Water in Crankcase - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 04-23-2014, 12:35 PM   #1
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
Water in Crankcase

Hey guys, I have a 3.6/6spd JK with 6K miles on it. Dealer is claiming that due to driving in water, the seal at the crank pulley was able to draw water into the crankcase and cause damage. The intake did not have a drop of water in it, and the air filter was completely dry, I pulled the dip stick and the oil did not appear milky. Have you every heard of water being ingested into these motors through the crankcase?

The Jeep did see some water, but never over the height of the tires or bumper. They're claiming that the seal is intended to keep oil in, not keep water out, and because of that Chrysler is not willing to cover under warranty. It seems to me that water ingestion in depths less than what Jeep.com claims the vehicle is rated for (30"), and not related to intake/hydrolock would indicate improper seal and thus a manufacturer defect. I can't seem to find any other instances of this occurring through my searches. Anyone here ever heard of this, or had luck appealing a denied warranty claim like this?

I should clarify that the claim has not been made with Chrysler yet, but the dealer is assuming they will not cover, and refuses to proceed with investigating until someone commits to paying the bill.

Initially the Jeep stalled and threw several error codes, I let it dry out and disconnected the battery to clear codes. Now the only codes are for the Cam Position Sensors (2 codes, A, and B), it's misfiring and idling pretty rough but drives fine once it's moving, it does stall and the low oil pressure light comes on at idle. It sounds rough though with a high pitch whine relative to rpms, and rattles like a semi.

Any input is appreciated... thanks!

Thanks!

aearles is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 12:46 PM   #2
kik
Jeeper
 
kik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,623
Images: 1
Regardless of what you may or may not have done, if the dealer is indicating that there could be a problem and won't proceed you now have to contact Chrysler customer care. They have to approve any repairs at this point.

kik is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 01:01 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
Strokerswild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,292
Generally speaking, there is usually slight positive pressure inside an engine crankcase (not manifold vacuum) that is in operation. Pop off a PCV/breather hose on any running engine, and you'll see for yourself.

Drag racers often attach a vacuum pump to valve covers to generate crankcase vacuum to improve ring seal and get any blow-by out more efficiently than the engine can on its own.

No water should be able to make it past a crank seal if it's working properly. I would bet that any water made it inside via another route, like the intake tract.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
'98 TJ SE - '99 TJ Sahara - '12 JK Arctic
'13 JK Sahara...too many other toys...

I Jeep, therefore I am.
Strokerswild is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 01:02 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 830
sounds like a line of BS.. if the SEAL at the crank pulley is doing it's job... er.. SEALing, then no water would get in.

Per above post, contact Chrysler.
mhicanders is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 01:19 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
Old Dogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Phoenix, Rattlesnake Country
Posts: 3,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by aearles View Post
Hey guys, I have a 3.6/6spd JK with 6K miles on it. Dealer is claiming that due to driving in water, the seal at the crank pulley was able to draw water into the crankcase and cause damage. The intake did not have a drop of water in it, and the air filter was completely dry, I pulled the dip stick and the oil did not appear milky. Have you every heard of water being ingested into these motors through the crankcase?


I should clarify that the claim has not been made with Chrysler yet, but the dealer is assuming they will not cover, and refuses to proceed with investigating until someone commits to paying the bill.

Any input is appreciated... thanks!

Thanks!
to the Forum..

What I have highlighted above, just doesn't make any sense. If the Dealer is saying that water entering the crankcase has caused a failure, then the oil should have somewhat of a milky appearance! (Which you wisely checked). I would ask for a oil analysis to really quantify, how much if any water was in the oil.

As for seals. It really depends on the type of seal, and what they are saying maybe correct. If it's only a single lip seal, designed to keep fluids in, then that is it's only purpose. Some seals are double lip, designed to keep both fluid in, and eliminate something exterior, from entering.

I have a sales brochure, that states water forging, 30" safely. So at least you have that hold card........
__________________
Wranglers are mean machines....

1974 CJ5, 2003 TJ, 2013 2 door Rubicon

Remember in life, the only dumb question, is the question not asked!
Old Dogger is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 07:57 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 15
I personally know of another 3.6/6spd that had the same thing happen. Air filter dry, no visible sign of entry. Water in crankcase and oil filter packed with mud. Jeep did not warranty.

Do you have exhaust spacers? Did the engine stall while in the water?
Lokedjk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 09:31 PM   #7
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
I do not have spacers, exhaust tip was submerged while climbing out of the hole but at that point it would have to make it way up the exhaust on an incline and clear the axle bends and loop up front plus two resonators so I don't think it was exhaust. The engine did stall, and I made the ignorant mistake of startng it back up, but it stalled with no driver input at idle so I assume at that point the damage had already been done.

Do you know what his repair consisted of? Initially they said it needed a new motor but then said they wouldn't know til they get into it, could just be sensors and bearings.
aearles is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 10:06 PM   #8
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by aearles View Post
Hey guys, I have a 3.6/6spd JK with 6K miles on it. Dealer is claiming that due to driving in water, the seal at the crank pulley was able to draw water into the crankcase and cause damage. The intake did not have a drop of water in it, and the air filter was completely dry, I pulled the dip stick and the oil did not appear milky. Have you every heard of water being ingested into these motors through the crankcase?

The Jeep did see some water, but never over the height of the tires or bumper. They're claiming that the seal is intended to keep oil in, not keep water out, and because of that Chrysler is not willing to cover under warranty. It seems to me that water ingestion in depths less than what Jeep.com claims the vehicle is rated for (30"), and not related to intake/hydrolock would indicate improper seal and thus a manufacturer defect. I can't seem to find any other instances of this occurring through my searches. Anyone here ever heard of this, or had luck appealing a denied warranty claim like this?

I should clarify that the claim has not been made with Chrysler yet, but the dealer is assuming they will not cover, and refuses to proceed with investigating until someone commits to paying the bill.

Initially the Jeep stalled and threw several error codes, I let it dry out and disconnected the battery to clear codes. Now the only codes are for the Cam Position Sensors (2 codes, A, and B), it's misfiring and idling pretty rough but drives fine once it's moving, it does stall and the low oil pressure light comes on at idle. It sounds rough though with a high pitch whine relative to rpms, and rattles like a semi.

Any input is appreciated... thanks!

Thanks!
Here is the best advice you are going to get...lawyer up, and start arbitration proceedings. The wrangler can ford 30" of water. As far as the engine is concerned, there should only be ONE entry point for water...the intake.

Bring this photo and video to the arbitration hearing, and ask them to explain how they advertise the vehicle to be able to ford water, but deny warranty claims when a customers goes and does it responsibly.



Here is the video...both the photo and the video are official Jeep advertisements.



Ask your lawyer to file consumer fraud damages (triple damage in most states), false advertising, and any other damage he can think of. Guaranteed they will fold and fix your jeep. Just taking the case to arbitration will cost them $25K before you even argue the case.

Don't take it laying down.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 10:08 PM   #9
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by kik View Post
Regardless of what you may or may not have done, if the dealer is indicating that there could be a problem and won't proceed you now have to contact Chrysler customer care. They have to approve any repairs at this point.
Waste of time. Chrysler listens to dealers. If the dealer isn't fixing it under warranty, Chrysler will back them up. You can either get bullied, or be the bully.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2014, 10:10 PM   #10
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by aearles View Post
I do not have spacers, exhaust tip was submerged while climbing out of the hole but at that point it would have to make it way up the exhaust on an incline and clear the axle bends and loop up front plus two resonators so I don't think it was exhaust. The engine did stall, and I made the ignorant mistake of startng it back up, but it stalled with no driver input at idle so I assume at that point the damage had already been done.

Do you know what his repair consisted of? Initially they said it needed a new motor but then said they wouldn't know til they get into it, could just be sensors and bearings.
Water will never make it into your motor through the exhaust if the engine is running. Even if you stalled, assuming only for a few minutes, the water would need some decent pressure to enter the exhaust, climb up, fill the muffler (continuing to keep pressure on), flow down the exhaust, UP into the loops, UP again into the cats, Up again into the exhaust manifold, and finally into your engine....if you are a Seinfeld fan...."That my friend, is one magic loogie."
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 06:09 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by aearles View Post
Hey guys, I have a 3.6/6spd JK with 6K miles on it. Dealer is claiming that due to driving in water, the seal at the crank pulley was able to draw water into the crankcase and cause damage. The intake did not have a drop of water in it, and the air filter was completely dry, I pulled the dip stick and the oil did not appear milky. Have you every heard of water being ingested into these motors through the crankcase?

The Jeep did see some water, but never over the height of the tires or bumper. They're claiming that the seal is intended to keep oil in, not keep water out, and because of that Chrysler is not willing to cover under warranty. It seems to me that water ingestion in depths less than what Jeep.com claims the vehicle is rated for (30"), and not related to intake/hydrolock would indicate improper seal and thus a manufacturer defect. I can't seem to find any other instances of this occurring through my searches. Anyone here ever heard of this, or had luck appealing a denied warranty claim like this?

I should clarify that the claim has not been made with Chrysler yet, but the dealer is assuming they will not cover, and refuses to proceed with investigating until someone commits to paying the bill.

Initially the Jeep stalled and threw several error codes, I let it dry out and disconnected the battery to clear codes. Now the only codes are for the Cam Position Sensors (2 codes, A, and B), it's misfiring and idling pretty rough but drives fine once it's moving, it does stall and the low oil pressure light comes on at idle. It sounds rough though with a high pitch whine relative to rpms, and rattles like a semi.

Any input is appreciated... thanks!

Thanks!
How did they determine water mixed in with the oil? You said it wasn't milky did someone send the oil out for analysis to see how much water was in the oil? The seal they're referring to works two ways, it stops oil from leaking out, and water from coming in. It might be time for a lawyer as already mentioned. See where you get with Chrysler care.

A little OT but this is a perfect example of what happens when the dealer refuses to cover a warranty repair. The same applies to engine mods [which isn't the case here]. If the dealer refuses to perform work because of a mod, or driving through water in this case the customer is left holding the bag. In this case the dealer doesn't have to prove that driving through water caused the problem, the customer has to prove it didn't. Now if Chrysler care says no cigar to paying for the repair, and takes the dealers side, the customer will be out either attorney fees, repair fees, or both. That could be very costly.

Good luck with Chrysler care, don't be surprised if you have to pay up for a lawyer.

OP if you still have the vehicle in your posession I would get an oil sample and send it to a lab for analysis. Discuss with the lab what happened, and how they want you to draw an oil sample.
demarpaint is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 07:54 AM   #12
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Blackstone Labs

Use them for your oil analysis. Cheap and great evidence to make the dealer look like an idiot during arbitration. Also, if you have lab results proving there is NO water in the oil, the dealer is literally caught lying, which is consumer fraud. Consumer fraud pays 300% of damages PLUS attorney fees.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 08:01 AM   #13
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Blackstone Labs

Use them for your oil analysis. Cheap and great evidence to make the dealer look like an idiot during arbitration. Also, if you have lab results proving there is NO water in the oil, the dealer is literally caught lying, which is consumer fraud. Consumer fraud pays 300% of damages PLUS attorney fees.
Exactly why I suggested taking a sample. Hopefully the lab makes the dealer look stupid, and score one for the little guy. With an oil sample showing no water in the oil will probably force the dealers hand, if not it might sway Chrysler into paying the dealer for the repair. OTOH if there is excessive water in the oil, the OP will have a lot of explaining to do and might be SOL. I'd have it done if the oil in question is still in the sump.

OP keep us posted.
demarpaint is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 08:33 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 247
You can also have the dealer drain the oil with you there into a clean container. Seal it and have them sign the seal. Then let it sit for 1 week and the oil and water will separate. Go to another dealer! The drive sounds worth it to me.
back in the game is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 09:36 AM   #15
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,313
The more I think about this the more I claim BS. Getting water through the crank pulley would mean you'd be leaking so much oil it would be spraying everywhere and you'd be constantly adding oil to the engine. Find another dealer.
demarpaint is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 12:12 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
Mark Theriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 67
Agree, you will have positive internal pressure at that seal - unless something is wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Strokerswild View Post
Generally speaking, there is usually slight positive pressure inside an engine crankcase (not manifold vacuum) that is in operation. Pop off a PCV/breather hose on any running engine, and you'll see for yourself.

Drag racers often attach a vacuum pump to valve covers to generate crankcase vacuum to improve ring seal and get any blow-by out more efficiently than the engine can on its own.

No water should be able to make it past a crank seal if it's working properly. I would bet that any water made it inside via another route, like the intake tract.
__________________
2013 JK Sport S
------------
2014 2D Rubicon
Mark Theriot is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 12:57 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
gorillahydrographics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Waste of time. Chrysler listens to dealers. If the dealer isn't fixing it under warranty, Chrysler will back them up. You can either get bullied, or be the bully.
I dont know if thats completly accurate.

The dealer is reimbursed for warranty work by chrysler. In other words the techs time is covered by Chrysler including parts. The dealer actually wins because they made money on the labor.

The dealer will submit the the findings of their inspections and submits it to chrysler.

Chrysler then approves or denies the repair. the dealer has no reason not to al least submit the claim....they make out on the deal.
__________________
2013 Billet Silver 2 Door Sport -TeraFlex Elite Long Arm with Rock Krawler 3.5" Triple Rate Coils- Yukon 5.13 Gears - Detroit Locker (front)Eaton "E" Locker(rear) - TeraFlex Flip Kit/high Steer - Currie HD Tie Rod - Smittybilt XRC Front MoD Bumper w/stinger and Crawler Conceptz Skinny Rear Bumper - XRC 9000LB winch - XRC Flat Fenders - Cooper Discovery MT 35x12.50x17 - Custom Urban Camo Grill -
gorillahydrographics is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 01:06 PM   #18
Jeeper
 
Blastek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,254
IMHO, this is an insurance issue, not a warranty issue. You got water into the engine and by starting it, you probably did some additional damage.

You can drive through a 2 inch puddle and hydrolock if you hit it right.

Good luck.
__________________
2012 Deep Cherry Red JKU Sport S - Tickastar, 6 speed, 3.73, Dual Tops
Blastek is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 04:24 PM   #19
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
Thanks for all the advice guys. The dealer opened a case with Chrysler, and I did as well just to confirm. The Chrysler inspector will be onsite tomorrow to investigate and (I assume) make a decision.

I expect that insurance is going to take one look at the bottom of the Jeep and deny my claim, that's why I didn't even consider going that route. But really, the more I think about it, the more I get pissed that that seal let water in (assuming the dealer's assessment was correct), sure seems like a defect to me. Can insurance really be relied upon for engine damage? Let alone when there is clear evidence of off-road use.

I do not have the Jeep in my possession, I did not expect that water made it into the engine because of the dry intake, otherwise I definitely would have drained the oil. I assumed sensors on the bottom of the motor shorted or were damaged by water, and that it would be a simple fix.
aearles is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 04:37 PM   #20
kik
Jeeper
 
kik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,623
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Waste of time. Chrysler listens to dealers. If the dealer isn't fixing it under warranty, Chrysler will back them up. You can either get bullied, or be the bully.
It could turn into a waste of time, but the first step after the dealer is Chrysler customer care. In order to even file a consumer complaint there has to be a statement from Chrysler that the issue won't be covered as part of the warranty. What does bullying have to do with a consumer complaint. It's a simple consumer issue not a criminal investigation.
kik is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 04:58 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
Blastek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,254
In my opinion, the water almost certainly did not enter through that seal.

Let's take a look:
You experienced a stall when you hit water.
You tried to start it.
The engine now runs rough and is knocking (or clattering like a semi truck as you describe).
The intake appears dry.

Most likely, the water entered through the intake. That's why it stalled and that's why it's running rough now because it probably bent something when the engine attempted to compress the water in the cylinder.

It could also be that the water damaged electrical components. That would be your best case scenario, but IMO less likely than water in the intake.

If it entered into the crankcase somehow and did the damage, it would have to be a lot of water. Your oil would be milky it may throw a code, but it would still run. The water can't get up into the compression chamber from the crankcase, otherwise the oil would be able to as well. Water in the crankcase is bad, but I can't imagine that it would cause the symptoms you describe. Unless it was running for longer.

The oil seal obviously is designed to keep oil in. It's not a one-way seal (if such a thing exists). It keeps liquid out too.

I would contact your insurance and start asking questions. I've seen hydrolocks covered by insurance on this board before. I wouldn't bank on this being covered from anyone, though.
__________________
2012 Deep Cherry Red JKU Sport S - Tickastar, 6 speed, 3.73, Dual Tops
Blastek is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 07:02 PM   #22
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by aearles View Post
I do not have spacers, exhaust tip was submerged while climbing out of the hole but at that point it would have to make it way up the exhaust on an incline and clear the axle bends and loop up front plus two resonators so I don't think it was exhaust. The engine did stall, and I made the ignorant mistake of startng it back up, but it stalled with no driver input at idle so I assume at that point the damage had already been done.

Do you know what his repair consisted of? Initially they said it needed a new motor but then said they wouldn't know til they get into it, could just be sensors and bearings.
Yes, he turned it in to his insurance company and they paid to have a new motor installed.
Lokedjk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 07:20 PM   #23
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by kik View Post
It could turn into a waste of time, but the first step after the dealer is Chrysler customer care. In order to even file a consumer complaint there has to be a statement from Chrysler that the issue won't be covered as part of the warranty. What does bullying have to do with a consumer complaint. It's a simple consumer issue not a criminal investigation.
It bully's the dealer to either deal with the issue or go through litigation. When a dealer denies a warranty claim, it is implied from the customer side that chrysler (in this case) said no...since the manufacturer determines if a warranty claim is valid. If the dealer spoke for Chrysler, that's their problem. If my burger is cooked improperly, I deal with the waiter, I don't deal with the chef. The link to the manufacturer is the dealer. Customers are not supposed to deal with manufacturers directly, that's why we have dealers.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #24
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastek View Post
In my opinion, the water almost certainly did not enter through that seal.

Let's take a look:
You experienced a stall when you hit water.
You tried to start it.
The engine now runs rough and is knocking (or clattering like a semi truck as you describe).
The intake appears dry.

Most likely, the water entered through the intake. That's why it stalled and that's why it's running rough now because it probably bent something when the engine attempted to compress the water in the cylinder.

It could also be that the water damaged electrical components. That would be your best case scenario, but IMO less likely than water in the intake.

If it entered into the crankcase somehow and did the damage, it would have to be a lot of water. Your oil would be milky it may throw a code, but it would still run. The water can't get up into the compression chamber from the crankcase, otherwise the oil would be able to as well. Water in the crankcase is bad, but I can't imagine that it would cause the symptoms you describe. Unless it was running for longer.

The oil seal obviously is designed to keep oil in. It's not a one-way seal (if such a thing exists). It keeps liquid out too.

I would contact your insurance and start asking questions. I've seen hydrolocks covered by insurance on this board before. I wouldn't bank on this being covered from anyone, though.
Im willing to bet there is no water at all, and the dealer is just full of sh!t hoping that he goes away. I already had issues with my dealer on my 2012, so I know the games they play. Couple that with the dealers generally not knowing their a$$ from their elbow, and you have a winning combo. It could be a million things, the dealer just can't pinpoint the problem, hoping he knows nothing about cars, and essentially, telling him to get lost. Water causes things to break. If his jeep ingested water, he would have bent a rod, put a hole in his block, whatever, there would be damage that the dealer could say "look, here's your problem." Telling him some BS story about the crank seal let water in is telling me that they are just spewing some overly complex problem like "your flocktor valve and widget solenoid has fused with the uranium core" hoping that he is just another unsuspecting customer that will say "oh well, how much is this going to cost to get fixed." He made the right move by asking here so we can tell him that they are BSing him. I would go back to the dealer, and tell them to put the exact problem in writing, and why his warranty claim is denied so that he can bring it to his attorney and decide on what to do. Im sick and tired of dealers having no problem selling wranglers, selling modded wranglers, showing off their offroad prowess, but then deny warranty when customers come in with problems...they act like the wrangler is a honda accord or a camry...reliable as a woodburning stove....A bone stock wrangler has a heap of problems straight from the factory, and they act surprised everytime someone comes in with said problem.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 08:21 PM   #25
kik
Jeeper
 
kik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,623
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
It bully's the dealer to either deal with the issue or go through litigation. When a dealer denies a warranty claim, it is implied from the customer side that chrysler (in this case) said no...since the manufacturer determines if a warranty claim is valid. If the dealer spoke for Chrysler, that's their problem. If my burger is cooked improperly, I deal with the waiter, I don't deal with the chef. The link to the manufacturer is the dealer. Customers are not supposed to deal with manufacturers directly, that's why we have dealers.
Where are you getting this. The OP posted that he contacted Chrysler customer care and a case was opened. The dealer had also contacted Chrysler which is a good thing. Consumers can always contact customer care and there's a representative assigned to assist in hopefully resolving the issue, and a case # is assigned until the matter is either completed or there's no further action taken. We (you) are allowed to contact Chrysler through a customer care representative. That's the second phase of a complaint/dispute concerning a decision that may have been made by a dealer, which is where an initial complaint is made like you indicated. Dealer's can't be "bullied" into making decisions. It's a business decision and they want to be paid. The burger analogy doesn't work, we're not talking about McDonalds. Your last sentence is incorrect; hence Chrysler's Customer Care Center. That is how we as consumers are able to contact Chrysler. We obviously don't go to Detroit and knock on their door. There are numerous cases whereby a dealer denies a warranty claim, Chrysler further investigates the claim due to a customer complaint and they then authorize the dealer to make the repair.
kik is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 09:48 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
jadmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: missoula
Posts: 6,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by aearles View Post
Thanks for all the advice guys. The dealer opened a case with Chrysler, and I did as well just to confirm. The Chrysler inspector will be onsite tomorrow to investigate and (I assume) make a decision.

I expect that insurance is going to take one look at the bottom of the Jeep and deny my claim, that's why I didn't even consider going that route. But really, the more I think about it, the more I get pissed that that seal let water in (assuming the dealer's assessment was correct), sure seems like a defect to me. Can insurance really be relied upon for engine damage? Let alone when there is clear evidence of off-road use.

I do not have the Jeep in my possession, I did not expect that water made it into the engine because of the dry intake, otherwise I definitely would have drained the oil. I assumed sensors on the bottom of the motor shorted or were damaged by water, and that it would be a simple fix.
I would say if the bottom is all beat up then warranty may be no different then insurance as far as denying the claim.
jadmt is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 10:05 PM   #27
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by kik View Post
Where are you getting this. The OP posted that he contacted Chrysler customer care and a case was opened. The dealer had also contacted Chrysler which is a good thing. Consumers can always contact customer care and there's a representative assigned to assist in hopefully resolving the issue, and a case # is assigned until the matter is either completed or there's no further action taken. We (you) are allowed to contact Chrysler through a customer care representative. That's the second phase of a complaint/dispute concerning a decision that may have been made by a dealer, which is where an initial complaint is made like you indicated. Dealer's can't be "bullied" into making decisions. It's a business decision and they want to be paid. The burger analogy doesn't work, we're not talking about McDonalds. Your last sentence is incorrect; hence Chrysler's Customer Care Center. That is how we as consumers are able to contact Chrysler. We obviously don't go to Detroit and knock on their door. There are numerous cases whereby a dealer denies a warranty claim, Chrysler further investigates the claim due to a customer complaint and they then authorize the dealer to make the repair.
A dealer doesn't deny a warranty claim, it's not their dime, it's chrysler's dime. You are correct that people can exercise their option to try and deal with Chrysler directly, but more often than not, it is a fruitless exercise, can take a very long time, and in the meantime, you are out of a vehicle. From what the OP posted, it sounds like the dealer is jerking him around. For me personally, I don't take kindly to it, and don't waste my time appealing to the manufacturer. If I am REALLY lazy, I may try another dealer, but that's rare. There is absolutely no law mandating someone to contact the manufacturer before bringing an arbitration to a dealer. If the dealer wants to play games rather than just be honest, or they are going to win prizes...stupid games yield stupid prizes.

My point was simple...contact an attorney and discuss your options. If he wants, he can try talking to chrysler directly, to see if they will help him, but to be prepared to fight at least if necessary.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 10:08 PM   #28
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
I would say if the bottom is all beat up then warranty may be no different then insurance as far as denying the claim.
NOt quite...believe it or not, a lot of trails (ie, the rubicon) is actually classified as a county road or a forest road, which is in your insurance policy. Insurance is generally void on something like a racetrack, but many MANY trails (unless inside a park like Rousch Creek) are legal roads, and it would be insured under hazard, like hitting a truck tire on a highway.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 10:12 PM   #29
Jeeper
 
jadmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: missoula
Posts: 6,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
NOt quite...believe it or not, a lot of trails (ie, the rubicon) is actually classified as a county road or a forest road, which is in your insurance policy. Insurance is generally void on something like a racetrack, but many MANY trails (unless inside a park like Rousch Creek) are legal roads, and it would be insured under hazard, like hitting a truck tire on a highway.
what I meant is if the bottom is all beat up then warranty is more likely to deny claiming abuse then insurance is.
jadmt is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2014, 10:12 PM   #30
Race Car Dave

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by kik View Post
Where are you getting this. The OP posted that he contacted Chrysler customer care and a case was opened. The dealer had also contacted Chrysler which is a good thing. Consumers can always contact customer care and there's a representative assigned to assist in hopefully resolving the issue, and a case # is assigned until the matter is either completed or there's no further action taken. We (you) are allowed to contact Chrysler through a customer care representative. That's the second phase of a complaint/dispute concerning a decision that may have been made by a dealer, which is where an initial complaint is made like you indicated. Dealer's can't be "bullied" into making decisions. It's a business decision and they want to be paid. The burger analogy doesn't work, we're not talking about McDonalds. Your last sentence is incorrect; hence Chrysler's Customer Care Center. That is how we as consumers are able to contact Chrysler. We obviously don't go to Detroit and knock on their door. There are numerous cases whereby a dealer denies a warranty claim, Chrysler further investigates the claim due to a customer complaint and they then authorize the dealer to make the repair.
Edit, I must apologize, as I misread the OP....

Quote:
Anyone here ever heard of this, or had luck appealing a denied warranty claim like this?
It sounded to me like his claim was ALREADY denied, and it appears that this is not the case, so again, apologies, my mistake.

OP, my advice kicks in IF your claim gets denied.

NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC