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Old 07-29-2010, 07:33 PM   #1
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Exclamation 98' TJ wranger 4.0 AUTO-TRANS LEAK!

(1998 Jeep Wrangler Sport TJ, 4.0, AUTO, All options.)
Bought the jeep in 98' brand new so i know the vehicle quite well. (145,000 miles on it.)

Puddle of tranny fluid under jeep! It has been dripping a little bit for the past few months. Recently the small drip here and there escalated to a LEAK! I figured maybe the transmission pan gasket had just failed, or maybe the bolts came loose... Removed the pan, serviced the filter, new fluid, the usual. Wiped everything down and let it warm up with the skid plate off. Parked it for about 3 hours came back and there the leak was again!!! I think i pin pointed it, its 6" behind the rear of the transmission pan gasket. There is this area with a little hole in it. No its not cracked, there literally is this little factory hole!? I dont know if its coming from the hole or the small area below the hole i will have to further inspect but the huge drip is about 1" below that hole. (so im assuming its coming from the hole).

I included a picture of the picture below the jeep (3 hours of leak), and a picture of where i think it is! Is there a gasket between there? And if so what would i have to do fix it? I have pretty much every tool under the sun and the factory service manual too.

Let me know what everyone!

Thank you to everyone in advance
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:39 PM   #2
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There is an easily (well, relatively since you have to remove the transfer case to get to it) replaced rear output shaft seal that I am betting is the source of your transmission leak. The fact it is coming from where the t-case bolts to the rear of the transmission leads me to strongly suspect that particular seal. Replacing that seal is pretty straight forward and inexpensive to do. This is the seal that the transfer case input shaft seals against and keeps the ATF inside the automatic transmission from leaking out.

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Old 07-29-2010, 07:43 PM   #3
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UPDATE!!! CLEANED THE AREA with brake cleaner, DRYED IT OFF, LAID THERE FOR 10 minutes and WALLA here came the trickle from the hole. THE HOLE IS LEAKING the fluid!

I'm going to look in the factory service manual, but does anyone know what the hell that hole is for and why its leaking?!
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:47 PM   #4
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What is that hole in, the transmission or the transfer case? I installed that same transmission into my last TJ but I can't place that hole.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:48 PM   #5
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The hole is behind the transmission pan. In the transfer case i believe.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:51 PM   #6
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Is it in that spacer/housing that bolts between the transfer case and transmission? If so, that's another indication the transmission's output shaft seal is what is leaking.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:54 PM   #7
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I have the very same problem right now with my 98 it has 137k miles on it...no leaks what so ever and walk out about a week ago and probably half a quart of transmission fluid under jeep. Did the same with mine and it is coming from the same hole you have pictured. Im yet to find out the problem. If you find what will fix this please let me know and I will do the same. Going to talk with a transmission pro tomorow maybe he will have a clue. If anyone out there can help. please let me know. Thanks
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Is it in that spacer/housing that bolts between the transfer case and transmission? If so, that's another indication the transmission's output shaft seal is what is leaking.
the hole is on the transmission right in front of the transfer case. In his pic you can see where the transfer case is and the bolts that mount the transfer case to the trans
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:59 PM   #9
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I'm familiar with that transmission but I sure can't place that hole. I would go out to my '97 that I installed one into but it was stolen a few months ago.

There is an adapter housing, maybe 6" long or so, between the transmission and t-case. Is the hole in that housing or is the hole in the transmission itself? Some assume that adapter housing is part of the transmission but it really isn't.

A better photo with more light (use a flash?) of the area the hole is in would help. from at least a foot away and from a slightly different angle than straight up.

I am still thinking leaky output shaft seal though.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I'm familiar with that transmission but I sure can't place that hole. I would go out to my '97 that I installed one into but it was stolen a few months ago.

There is an adapter housing, maybe 6" long or so, between the transmission and t-case. Is the hole in that housing or is the hole in the transmission itself? Some assume that adapter housing is part of the transmission but it really isn't.

A better photo with more light (use a flash?) of the area the hole is in would help. from at least a foot away and from a slightly different angle than straight up.

I am still thinking leaky output shaft seal though.
ok looked at it again and I think I may have assumed.. it apears to be on the adapter between the trans and transfer case. The adapter actually is above the back of the trans pan and was thinking trans would run past the pan..my fault for being an old chevy guy and used to to many 350 turbos...so you think its the output shaft???
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:17 PM   #11
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...so you think its the output shaft???
The output shaft seal seems to be the most likely source of that kind of leak. A better well-lit pic showing where that hole is would help to confirm that thought.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:24 PM   #12
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Hope the video helps.

On better observation the hole is located in the 6"-8" adapter BETWEEN the transfer case and transmission. I shot the video in 2 seconds off my cell phone, sorry for the pauses and confusion, i winged it lol.

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Old 07-29-2010, 08:33 PM   #13
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Hah worst video of the year. But at least it confirmed that the hole is in the adapter between the tranny and transfer case. To me, that confirms it is (HIGHLY likely anyway) the transmission's output shaft seal that is leaking. No worries, that seal is very inexpensive and actually quite easy to replace... at least it is once you get the transfer case unbolted from it. The only special tool you'll need is an E-10 reverse torx bit for the top bolts to get the t-case unbolted from the transmission.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:44 PM   #14
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I bet they installed that hole there for that matter alone. Without that hole you would never know if it was leaking or not right? It would just fill the adapter up and your transmission would burn up.

In order for me to fix this, do i have to pull the transmission or does it stay in and i just pull down the transfer case? What else needs to come out as well? Thank goodness i have the factory manual but if you can tell me a rough idea of what needs to come out that will start me on the right track!
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:46 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 98wranglertj View Post
ok looked at it again and I think I may have assumed.. it apears to be on the adapter between the trans and transfer case. The adapter actually is above the back of the trans pan and was thinking trans would run past the pan..my fault for being an old chevy guy and used to to many 350 turbos...so you think its the output shaft???
How bad is yours leaking? I left a plate under the drip overnight. Well see how much it leaks by morning.

I will have to fix mine asap, when do you plan on digging into yours?
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:06 AM   #16
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How bad is yours leaking? I left a plate under the drip overnight. Well see how much it leaks by morning.

I will have to fix mine asap, when do you plan on digging into yours?
I would say it has leaked about a half to a quart..I spoke with a transmission expert yesterday and Jerry is correct on it being the output shaft seal. He also said the hole is a weeping hole for condensation and water to come out when its been off road in the water and also to let you and me know we have an issue...I havent drove mine since I noticed the leak, was afraid at time. Not sure if I am going to tackle this job or not. Gonna look for some type of info on way to go about it..I aguess drop drive shaft and remove transfercase and adapter and it should be right there. But need info on just how to replace that seal....let me know what you find and ill do the same. Thanks
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:52 PM   #17
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Well in 3 days it has leaked about 1/2-1 quart in a trash can lid.. NOT GOOD

I will look into it and see what the service manual says. I will have to tackle this soon!
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:07 PM   #18
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me too. i havent been driving mine. but this 100 degree weather is keeping me out from under it right now
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:33 AM   #19
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I'm renovating my shop a bit and my air compressor is not currently hooked up. As soon as i run the copper lines and sweat the joints ill have air and i can dig into it! Maybe ill make a better how to video haha
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:47 PM   #20
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Well i yanked the transfer case out and sure enough! Rear tranny output seal leaks! I wouldn't even call it a leak more like "Gushing". The transmission has to be completely empty at this point since its lost so much dang fluid.

Never the less i called the local jeep parts place, 29 dollars for the front transfer case seal, and 16 dollars for the rear tranny output seal. They suggest that you change both of them at the same time. I guess he had 15 of each in stock and he said they change them out all the time!

In a nut shell i dropped the skid plate off. Disconnected all electronic sensor attached to transfer case (3 i believe?), pulled out vent hose at top of transfer case, disconnected shifter (1 bolt), unbolted the front and rear drive lines (4 bolts each, make sure you mark where everything goes with a scratcher, thats what the manual said, not sure if it matters but i did). Then i put a jack underneath of it lowered it down and slid it rear word and the thing just comes right off. having a helping hand i would say is really nice. you could probably take it off yourself, but putting it back in might just be impossible? but i havent gotten that far i will keep you updated.



Check the video, one hell of a leak huh?

2 pictures also attached.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:50 PM   #21
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Hah worst video of the year. But at least it confirmed that the hole is in the adapter between the tranny and transfer case. To me, that confirms it is (HIGHLY likely anyway) the transmission's output shaft seal that is leaking. No worries, that seal is very inexpensive and actually quite easy to replace... at least it is once you get the transfer case unbolted from it. The only special tool you'll need is an E-10 reverse torx bit for the top bolts to get the t-case unbolted from the transmission.
Weird i didnt see any Torx sockets, i used 14mm short and long sockets & open/box end wrenches.

Any special tools needed to replace the seal?
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:02 AM   #22
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Well i installed both the seals, and put everything back together! No more leak!!! A 2nd person is almost mandatory unless your really patient and handy with a floor jack!

I used ATF +4 in the TQ converter 1.25 quarts, and the tranny took about 5 quarts (it was really bone dry.)

it specifically says do NOT use dexron in tranny. It will cause chatter.

Hopefully you fix yours as well!

Thanks to everyone that helped me!
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:33 PM   #23
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thanks for all this info...gonna be a huge help for me...the weather here has been 100+ so havent started on mine, supposed to cool off next week so hope to get started.. THANKS for aLL THE DETAIL in the how to that is gonna be a HUGE help to me when i start...THANKS AGAIN
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:54 AM   #24
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You are very much welcome!

Skid pan comes off, 6 big bolts, 4 nuts will still hold the skid pan to the bottom of the tranny. remove those. Detach shifter cable bracket from TQ converter. detach breather tube (top of transfer case), remove sensors (2 sensors),use a scratch tool to mark one big line on each axel, this will make sure everything is inline when reinstalling and make your life a hell of a lot easier, remove the 4 small bolts on each of the axels and let them hang down. remove the remaining 4 or 5 bolts that bolt the TQ converter to the transmission. Support transfer case with jack, slide transfer case towards the rear and it will slide right out.

Use pry tool to remove seal from rear of tranny. Use a flat cylindrical object to bang new seal gently in.

TQ converter seal- You will need to unbolt the 4-5 bolts from the front of the TQ converter. This will give you the seal holder. Use a small pry tool to break the silicone gasket seal. Scrape seal clean and clean both surfaces. Use a punch to punch out the old seal. Install new seal in aluminum seal holder. Now use high temp silicon seal and lay a 1/8" bead around the entire vicinity of the mating face, surround each bolt hole. DO NOT COVER UP THE HOLE LOCATED IN THE TOP OF THE SEAL, go above that hole. that hole is the return for the fluid. If you seal that hole off you will destroy the TQ converter. install all bolts and tq to 20 inch lb's. Let dry for 24 hours before adding fluid. You can however install it in the mean time. Drag under jeep, put it back up on the jack. jack it back up into place. You must slide it into the splined output shaft. make sure all your markings you previously marked are in line, before sliding it into the spline! They MUST line up so you can reattach the axles easily. Slide TQ converter into the splined tranny and install nuts. reattach all sensors and hose. Reattach the shifter. re attach the axles.

If you did NOT line up the lines on the axles don't worry, your not in that much trouble. The front axles out of the TQ converter should spin freely and shouldn't be locked up. Spin it until it lines up and bolt it up.

The rear shaft will not spin, jack the rear of the jeep up using the jack and use 2 jack stands. Spin the tire until you can line up the axle bolts again and bolt it up.

Leave the pan off and wait 24 hours to silicon to full cure.

1.25 quarts atf+4 in TQ converter.

If you changed the filter in the tranny and dumped all the fluid, i would put about 2-3 quarts in and see where you stand. It took 5 quarts for me. I was a half quart too high and used a small tube shoved down the fill port to suck excess out.

No leaks yet Drives like a champ!

Hope that really helped!!!
Good luck buddy!
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:42 PM   #25
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great to hear yours was a success, hope mine will be...should be good with those detailed instructions...Thanks you again!!!!!
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by diyengineer View Post
You are very much welcome!

Skid pan comes off, 6 big bolts, 4 nuts will still hold the skid pan to the bottom of the tranny. remove those. Detach shifter cable bracket from TQ converter. detach breather tube (top of transfer case), remove sensors (2 sensors),use a scratch tool to mark one big line on each axel, this will make sure everything is inline when reinstalling and make your life a hell of a lot easier, remove the 4 small bolts on each of the axels and let them hang down. remove the remaining 4 or 5 bolts that bolt the TQ converter to the transmission. Support transfer case with jack, slide transfer case towards the rear and it will slide right out.

Use pry tool to remove seal from rear of tranny. Use a flat cylindrical object to bang new seal gently in.

TQ converter seal- You will need to unbolt the 4-5 bolts from the front of the TQ converter. This will give you the seal holder. Use a small pry tool to break the silicone gasket seal. Scrape seal clean and clean both surfaces. Use a punch to punch out the old seal. Install new seal in aluminum seal holder. Now use high temp silicon seal and lay a 1/8" bead around the entire vicinity of the mating face, surround each bolt hole. DO NOT COVER UP THE HOLE LOCATED IN THE TOP OF THE SEAL, go above that hole. that hole is the return for the fluid. If you seal that hole off you will destroy the TQ converter. install all bolts and tq to 20 inch lb's. Let dry for 24 hours before adding fluid. You can however install it in the mean time. Drag under jeep, put it back up on the jack. jack it back up into place. You must slide it into the splined output shaft. make sure all your markings you previously marked are in line, before sliding it into the spline! They MUST line up so you can reattach the axles easily. Slide TQ converter into the splined tranny and install nuts. reattach all sensors and hose. Reattach the shifter. re attach the axles.

If you did NOT line up the lines on the axles don't worry, your not in that much trouble. The front axles out of the TQ converter should spin freely and shouldn't be locked up. Spin it until it lines up and bolt it up.

The rear shaft will not spin, jack the rear of the jeep up using the jack and use 2 jack stands. Spin the tire until you can line up the axle bolts again and bolt it up.

Leave the pan off and wait 24 hours to silicon to full cure.

1.25 quarts atf+4 in TQ converter.

If you changed the filter in the tranny and dumped all the fluid, i would put about 2-3 quarts in and see where you stand. It took 5 quarts for me. I was a half quart too high and used a small tube shoved down the fill port to suck excess out.

No leaks yet Drives like a champ!

Hope that really helped!!!
Good luck buddy!
the tq converter this is the spacer looking piece that is between transfer case and tranny right?? can you not buy a gasket for this area??
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:03 PM   #27
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The easiest way i have found to remove that seal is to drill a small hole in the metal part, put a self tapping screw into it. Then snap a vice grip on to the screw and use a slide hammer to remove it.
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:17 PM   #28
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the tq converter this is the spacer looking piece that is between transfer case and tranny right?? can you not buy a gasket for this area??
The torque converter is in front of the transmission. The spacer between the t-case and rear of the transmission is essentially empty and is not supposed to have any ATF in it. So no gasket is needed or used between it and the t-case. The ATF is kept inside the transmission via the seal, replaced above, that surrounds the transmission's output shaft.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:20 PM   #29
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The torque converter is in front of the transmission. The spacer between the t-case and rear of the transmission is essentially empty and is not supposed to have any ATF in it. So no gasket is needed or used between it and the t-case. The ATF is kept inside the transmission via the unds the transmission's output shaft.
i understand the torque converter is in the front of tranny..but he refered to the tq converter..this must just be the transfer case he is refering to??
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:56 PM   #30
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Yep I see that now, calling the section behind the transmission the tq converter was an error in his terminology.

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