line.
 
#3 ·
"However, my other choice was the Quadratec Q10000C (Competition). It weighs 55 lbs, has 10,000 lb pull, draws 300 A @ 8000 lbs, has 50' of synthetic rope, all for $600."

I have also been considering the Quadratec Q10000C winch, mainly for the weight. With a spare 50' cable and a few more straps I think all would be good.........
 
#5 ·
The weight is attractive but a bit deceiving at the same time. Winches are roughly in the 75-80 lb range, which means they are approximately 37% heavier than the Q10000. While that is a huge difference, when the winches are mounted on a 4400 lb Jeep, the weight difference becomes insignificant.

E.g. the percent difference in the Q10000 and my Zeon 10 when mounted on the Jeep is only 0.45% (half of 1%).

But I still think the Q10000C is a good choice - after all it is $600 less expensive.
 
#7 ·
If you hadn't bought a winch yet, might make sense to re-consider. Since you already have the winch and remote installed, not really much point to change your mind. Nothing bad about having the more expensive winch after the fact. You have a winch that will probably be more reliable than the QT.
 
#9 ·
Oh, I agree. I don't regret my purchase, I think I've got a great winch. But, it's probably more than any of my applications would need. But as you say, nothing bad about that.
 
#8 ·
Quadratec states the weight is with a 100 foot steel cable too. The amp draw is appealing too. Even if you buy a new longer cable or just a recovery strap for when you need the length, you're way under the price of a Warn, so much so you could almost afford to buy a second one. If the Warn had a superior warranty it might be worth it but it doesn't. Personally, I have a hard time justifying the Warn over the Qtech winches, especially for occasional use.

As far as weight, it might not seem like much but it adds up. A few pounds here and a few pounds there become a lot of pounds before you know it. Not to mention, you're putting that weight about as far from the fulcrum as possible meaning it acts like it weighs even more.
 
#10 ·
Quadratec states the weight is with a 100 foot steel cable too.
You must be referring to one of the other Q winches. The Q10000C is listed with a 50' synthetic cable.

...As far as weight, it might not seem like much but it adds up. A few pounds here and a few pounds there become a lot of pounds before you know it. Not to mention, you're putting that weight about as far from the fulcrum as possible meaning it acts like it weighs even more.
The package weight is what the Jeep or winch has to pull. So the difference in weight of the Jeep plus a 55 lb winch vs the weight of the Jeep and a 75# winch is 0.44% - less than one half of one percent.

As for placement, the front axle centerline is the fulcrum point and the winch is about as close to that as it can get. Plus, the placement of the winch does not influence weight, it just redistributes it slightly. If you put the Jeep on a platform scale and then lay the winch anywhere on the platform or if you mount it to the front or rear of the Jeep, everything will weigh the same.

What the location does do is change the weight distribution very slightly between the front and rear wheels.
 
#11 ·
I know if I was stuck in the middle of no where and it was a matter of life or death for one of my family members or friends, I know which winch I would rather be depending on.
 
#13 ·
Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, it wouldn't make a bit of - wait, in the middle of nowhere you said??? - ..... still it wouldn't matter what the.......uhhh, did you say life or death???......why would it.......hmmm.....middle of nowhere...life or death....I'm glad I have my Zeon!

I'm just kidding guys. Honestly, I can't find any data that shows that one winch is more reliable than the other. That leaves us with personal experience and observations which can not be disregarded, but the circumstances of failures can vary so much it's difficult to make comparisons. E.g. what if it was a case of operator error; what if the failure was caused by a weak battery, etc.

It's in the description. I guess for comparison purposes.
Where did you see that? Here's the Qtech page for the Q10000C winch - notice the "C" at the end of the model number:

This is the 'C' winch ("C" for competition):
Quadratec Exclusive 92122 2050 - Quadratec Q10000c Competition Winch with Synthetic Line - Quadratec
 
#14 ·
Warns probably way better.

I have a quadratec q9000. I havent gotten to use it yet, i broke my leg shortly after installing it, and havent wheeled since....

Its about 6 months old, has a little minor rust, the logos are fading on it. It needs to have a cover.

Seems to me they put a good winch together with just cheap finishing touches on it.....

You can get extension ropes for your winch. You shouldnt be winching yourself 100 feet anyhow. What in the hell are you doing to get that stuck? You really only need that kind of length to get hooked up to a tree...an extension would be great

No one will steal your quadratec winch though!!
 
#17 ·
Yeah, marketing to the weak-minded.

OP- stick with the winch you have. The Zeon is a great winch. I like the fact that it is also sealed really well.
 
#18 ·
Here's another vote for something other than Warn. I was showing my buddy my winch install (Champion on a Rugged Ridge stock bumper mount). He doesn't live in the best part of town. His comment was "Good thing it isn't a Warn, that way it isn't certain to get jacked". One advantage of using a cheap winch.
 
#19 ·
For four wheelers, winches are usually a last resort tool to get unstuck. Would you buy an off-brand parachute?
I've never seen a tow truck with a Quadratec winch, or seen its use in any other professional application. I see WARN used by pro's all the time.

No offense to Quadratec owners, but you should have no regrets. If you're going to use your winch as more than window dressing on the front of your jeep, you made the best choice..
 
#20 ·
For four wheelers, winches are usually a last resort tool to get unstuck. Would you buy an off-brand parachute?
I've never seen a tow truck with a Qtech winch, or seen its use in any other professional application. I see WARN used by pro's all the time.

No offense to qtech owners, but you should have no regrets, you made the best choice..
This is the most intelligent post in this thread.

I enjoy how people who sacrifice quality for cost always have to justify it. In this case the OP made the right choice and is having a bit of buyers remorse. OP there is nothing better about the QT winch than the Zeon you have. NOTHING.


I have wheeled my entire life. I have seen every manufacturer of winch fail. Some due to lack of maintenance, some due to overload and plenty because they are crap. I wouldn't put a QT winch on Jeep, trailer or ATV.

OP you made the right choice.
 
#22 ·
I think you won't be happy until you get a QT. Not sure why but that is what I am reading into your posts. I bet you don't see many QT's at KOH or other hard core events. Life is too short to have regrets on purchases we make so if you think the QT is more your style you should sell the Warn before you use it and you will get a good chunk of your money back. Hopefully you will take this in the context I meant it to be.

I have never seen a Warn fail. My buddy has a QT and you can barely free spool the line out. It pulls fine but takes two men and a boy to unspool the cable. it also sounds like a can of ball bearings when pulling but so far has pulled a lot.
 
#24 ·
I think you won't be happy until you get a QT. Not sure why but that is what I am reading into your posts.
You're misreading me. I have no intention of buying a QT. From my OP:

"Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and satisfied with the Zeon but at the same time, it may have been an 'over buy' - for me. "

But I am a bit sensitive to claims that can only be supported by one's personal observations and experiences. People, myself included, generalize their observations and experiences far more than we should. We draw conclusions about things that, if we could see the actual numbers, would indicate something totally different than what we saw.

...I bet you don't see many QT's at KOH or other hard core events.
You also won't see stock suspensions, stock axles, stock differentials, stock wheels, stock tires, stock hubs, stock bumpers, etc. and all will likely have lift kits and disconnectable sway bars.

You won't see guys that compete in hard core bicycling competitions on stock bicycles but that doesn't mean the average guy needs a $3000 titanium frame bike with all the competition accessories.

I'm not saying QT is good, bad, or ugly; I'm just saying I don't know and I'm not so sure that the occasional off-roader has to pay twice as much for a Warn winch to INSURE he won't have a failure.

...Life is too short to have regrets on purchases we make so if you think the QT is more your style you should sell the Warn before you use it and you will get a good chunk of your money back. Hopefully you will take this in the context I meant it to be.
Again, I have no intentions of replacing my Warn winch. All I've indicated is that it may be more than I really needed for causal winching applications.

...I have never seen a Warn fail.
Others have seen a Warn fail. This is that generalization thing. The logic seems to be, if we haven't seen a Warn fail, then there have not been any Warn failures.

...My buddy has a QT and you can barely free spool the line out. It pulls fine but takes two men and a boy to unspool the cable. it also sounds like a can of ball bearings when pulling but so far has pulled a lot.
That's not a failure; that's a property of the winch due to the higher gear ratio. While that makes it harder to free spool, that also reduces the current draw on the battery when winching a load. Lower current is easier on the battery and produces less heating in the motor. Motor heat comes from I^2*R (current through the winch squared, times the winch's internal electrical resistance). Small increases in current produce much higher values of heat. For example, at 8000 lbs a Warn m8000 draws 353 amps; a QT 9500 draws 300 amps. Hence the Warn has to dissipate 38% more heat - so does the battery.

So while the higher gearing makes it harder to free spool, it's an advantage to winching. That's not a failure.

But, how many QTs have you seen fail to recover a vehicle where a Warn would have succeeded in non-hard core off-roading?

Again, I'm simply saying I don't know. I'm saying I can't find any info on failure rates under similar conditions anywhere. The only thing I've seen is that infamous article that pulled the test winches to stall and the Warn failed completely.
 
#23 ·
Usually you do so the other way around. That I shoulda bought the better item. In this case the better winch. But you did buy the better winch. Only problem is it cost a fortune. I'd like a zeon but can't afford it. I got too many other hobbies and can't sink that much into just one. When I get my winch it's probably gonna be the qtech. Will I regret it? Won't know yet. If it pulls me out when I get stuck I'll definitely say well worth it and recommend them. If it breaks then I'll wish I just spent the money on the warn. But it's a gamble unfortunately. I can see if your life depended on getting out of the desert or remote part of the world but if not cheaper and simple works.
The way I'm looking at it in your case is if you can really afford it and are gonna use it the way it was made, keep the zeon. You'll probably never have to worry or even think about any winch again. If not get the qtech and use the saved money on other things.
Oh and I'd get the qtech 11000 winch or similar. Not the competition winch with only 50 feet of line. Just my opinion.
 
#25 ·
Your post exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. Warn winches cost twice as much as the Q11500 with 100 ft of syn rope. Many people can't or as in your case, simply don't want to put that much money into a winch, and fortunately there are other brands that are more affordable.

You may need to re-read the last line of my OP, quoted here:

"Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and satisfied with the Zeon but at the same time, it may have been an 'over buy' - for me."

I think you and I are much in the same place, although I went ahead and bought the Warn, whereas you will likely buy a QT, and like you clearly stated, it may be a bit of a gamble, then again it may not be.

I find there's a lot of exaggeration in 'failure' posts, be it guns, cars, winches, compound bows, whatever. Much of it is unintentional and due to our human nature. This comes because we hear more about failures than successes. We might read of 10 QT failures (and I haven't seen that many) but the next 10,000 users might not have any failures. That's a failure rate of 0.1%. But if one person saw all the failures, he would erroneously conclude that brand is junk, when if fact a 0.1% failure rate is pretty admirable.
 
#33 ·
A winch is only as good as how you maintain it. Service all winches and they will be very reliable. Even if the winch says it does not need servicing all of the winches I have serviced say other wise.
Preventative maintenance minimizes winch failure.
The power of omission strikes..
The statement should read; "A quality winch is only as good as how you maintain it"

Cheap is cheap-plain & simple, there's a reason it is so.. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still just a pig...
 
#27 ·
I'm feeling a little awkward here as if I've started something that wasn't intended, so let me see if I can clarify this before we go on.

My purpose in the thread was to acknowledge that while the Warn winch may be the most reliable, although I've seen no failure rate studies to support that, many of us may not need, nor can, nor want to pay double for the most reliable winch out there when, for our non-competitive, non-hard core uses, we would be just as well served with something other than an expensive Warn.

That takes nothing away from the Warn winch. OTOH, some are making this out that any winch other than a Warn is going to fail you at the worse possible time. Yet, there is very little support for that claim.

My purpose was to enumerate the functional advantages I saw in a Q10000C as compared to my Warn Zeon. Again that's not taking anything away from the Warn winch.

However, if the Qtech is the junk some claim, although completely unsupported even by their personal observation, or at least not stated, but if the Qtec winches are junk, then that trumps all the functional advantages. Let's face it, nobody wants a winch that's going to let them down. The issue is how likely is that to happen with a given brand?

And let's be careful here that we don't group winches in a Warn and non-Warn groups. The problem with that is if we see a non-Warn winch fail, then it's inferred that any brand but a Warn will fail, and that's simply not reasonable.

I simply was comparing features vs anticipated applications. Not every winch application is pulling a jeep over boulders or one sunk up to the fenders in thick mud.
 
#28 ·
If you think agonizing over a winch purchase is/was tough wait until you try and decide on what lift to install or what oil to run or lug centric vs hub centric for rims ......lol.
 
#31 ·
I hear ya! :pullinghair:

Actually the next decision may be to lock or not to lock - differential that is. I'm really thinking about putting a selectable in the rear end.

If I made a monster out of winch selection, can you imagine what I'll do choosing a diff? manual, air, electric, ARB, Ox - :eek:

'course you gave me some good advice on the winch; I'm hoping you'll do the same with a locker. :happyyes:
 
#29 ·
I honestly feel like this is a bad comparison thread. You are comparing Warns top of the line winch to QT. However, Warn offers winches at MANY price points. I havent researched deep enough, concerning the specs, but its an unfair comparison regardless of the brand. Am I saying that I would buy a QT over a Warn? No...but at least make it a fair comparison.

Would you compare BMW's most luxurious car to Honda's? I kind of doubt it.
 
#30 ·
I honestly feel like this is a bad comparison thread. You are comparing Warns top of the line winch to QT. However, Warn offers winches at MANY price points. I havent researched deep enough, concerning the specs, but its an unfair comparison regardless of the brand. Am I saying that I would buy a QT over a Warn? No...but at least make it a fair comparison.
I picked the winch I bought, the Zeon, and compared it to the winch I would have bought if I hadn't bought the Warn - and I have to say, it was a tough call for me. I simply stated in this thread what I found attractive about Qtech Q10000C.

...Would you compare BMW's most luxurious car to Honda's? I kind of doubt it.
No, I wouldn't, the cars involve tens of thousands of dollars difference - the winches only differ by $600. Still that $600 puts the Zeon out of a lot of budgets.

And when I considered the winches, I put heavy emphasis on the electrical demands of the winch. The Qtec's with their higher gear ratios draw significantly less current than similarly priced Warns. That's important to me, not important to others. The Zeon draws less current than any other model of Warn, and that being important to me, I bit the bullet and plunked down another $600. Well, I got a $130 wireless remote free, that helped with the decision too.
 
#39 ·
I didn't get the Zeon but I did purchase a VR10000 with synthetic rope. I hope that I don't start second guessing myself. Like the OP - probably too much winch for my limited use but then again rather spend the $$$ now versus buying something cheap and having to replace it because if that happens I would have spent the same amount of dollars as purchasing the Warn outright and that is what I took into consideration.
 
#40 ·
A lot of this depends on choices. E.g. I was only interested in a Q10000C or the Zeon 10-s. The draw of the Q10000 was the lower current draw, lighter weight, compact size, and half the cost.

The draw of the Warn was basically the name, the look, and it did have a lower current drain than any of the other Warn winches with the same rating. And, I guess, honestly, some of it was the elitist in me wanting to sport a big ol Warn winch - that I may never need???

What I think about is I paid $1200 vs $600 for infrequent use.

There are those that believe nobody but Warn can make a reliable winch and nothing that can be done or said would convince them that there are non-Warn winches out there that are reliable and have benefits that Warn winches don't have. They pretty much take the position if it's not a Warn winch, it's a piece of junk and going to break.

But for the rest of us, especially those of us that won't be pulling our Jeeps over boulders and out of fender deep thick gooey mud for 200 feet, we might not need a top of the line winch any more than we need a top of the line car.

Casual off-roaders might use their winch twice a year if that. I have a buddy that's had a Rubicon Unlimited for over 5 years and he's used his winch twice and they weren't maxed out pulls. To hear some tell it, only a Warn winch could survive such demanding use :rolleyes:

Sometimes I see the Zeon I bought like buying 5 gallons of milk when I only needed one gallon. It's not that all the milk isn't good, it's just that it's more than I need.
 
#42 ·
Lol, this thread is some funny stuff!

Get what you think suites your needs, I did! Warn 9500 cti, saved my butt several times without breaking a sweat. Good thing I had it too, my wheeling buddies brand new Qtec 11500 wasn't up to the task the day I was stuck in deep goo 15 miles from pavement in the desert. His JKUR was a fine anchor though! BTW, his new JKUR sports a cti.... He is a quick learner!
 
#45 ·
Lol, this thread is some funny stuff!
Amen to that! Seems one should not even suggest non-Warn winches should be used for anything.

Honestly though, I find all this fascinating. I'm an engineer and love failure analysis etc.

I've had to learn over the years what we think we saw, might not have happened quite the way we thought it did.

Another thing that has made me rethink some things is the requirement for statistical analysis of problems. I thought for the longest time that, that was just some mathematicians job security. But then I realized what it really gives us - a way to analyze real-world things from real-world events. E.g. Suppose I go to a basketball game and I see one player miss half of his foul shots. The obvious conclusion is he's not a good free throw shooter.

But then I find out he has a 90% free throw shooting average! He just had a bad day, but he's an excellent free throw shooter.

What does that have to do with winches? I see 10 QT failures; the problem is not analyzed at all, just fully accredited to the winch - just like the basketball example. So my impression? QT makes poor quality winches. But then I learn that this was 10 failures out of 10,000 winches in service. That's a failure rate of one tenth of one percent. That's really outstanding.

...Warn 9500 cti, saved my butt several times without breaking a sweat. Good thing I had it too, my wheeling buddies brand new Qtec 11500 wasn't up to the task the day I was stuck in deep goo 15 miles from pavement in the desert.
Again as an engineer, I'm always curious about failure modes, failure analysis and causes, so if you wouldn't mind, what caused the QT to fail? Thanks!
 
#44 ·
hmmm, the last of the text in the above post appears to me to be underlined. I tried to edit that out but couldn't. I did not intend for it to be underlined???
 
#46 ·
Ooops! I may need to correct something. I may have said that a Warn winch failed beyond recovery in the Four Wheeler magazine test and that a Qtech did not. It is accurate about the Warn failure, but I remembered the QT inaccurately - it was not in the test.
 
#47 ·
First...Yes I believe Warn makes a high quality product that is expensive when compared to inferior product. Try comparing a Paccar winch to a Warn. If I could afford a Paccar winch one would be on my Jeep.

Second...I have stated several times that all winches fail. Even Warn. The very nice thing about Warn is that they have parts available to repair them. Engo is actually making a big splash and does make the best import winch.

Third...As an engineer I trust your research has been from more than Youtube.

Last...I enjoy a good debate and you sir have done well to provide evidence that you made the right choice. Now please go wheeling and get into a scary situation and use your new winch to save your a$$. Better yet join me in Moab next week and we can get into trouble together. :D
 
#49 ·
First...Yes I believe Warn makes a high quality product that is expensive when compared to inferior product.
See, there's that "if it's not a Warn" it's inferior.

...Second...I have stated several times that all winches fail. Even Warn. The very nice thing about Warn is that they have parts available to repair them. Engo is actually making a big splash and does make the best import winch.
Doesn't Qtech have parts available too? Don't they have the same warranty as Warn?

Third...As an engineer I trust your research has been from more than Youtube.
YouTube is merely corroboration. YouTube is documentation of what users are experiencing in real life. While there maybe a lot of useless information on YouTube, people that post what is actually happening to them is real-world.

Last...I enjoy a good debate and you sir have done well to provide evidence that you made the right choice.
Actually I have not provided any evidence that I made the right choice. Nor have I provided any evidence that I made the wrong choice. I've provided very little evidence of anything. The vids I posted, as I said in my previous post, don't really mean a thing because they are incomplete and statistically insignificant. they were merely to make the point we see the same failures in Warn that are used to condemn other brands.

...Better yet join me in Moab next week and we can get into trouble together. :D
Don't I wish I could - I'd consider that a real privilege! Have a great time, be safe....well, don't get hurt....if you were going to be safe you wouldn't be going to Moab :D.

And, guys, I'm not down on Warn winches at all - I'm very pleased with my Zeon, but that doesn't mean it isn't more winch or more cost, or both than I need. And that doesn't put Warn down in any way. No more than me buying a Jeep puts down a Range Rover.
 
#50 ·
1.800.543.9276 call this number and see what happens. Now call this number and see what happens 1-800-745-2348.

I do think the jeep was the wrong choice and a rover might have been better. :) as this thread has clearly shown that the Rover is a better choice vs the jeep for a multitude of reasons.
 
#51 ·
1.800.543.9276 call this number and see what happens. Now call this number and see what happens 1-800-745-2348.
I've called both of those numbers when I was debating which winch to get. I don't remember a problem getting through to a person with either number. It was actually Quadratec CS that kinda steered me away from the Q10000C because of the 50' cable, but I don't think that would be a problem for me. If I needed to winch further than 40' (aobut 9' spooled, ten wraps) I'd capture the progress and reset the winch.

...I do think the jeep was the wrong choice and a rover might have been better. :) as this thread has clearly shown that the Rover is a better choice vs the jeep for a multitude of reasons.
Oh yeah??? Well I think this thread proves a Polaris Ranger would be better!!!:happyyes:
 
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