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Strengthening front D30 axel

7K views 52 replies 17 participants last post by  RuDawg7890 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
O.K., so I have lifted my jeep with larger tires and want to strengthen my front axle first and for most. Not sure what all ill need for the C-Gussets kit. Can someone help me with all ill need and a good option to choose from?

I also want to upgrade my gears to 4.88 gears but not sure what all ill need for this job. Can someone also help me with what ill need to complete job for gear swap for the front and rear?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
You should receive more response in this Forum.
 
#5 ·
While you can certainly strengthen the axle with an Artec kit, your biggest issue is the weak point of the D30. It's the small ring and pinion gear. And it gets worse when you gear down (higher ratio). It can be done, but is a known point of failure. Consider 4.56... Still stressful, but slightly better.
 
#6 ·
Gear Gear shaper Auto part Hardware accessory Differential


^^^Yep, the weak Link Dana 30 to the right.
 
#14 ·
So at the end of the day YOU have to decide whether you really want to spend all this money on the D30 or just swap in a Dana Spicer UD44 that will already have the gears you want in it and a locker.
When you have to pay for all the labor and parts to build a D30 it is cheaper just to buy a better D44 axle to swap in.
 
#17 ·
@RPITUP, Obviously he/she doesn't want to do the work, or can't, so by the time you add labor to do everything, it may be financially more prudent to buy upgraded axle.

However in some cases(like mine) where I was able to do the work, or have friends help for beer and pizzas, I only ended up with about $1500 in my D30(Eaton E-locker, full Artec armor, Yukon gears, and new ball joints). Would have loved to upgrade to a full on 44, but just wasn't in the budget.

Don't want to make it a huge debate but in a some cases, I believe it is perfectly acceptable to mod the D30.

i dont plan on off-raod much maybe once every few months. live in houston and work alot. C-gussets, gears, ball and U joints i what i plan on upgrading. wanted to go gears and C's first. not gonna buy a new D44 when this axle is great and nothing wrong with it. strengthen it up and it will be just fine.
 
#16 ·
@RPITUP, Obviously he/she doesn't want to do the work, or can't, so by the time you add labor to do everything, it may be financially more prudent to buy upgraded axle.

However in some cases(like mine) where I was able to do the work, or have friends help for beer and pizzas, I only ended up with about $1500 in my D30(Eaton E-locker, full Artec armor, Yukon gears, and new ball joints). Would have loved to upgrade to a full on 44, but just wasn't in the budget.

Don't want to make it a huge debate but in a some cases, I believe it is perfectly acceptable to mod the D30.
 
#18 ·
If you are going to have C-gussets welded on, suggest you replace the ball joints at the same time. I had C-gussets and an external sleeve installed at the same time and the axle was disassembled to removal of the knuckles to do this. It will save you some labor ($) to do the ball joints at the same time. If you are using original ball joints with the plastic cup sleeve, chances are they don't survive the heat from the welding.

As a price reference point, I had the welding done by the dealer and I paid $680 for an RSE external sleeve and upper C-guasets. $450 in parts and $230 in labor. Factory ball joints were replaced under warranty. A Spicer D44 with elocker but no harness is about $3k before install (reuses brakes, unit bearings, knuckles off d30 axle). If I was paying for the ball joints (not covered under warranty) I would have sprung for a better replacement ball joint, possibly the rebuildable ones from Dynatrac.
 
#20 ·
Beefier diff cover is good advice for both front and rear. It stiffens up the carrier housing, so less flex means fewer broken R&P teeth. In the back getting rid of the lip in the thin stock cover means less likely to peel back a cover on a rock. Pretty good investment for ~ $150 each axle. In addition to ARB, check out Poison Spyder and Riddler.
 
#23 ·
So if you are only an occasional wheeler why do you feel the need to strengthen the D30. You can wheel 35 with no issues stock. If you like to pound on it, a strengthened D30 is not the way to go.
Still cheaper to put in a stronger D44 then weld up a D30.
The only time a welded up D30 makes any sense is if you do all the work yourself. The labor cost to properly weld the truss and Cs is double at least the cost of parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
C Gussets are a waste of time. Buy a few cases of beer with that money, at least you will get something from it.

Do not consider gearing your axle your self. Based on your previous posts, you are 100% not the person that should even consider it.

How "larger" of tires did you put on your Dana 30? If 35" or less, and your admitted few times a year light wheeling in a relatively flat area of Houston.

Note that the cast C's really don't bend unless your doing jumps and the such. The axle tubes (the pipe sections) are what bends LONG before the cast C will ever move. But even those are not likely to bend with mild wheeling a few times a year.

My feeling is that you are trying to fix a problem that does not exist.

What Jeep year?
What tire size?
Will you be jumping, high speed dune running, rock crawling?
Is $3000 in your budget for a complete Spicer Ultimate Dana 44 front axle shipped to your door from Sara Oaks at 4WD.com? That is with allow shafts, locker, gears, nodular iron cover, Dana 44 center, 16% stronger tubes than a Rubicon Dana 44 (or Dana 30, same damn thing), larger cast Cs, all built and shipped on a pallet to your house.

You'll be $350 into gears, $150 into install kit, $100 into carrier, $500 into labor to gear it. That is $1100 into the Dana 30 to just get gears changed, maybe more depending on labor in your area. And you need to do and spend the same on your rear yet... but that is no matter if you do the 30 or buy a 44. You MUST do both, no options there. After spending that $1,100 you still have a Dana 30 with weak brackets, tubes, gears and center casting. The Spicer Ultimate 44 is over double the cash outlay, but it is an overall very economical and easy way to get into a geared and factory built Dana 44 with all of the desired upgrades already done. It is a great value for a mild wheeler on 35" tires or less.
 
#26 ·
C Gussets are a waste of time. Buy a few cases of beer with that money, at least you will get something from it.

You'll be $350 into gears, $150 into install kit, $100 into carrier, $500 into labor to gear it. That is $1100 into the Dana 30 to just get gears changed, maybe more depending on labor in your area. And you need to do and spend the same on your rear yet... but that is no matter if you do the 30 or buy a 44. You MUST do both, no options there. After spending that $1,100 you still have a Dana 30 with weak brackets, tubes, gears and center casting. The Spicer Ultimate 44 is over double the cash outlay, but it is an overall very economical and easy way to get into a geared and factory built Dana 44 with all of the desired upgrades already done. It is a great value for a mild wheeler on 35" tires or less.
I agree with the C-Gusset assessment. The only time all this welding work makes any sense is when it's a DIY, otherwise the cost just doesn't add up compared to buying a new axle housing.

I was also able to sell my old D30 for $1,000 to a guy with a bent tube. That makes your numbers even more cost effective. I think I got lucky on that deal, and I would not expect that much from a used D30.

A stock D30 with 35s is a ticking time bomb for anything but mall work and mild trails. Another approach is just to run it until it implodes and then upgrade.
 
#25 ·
If you stay with D30 I would also recommend NOT upgrading the axle shafts and U joints. If something breaks the steering knuckle U-joint is the cheapest repair, so I would want to keep that the weakest link. If you upgrade to alloy shafts and a stronger U joint, the weak link would be the R&P on the carrier - 6 hours labor plus parts to fix. You should be fine with stock axle shafts/U joints and 35s off-road as long as you don't go nuts with the skinny pedal. I have friends who wheel 35s on stock D30s with (I think) 3.21 gearing at Rausch Creek (PA) with no problems on the greens and blues (other than the occasional flat).
 
#27 ·
like i mentioned before i will do little off-roading. it is my daily driver to and from work mainly. weekend fishing trips to the beach and lite trails around my fathers land.

i am currently on a 3.5 x-factor lift with 37s. the reason i want to strengthen then axle before something DOES break. i have a friend with a shop who will be doing the welding of the Cs. i have worked on several cars including my subaru and lexus but i have never done gears before. plans were having shop install gears. not looking to purchase a new d44 for what i use my jeep for. i do not hard core off-road here in houston.
 
#28 ·
Your C's can not break. Nor will they bend unless your a total moron and jump your shit to the point of destroying the entire axle catastrophically. People that talk about the Cs bending are just repeating bad information, it doesn't happen. The pipe bends, that is what will bend when you jump it. So there is no need to ever talk about C gussets again, because now you know the truth and your not repeating bogus info.

The ARTEC full armor truss kit uses the C gussets as a place to brace or wedge into for the tube truss and then again wedges/braces into the center casting. You lock the C to the pipe and spring mount with a segment of truss, the other side of the spring mount locks to the center casting through an additional segment of truss. In the end, the axle truss by Artec tries it's best to lock in as it spans the assembly. It's a far cry better than nothing, but does not address the center casting flex that allows the ring gear to push off of the pinion gear under heavy load. This is where the aftermarket axles with beefier castings make a Dana 44 gear set live happily behind 37" tires where a factory housing will not always live so happily.

You'll find that there are many instances of factory Dana 44 gear failures with 35 and 37 inch tires. I challenge you to find an instance of Dana 44 gear failure on a ProRock 44 or similar aftermarket HD axle assembly with 37" tires. You'll have to work really hard to find one, if there is one. I discount anything such as extreme abuse like jumping, rock bouncing or crashing.
 
#34 ·
How to piss money down a drain:

Weld on C Gussets
Put sleeves into a stock housing
Pay for a hooker with a VD
Get a divorce... again.

If you want to do something that actually stands a chance of adding structural reliability, truss the axle and add Rare Parts ball joints. Then all you have left that is crap-tastic is the ring/pinion (Be easy, don't bounce it and don't bind the U-Joints) and then the unit bearings... and they aren't horrible of you use OEM or Timken bearings.
 
#36 ·
How to piss money down a drain:

Get a divorce... again.
I can confirm! I could probably buy and fully build at least 2 or 3 jeeps for the money I've lost in 2 marriages/divorces.

Friend of mine ran heavy 35" MTZs on Black Rock steelies on a D30 for quite a while, even in the rocks. Until recently. He was running 4.56 with a lunch box locker up front. In the rocks, icy/snow covered rocks, going up and over, slid, came down hard with everything turning...bye bye differential!!
Now he's running a G2 44 with 4.56's and Auburn Ected lockers front a rear on 37's with beadlocks.
 
#38 ·
It's funny how you can read so many posts about never run anything over 33s on a Dana 30, you need to sleeve and gusset a Dana 30/oem 44, a Dana 30 is a ticking time bomb, oh you can bend the c's going over pot holes, sleeving doesn't do anything, c's are a waste of time and money, get synergy ball joints, my synergy ball joints went out in 10k miles, blah blah blah...

This $#it can get real confusing after awhile lol. You never know what to believe..
 
#46 ·
As a friend of mine says "everything has a limited number of horsepower hours". No matter how big, how reinforced it is - it can break.

But I would much rather wheel with the guy who trusses his D30 than the one who doesn't. Shows they took responsibility to try to not be "that guy" getting dragged off the trail in chains and ratchets. At least if the guy with the trussed 30 grenades, there have to be some very awesome pictures to go along with the story what they did to grenade a trussed tube.
 
#47 ·
The Dana 30/44 C's typically do not bend on the JK, the tube bends.
The Dana 30/44 gears in OEM housings are known and documented break... on the 30 because the gears are just too small for 35" and larger tires, let alone the center casting deflection. On the 44 the gears are actually pretty strong if placed into a strong housing, but in a factory Rubi housing the D44 gears break do to a weak axle center section that allows for deflection and causes gear failure.

A Dana 44 in a ProRock (or similar) housing typically does not break at 37" tires or less. Go out searching and asking around for front D44 gear set that broke in an aftermarket housing (Teraflex/ProRock/Rock Jock) with 37" tires or less. If there are more than 2 or 3 known cases on the planet earth I will be shocked. Do the same with front Dana 44 gears in a factory Rubicon housing and you'll find scores of gear failures.

So, what to do with your Dana 30/44 front axle? Truss it to prevent tube bends, use OEM shafts that will snap before the gears. Save money to upgrade to an aftermarket housing or a Ford Superduty axle. Moving from a Dana 30 to a Rubicon 44 is a pretty huge waste of money, it has the same shitty everything outside of the gear set. So you spend half the money of an aftermarket axle upgrade, and gain nearly nothing.

If you insist on keeping the Dana 30 gear set and want to bolster it as much as possible, you have but one logical choice. Tera30 housing by Teraflex. Now your in a beefy housing with large tubes that will not bend, massive center casting that will not deflect, go ahead and put your Ten Factory (or similar) alloy shafts in there because now your Dana 30 is going to hold it's shape and way outlast a factory housed Dana 30. But know at the end of the day, it is still a smaller gear set, and not going to take the abuse of an aftermarket 44 and by golly.... no where near an aftermarket Dana 60.

C's do not bend, gussets are placebo.
People blame C's when the tubes bend.
Sleeves inside the tubes are pointless placebo.
You need the OD of the tube to get larger for any significant gains.
A truss does add structural strength to the tubes.
A truss does in fact simulate the effect of larger OD tubes.
Your OEM center casting is trying to kill your gears. You can not fix this unless you buy a housing.


Dana 30 / Dana 44 FRONT Axle Tube torsional and stiffness comparison. Stiffness/Bending Area moment of inertia = Determining mechanical property used to predict a members deflection and bending stress in a beam. Equals Pi(D4-d4)/64 for hollow round shaft. Torsional defection (twisting) Polar moment of inertia = A members ability to resist torsion. Equals Pi(D4-d4)/32 for hollow round shaft. BASELINE Spicer Currie Spicer Rear Spicer Front Factory housing ProRock 44 ProRock 44 HD Tera 44 Tera 44 HD Core 44 Ultimate 44 RockJock 44 Ultimate 60 Ultimate 60 OD 2.75 3 3 3.25 3.25 3 2.75 3 3.5 3.5 ID 2.25 2.5 2 2.75 2.25 2.375 2.125 2.25 2.72 2.76 Wall T 0.25 0.25 0.5 0.25 0.5 0.3125 0.3125 0.375 0.39 0.37 Pi 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 3.14159 31.5625 41.9375 65 54.375 85.9375 49.18335 36.80054 55.37109 95.32618 92.03467 99.15643 131.7504 204.2034 170.824 269.9804 154.5139 115.6122 173.9533 299.4758 289.1352 Bending 1.549319 2.0586 3.190677 2.669124 4.218444 2.41428 1.806441 2.71802 4.679309 4.517737 Torsional 3.098639 4.117201 6.381355 5.338249 8.436887 4.82856 3.612881 5.43604 9.358618 9.035475 This is a crude comparator used only to calculate the torsional and bending increase in strength compared to the stock FRONT D30/D44 axle tube. The various tube diameter and thickness can be easily calculated, as you see. But, the 500 lb gorilla in the room is the center casting. This also deflects under load causing changes to the ring/pinion association that absolutely can and will allow or resist gear damage under various load conditions. So this calculator is not intended to fully quantify each manufacturers axle housing as an entire unit, as calculating the center casting would take MUCH more than an excell spreadsheet ;-) Percent increased Over Stock 1 1.328713 2.059406 1.722772 2.722772 1.558284 1.165958 1.754332 3.020235 2.91595 axle BASELINE 32.87% 105.94% 72.28% 172.28% 55.83% 16.60% 75.43% 202.02% 191.59%
 
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