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Old 03-31-2013, 10:22 PM   #31
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Here's an idea. Since pictures can be misleading due to the angles they are taken at, how about the OP gets an angle finder and tell us what the angles are for:
  1. output shaft
  2. drive shaft
  3. pinion

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Old 03-31-2013, 10:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK00TJ View Post
Here's an idea. Since pictures can be misleading due to the angles they are taken at, how about the OP gets an angle finder and tell us what the angles are for:
  1. output shaft
  2. drive shaft
  3. pinion
He already did at one point, in another thread.

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Old 03-31-2013, 10:27 PM   #33
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Take it from the flat end of the TC yoke where you see the end of the u-joint cap with that spot level side to side and the flat machined area on the rear of the axle.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick H View Post
He already did at one point, in another thread.
Found it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVU Mountainman View Post
Best I could with my I phone app. TC output 11 degrees pinion angle 16. Keep in mid this is after dropping the TC skid 1".
in a later post, he corrected this saying he measured wrong and is only off by 3 degrees which I can only assume was with the pinion measurement. This puts it at output=11, drive shaft=12, and pinion=14.

WVU, how did you measure the pinion angle? You should be either using a socket on a down facing u-joint connected to the pinion or using the flat machined surface on the axle next to the differential cover (then use math to get the pinion angle). Also, I know my phone isn't flat on the sides so I have to use a true angle finder.

Could it be possible a previous owner replaced the rear axle and had to weld new brackets on and didn't do it right? Just a thought. I guess then either way you'd want to get adjustable arms.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:09 PM   #35
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My pinion was high, but not 14 degrees I don't think. His springs could be taller than mine though. I ended up @ 10 degrees pinion and transfer case . Drive shaft @ 16-17 degrees making 6-7 degrees of actual U-joint angle, which is perfectly acceptable.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:30 PM   #36
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Ok now I'm at a loss. I did some fairly hard wheeling this weekend and now the driveline angles look much better? How is this possible? Springs settling? Something seating in place?

TC output 10*
Driveshaft 8.5*
Pinion 8.0*

It visually looks much closer. Could I drop the TC skid a couple more washers and get 2*? I already have 1" TC skid drop. Is there a Max you can drop without hurting anything?
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:40 PM   #37
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You have RC springs and they are already sagging?


J/K... My guess would be as someone posted in one of your earlier threads that you didn't loosen your CA bolts and they were bound up a little or you tightened them with the frame supported. Some good heavy wheeling may have unbound them. JJs don't have that issue but stock arms use clamping force to hold them in place.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:42 PM   #38
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Or do I need to lessen the amount of TC Drop? So confused. Sorry guys.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:46 PM   #39
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With 2" lift and a motor mount lift, I doubt you really need a TC drop. Take it out and give us some new numbers.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:48 PM   #40
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This is so weird that this could happen. The pinion angle looks so much lower. Could the control arms really hold the stock angle that well if not loosened?
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:08 PM   #41
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Also should I go around and loosen all the rear CA's then retighten?
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:12 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVU Mountainman View Post
This is so weird that this could happen. The pinion angle looks so much lower. Could the control arms really hold the stock angle that well if not loosened?
They can if they are torqued down the way they should as the axle was hanging. After you remove the TC drop, get the frame up in the air to take a little weight off of the tires. Then loosen the rear control arm bolts and put the weight back on the tires. Then go back and torque all back to spec. Make sure you get all 8 of them. If you want you can do the same with the front.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:13 PM   #43
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TC output 10*
Driveshaft 8.5*
Pinion 8.0*

According to this, you need to raise the transfer case back up. I don't know how you could get the drive shaft within 1/2 degree of the pinion. That's double cardan acceptable angles. 8 degrees pinion angle is pretty flat for 2" lift.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
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They can if they are torqued down the way they should as the axle was hanging. After you remove the TC drop, get the frame up in the air to take a little weight off of the tires. Then loosen the rear control arm bolts and put the weight back on the tires. Then go back and torque all back to spec. Make sure you get all 8 of them. If you want you can do the same with the front.
If I do the same with the front will I mess up the alignment? I had this done as soon as I put the springs on.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:15 PM   #45
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Where exactly are you measuring? Like I said, my drive shaft is about 16-17 degrees.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:16 PM   #46
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No need to raise it up. Just loosen all the control arm bolts and re-torque.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:18 PM   #47
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Quote:
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Where exactly are you measuring? Like I said, my drive shaft is about 16-17 degrees.
TC output u joint
Center of driveshaft
Pinion u joint

Here are pics before and after wheeling. Sorry pics are kinda crummy.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
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No need to raise it up. Just loosen all the control arm bolts and re-torque.
That'll work and if it is as I suspect he'll hear the bushing pop as it springs back. But then again, it might have done that while he was wheeling.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:22 PM   #49
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Wow, something drastically changed.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:23 PM   #50
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Looks like the rear control arms are at a much lesser angle after, meaning the rear of the Jeep isn't sitting nearly as high as it was before.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:30 PM   #51
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Looks like the rear control arms are at a much lesser angle after, meaning the rear of the Jeep isn't sitting nearly as high as it was before.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I have no idea what changed. The stance is still the same as before wheeling. I hit some pretty steep hill climbs with rough approaches but nothing extreme. I had my 2 young sons and wife with me. I noticed way more vibes on the way home and investigated today and that is what I found.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:38 PM   #52
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It's obvious in the last pic that the transfer case is too low. I wonder what changed..
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:52 PM   #53
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Quote:
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It's obvious in the last pic that the transfer case is too low. I wonder what changed..
If the control arms truly were bound could this have actually kept the springs from bearing the full rear vehicle weight? Then once unbound kind of made everything seat into place?
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:58 PM   #54
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If the control arms truly were bound could this have actually kept the springs from bearing the full rear vehicle weight? Then once unbound kind of made everything seat into place?
Yep. That's what we've been trying to say but you just said yourself better.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:58 PM   #55
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If the control arms truly were bound could this have actually kept the springs from bearing the full rear vehicle weight? Then once unbound kind of made everything seat into place?
Not sure really. Some, I reckon, but that looks like a lot. If that is what happened, I have to wonder if the bushings are damaged now.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:24 PM   #56
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Not sure really. Some, I reckon, but that looks like a lot. If that is what happened, I have to wonder if the bushings are damaged now.
Could be. Ill check everything out tomorrow
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:14 AM   #57
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So inspecting the control arms may not have been such a bad idea? Hmmmm, if only someone had suggested that!



Good to see your getting this problem solved. Double check that your tcase is bolted to your skid, and address the CA bolts as BLK00TJ detailed to you. Remove the tcase drop as well and see where that puts your angles.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:04 AM   #58
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Thank you everyone for the help on this issue.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:05 AM   #59
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I will update everyone after I look over everything tonight.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #60
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TC output 8.5*
DS 13*
Pinion 9*

This is after removing the TC skid drop. I am still getting a wobble under heavy acceleration. What would cause this? What can I do to fix?

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