a 4.0 engine rebuild - Page 10 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 10-23-2012, 04:53 PM   #271
Newb
 
desertdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Marana, Az
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailhole View Post
Just get a Melling or Elgin and you'll be fine
Thanks for the info.
How important is it to degree in a new cam? I've rebuilt a 1/2 dozen or so ford and gm motors by just lining up the timing marks and putting #1 on TDC on the compression stroke and called it good. But I see on these TV shows these experts always talking about using a degree wheel on the cam. Can you enlighten me on this?

desertdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 05:27 PM   #272
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 6,843
Have you tried Isky and American Cam Grinding? If not I'll call them. It's been a while but I believe Isky is grinding 258 cams and I think American is still in business.

Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 05:49 PM   #273
Jeeper
 
turnstyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West Sonoma County
Posts: 144
Images: 2
This is a great threat, thank you!
__________________
Folks loves us some Jeeps out here.

turnstyle is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 08:13 PM   #274
Newb
 
desertdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Marana, Az
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Have you tried Isky and American Cam Grinding? If not I'll call them. It's been a while but I believe Isky is grinding 258 cams and I think American is still in business.
What is a 258 cam?
desertdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 09:17 PM   #275
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
Have you tried Isky and American Cam Grinding? If not I'll call them. It's been a while but I believe Isky is grinding 258 cams and I think American is still in business.
I had forgot all about Isky. Love ther lifters.
Never heard of American.
Get in to that east coast, west coast thing. Im sure there is a lot of stuff over here y'all over there have never heard of. Same with me there is lots of stuff and company's over there I have never heard of.
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 09:26 PM   #276
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
I'm just thinking a stock core will not be hard enough to handle a roller lifter.

I have thought about groove then fill with weld.

Lol. I have also thought that I'm getting way out of hand with this. Lol

Would really like to know if it could be done.
I have seen that 505 has rollers but if there isn't any steel cores they must be using cast ones
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 09:31 PM   #277
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdave

What is a 258 cam?
I'm sure he is talking about the 258 engine.
It was the inline 6cyl before the 4.0 (242)
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 10:17 PM   #278
Newb
 
desertdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Marana, Az
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailhole View Post
I'm sure he is talking about the 258 engine.
It was the inline 6cyl before the 4.0 (242)
Thats what I kind of thought, but wasn't sure. Mine is a 91 which is the first year after the renix motors I believe.
Tailhole did you see my question earlier about the degreeing of cams?
desertdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2012, 10:36 PM   #279
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdave

Thats what I kind of thought, but wasn't sure. Mine is a 91 which is the first year after the renix motors I believe.
Tailhole did you see my question earlier about the degreeing of cams?
I would. Sure not going to hurt any thing.
Most the time tho. Your not going to get any cam spec with a stock cam.
I have to look it up in the back of the catalog. And then it's still not listed.

I haven't had any trouble with stock stuff by just lining the marks up.
You can spend a lot of money getting set up to degree a cam in.
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-24-2012, 02:40 AM   #280
Jeeper
 
97wrangler-242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: poland indiana
Posts: 2,013
Subscribed. Building a 4.7 right now, care if I get a few questions in for the all knowing?
97wrangler-242 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-24-2012, 07:38 AM   #281
Newb
 
desertdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Marana, Az
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailhole View Post
I would. Sure not going to hurt any thing.
Most the time tho. Your not going to get any cam spec with a stock cam.
I have to look it up in the back of the catalog. And then it's still not listed.

I haven't had any trouble with stock stuff by just lining the marks up.
You can spend a lot of money getting set up to degree a cam in.
So basically they are degreeing in a performance grind cam that is something other than stock, correct? That makes more sense to me now.
desertdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-24-2012, 08:23 AM   #282
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
When degree'n a cam your making sure the cam and piston are working together.

Best thing is to look it up and read about it. There is no way I could try to explain it on here.
I don't fully understand all of it my self.
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-24-2012, 08:39 AM   #283
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
This is what a cam card looks like.
Is really the same as every ones else's card.
When the cam is installed to these spec this is how it will perform. You can see that it ground on 108 with the intake center line on 104. Which means its got 4 degrees advance ground in it.
And if it has been ground correctly the intake opening and closing will be as printed. (26.5 before top dead center and closing 54.5 after bottom dead center)

So if you add 26.5+54.5+180= 261.

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3767300350.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	145.0 KB
ID:	171734
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-25-2012, 07:27 AM   #284
Newb
 
desertdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Marana, Az
Posts: 9
Thanks for the info thats great.
desertdave is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-25-2012, 03:42 PM   #285
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailhole
When degree'n a cam your making sure the cam and piston are working together.

Best thing is to look it up and read about it. There is no way I could try to explain it on here.
I don't fully understand all of it my self.
CompCams has a really good "how to" online that I printed and will use.
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-25-2012, 03:58 PM   #286
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
I put the rockers on this morning and looks like the new cam lift may cause coil bind ...aka... bottom out (compress more than they can compress by design) the springs.

Just by turning it by hand it appears to be FULLY compressing the valve spring at max lift.

I can't tell if I really need more room. Or if they are just maxed out. I will probably have more time this weekend to really measure everything...

What's the mechanical differences between using shims and using shorter push rods?
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-25-2012, 08:53 PM   #287
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
If you can get a .060 feeler gauge between the coils your fine. But you shouldn't be coil binding.

On the push rods you should need a longer one if anything.

Feel free to call me tomorrow or this weekend. And I will try to walk you through it
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #288
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 6,843
You might check with Isky. They were doing the Hard Face Overlay on your core cams. Basically a welded stock cam with a hard weld wear surface. Worked pretty good on Hi lift square profile short track cams for motors you could not get billet cores for. Not so good for High V/S pressures or RPM's because of the soft core. But for a 6000 rpm 6 it might work out. And check out their new No needle roller, pressure fed bushed roller tappet.
Here ya go for a link.
http://www.iskycams.com
Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-25-2012, 09:52 PM   #289
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
Wasn't it shobeck (I know the spelling is wrong) that was doing that years back.

You know what's funny that you mentioned hard cast over lay.
I had bought a kit a while back and ended up using it up on lawn mower blades.
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-26-2012, 01:18 AM   #290
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 6,843
Web Cam Inc. - Performance and Racing Camshafts
A few have. This link is WebCam. They did my motorcycle cams for my Suzuki. They can do car cams also. You can even change lobe spread somewhat with this as well as intake/exhaust centerlines and asymmetrical or inverse lobe profiles. Mine was given a max curve. Only added 4 degrees at .050 but 10 at .200. Also went from 116 l/s to 105 l/s. 99 intake C/L. Anymore and the bucket dug into the lobe. Bumped it from 95 to 119 at the rear wheel with no loss of bottom end torque. Topped 167@7200 RWHP out of an 1800 cc V-twin. There was a lot more left in there. The valves almost kissed at split overlap. 4 valve pent roof. Anyway talk to them. Their nice guys.
Bob
Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #291
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
It's ALIVE....

It's all together and running strong!!!!

The camshaft was the problem.
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-20-2012, 07:19 PM   #292
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 6,843
Yeeeeehaaa We need pics and videos.
Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-20-2012, 08:24 PM   #293
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
Good to hear. Glad it all worked out.
It's been a long time coming. I bet your ready to ride. I need to get to work on mine now.

I did start polishing the beams on some stock rods tonight. Going to see how that turns out.
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-21-2012, 03:44 PM   #294
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailhole
Good to hear. Glad it all worked out.
It's been a long time coming. I bet your ready to ride. I need to get to work on mine now.

I did start polishing the beams on some stock rods tonight. Going to see how that turns out.
Yours is going to be super custom and expensive with all the work you are doing.
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-22-2012, 11:53 AM   #295
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
Attachment 8595

Here is the cam card from mine. It produces solid power and has enough duration to bleed off the compression that was causing my issues.


sent in the midst of ...
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-22-2012, 11:54 AM   #296
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
Attachment didn't work the first time

Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20121122_115404.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	74.0 KB
ID:	180813
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-22-2012, 08:49 PM   #297
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seal Beach
Posts: 6,843
Glad you found out what the problem was. You learned a lot along the way. Congrats on becoming an engine builder. Tailhole should be a proud papa. This was a fun read and I hope it continues with the rest of his motor.
Gunner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-22-2012, 09:58 PM   #298
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
So it runs good and feels strong?

Does it feel worth all the trouble?
tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 11-23-2012, 12:10 PM   #299
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
Itsfun00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailhole
So it runs good and feels strong?

Does it feel worth all the trouble?
I will have to see what the dyno says to determine whether it was worth the added cost, time and frustration.
Although I realize this could have been way easier and taken far less time had I picked the right engine builder to start with.
__________________
JEEP Its a four letter word....

""".....looking at the input shaft and the output shaft....the two should be very much synchronized....if they are not, you have slop in the box"""
Itsfun00 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #300
Jeeper
 
tailhole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: oxford. ms.
Posts: 938
Well I didn't want to go Christmas shopping. So I took a stock set of rods and polished the beams and reworked them with some ARP bolts.
Turned out pretty nice.

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1768798943.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	149.1 KB
ID:	186266

Stock



Click image for larger version

Name:	image-620132935.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	165.5 KB
ID:	186267

Super stock

tailhole is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Check Engine Light - Emissions jloesche TJ General Discussion Forum 18 07-12-2011 04:11 PM
Engine rebuild kits...anyone done this b4? vajeeper TJ Tech Forum 14 12-25-2010 10:49 PM
Extremely bad milage!!! ctlucas93 YJ General Discussion Forum 35 10-23-2010 08:31 PM
engine and trannie swap or rebuild? jeepygirl YJ Tech Forum 5 07-14-2010 12:44 PM
Engine Rebuild? nagymjr TJ Tech Forum 9 09-02-2009 10:47 PM


logo carid shop wrangler parts carid fender flares custom wheels store avs deflectors at carid
» Rates
Get low rates on auto insurance in Canada!

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC