alignment question ? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 06-06-2013, 08:31 AM   #1
Newb
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
alignment question ?

Recently had new springs, shocks and steering stabilizer installed,
do I need an alignment? Jeeps seems to drive fine. I can't tell any
difference in the ride and drive after the new parts. Is this normal ??


2003 Sahara, 100K miles
garage kept, Tn. vehicle
never been off road

bigdaddys1965 is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:35 AM   #2
Jeeper
 
PStov98TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Long Beach, Mississippi
Posts: 2,031
Are the springs lift springs? Or replacement stock height ones?

__________________
OME 2.5" coils and Nitro Shocks, Metalcloak front track bar, JKS Quick discos, 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's w/Kevlar, 15x8 Pacer wheels, thedirtworx rear tire carrier
PStov98TJ is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:59 AM   #3
Jeeper
 
Wattapunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North TX
Posts: 2,216
It's not hard to check or do your own alignment.
Basic Jeep Front End Alignment
Wattapunk is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 09:14 AM   #4
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattapunk View Post
It's not hard to check or do your own alignment.
Basic Jeep Front End Alignment
I must be an idiot then. I even did the whole using 3' metal bars clamped to the rotors and doing the measurements and still dont know if its correct. I guess if its not pulling them im fine though.
Huelsmma is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 09:33 AM   #5
Newb
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
stock height springs (mfg. by AC Delco), stock replacement shocks (Monroe Sence a trac). I was not having any issues with the original items, just wanted to change them at the 100K miles. Should I expect a difference in ride?

Thanks,
bigdaddys1965 is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 12:24 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 268
You might not feel anything if alignment is off, your tires will just wear unevenly. Just check your toe in, it's simple. 1/16 more narrow in front than rear of your wheel.
PiePuncher is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 03:00 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
PStov98TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Long Beach, Mississippi
Posts: 2,031
But if the springs are the same height the alignment shouldn't be off. If you're worried about it, an alignment isn't expensive, and you can do it yourself as stated if you want too.
__________________
OME 2.5" coils and Nitro Shocks, Metalcloak front track bar, JKS Quick discos, 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's w/Kevlar, 15x8 Pacer wheels, thedirtworx rear tire carrier
PStov98TJ is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
flflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 519
Nice set of tires $400++++ alignment $49.95 seems like a pretty easy call to me.
flflash is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 03:41 PM   #9
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,823
Images: 2
All you need to do is the toe-in which can be done in your driveway for free in 10-15 minutes. I don't have the link here on how to do it but I can post it tonight if you like. Done with a little care and nothing more than a tape measure, wrench, & big pliers, your toe-in results will be every bit as accurate as the most advanced laser-guided alignment rack can produce. Really.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 04:29 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by flflash View Post
Nice set of tires $400++++ alignment $49.95 seems like a pretty easy call to me.
Must be nice...cheapest alignment anywhere within 30miles is $89. Took it there they did an alignment at a 4x4 shop, paid $89 and they still dont look toed in.

If its says toe: (marked green on tech sheet)
.09 .13

Whats that telling me?
Huelsmma is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 05:21 PM   #11
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,823
Images: 2
That says your toe-in is a bit light, factory spec is .15. It also says the steering wheel wasn't quite centered when they tested it.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 05:25 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
PStov98TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Long Beach, Mississippi
Posts: 2,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
That says your toe-in is a bit light, factory spec is .15. It also says the steering wheel wasn't quite centered when they tested it.
Is it important to have the steering wheel absolutely centered before an alignment?

And I'm guessing the decimals refer to fractions of an inch?
__________________
OME 2.5" coils and Nitro Shocks, Metalcloak front track bar, JKS Quick discos, 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's w/Kevlar, 15x8 Pacer wheels, thedirtworx rear tire carrier
PStov98TJ is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 05:29 PM   #13
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,823
Images: 2
No it isn't required the steering wheel be exactly centered. It's just that their printout saying.09 and .13 said they were measured independently like would be done with an IFS (independent front suspension) since each wheel on an IFS axle has its own toe-in adjustment (a tie rod for both wheels). The TJ's solid non-IFS front axle combines the the toe-in into one connecting link & just one adjustment that sets the toe-in for both sides at the same time.

Regarding converting degrees to fractions of inches, that is a complex enough subject that I don't get into it. This thread will give you an idea of how it works... http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/in.../t-215446.html
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 07:36 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
PStov98TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Long Beach, Mississippi
Posts: 2,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
No it isn't required the steering wheel be exactly centered. It's just that their printout saying.09 and .13 said they were measured independently like would be done with an IFS (independent front suspension) since each wheel on an IFS axle has its own toe-in adjustment (a tie rod for both wheels). The TJ's solid non-IFS front axle combines the the toe-in into one connecting link & just one adjustment that sets the toe-in for both sides at the same time.

Regarding converting degrees to fractions of inches, that is a complex enough subject that I don't get into it. This thread will give you an idea of how it works... http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/in.../t-215446.html
Yep. Figured that about the steering wheel being centered. It made sense.

And thanks for the link. I'll give it a look later tonight.
__________________
OME 2.5" coils and Nitro Shocks, Metalcloak front track bar, JKS Quick discos, 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's w/Kevlar, 15x8 Pacer wheels, thedirtworx rear tire carrier
PStov98TJ is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 07:40 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
That says your toe-in is a bit light, factory spec is .15. It also says the steering wheel wasn't quite centered when they tested it.
So should i be going back to them and telling them to get it to .15? Is it worth my time and waiting there? I did pay for this service
Huelsmma is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #16
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,823
Images: 2
You paid for it but you could set it yourself in less time than it would take to drive back to the alignment shop & wait for it to be finished. And get it set precisely. Though it is "close enough" as it is.

If you're interested in doing your own which can produce a toe-in setting every bit as precise as an alignment rack can, check out the info at Basic Jeep Front End Alignment

The above tells how to measure between the tire to set the toe-in so the fronts of the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together than in the rear.

A more repeatable way of measuring involves two inexpensive pieces of 1" square aluminum tubing and two spring clamps as shown below. The photos should be fairly self explanatory. I haven't paid for an alignment on any of my Jeeps in probably 15 years.

This is how I do mine... photos courtesy of mrblane aka Black Magic Brakes.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AlignmentCombinedVertical.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	104.8 KB
ID:	258532  
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:27 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
cchartrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 315
Alright, I'm going to chime in with questions. DIY alignments are based on front of tire vs. rear of tire....... 1/16 to 1/8 toe in. BUT, with the huge variance of tire size, wouldn't that effect the angle of the toe in? 35" tires as opposed to 30" tires with the same measurements, would have different angles. Am I wrong? I know I'm not, but I'm just trying to " process". We're talking VERY small adjustments and really expensive tires! 😜
cchartrand is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:31 PM   #18
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,823
Images: 2
Yep, the bigger the tire, the more you want to lean towards the 1/16" toe-in vs. the 1/8" for a smaller tire.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:39 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
cchartrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Yep, the bigger the tire, the more you want to lean towards the 1/16" toe-in vs. the 1/8" for a smaller tire.
Thanks Jerry. That was my thought. I'm going to be running 33's.... 3/32's ?
cchartrand is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:47 PM   #20
Jeeper
 
cchartrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchartrand View Post

Thanks Jerry. That was my thought. I'm going to be running 33's.... 3/32's ?
Just wondering how much caster effects tire wear. I'm thinking that that might effect tires more than 1/16 of an inch on toe in.
cchartrand is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 09:12 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
flflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huelsmma View Post
Must be nice...cheapest alignment anywhere within 30miles is $89. Took it there they did an alignment at a 4x4 shop, paid $89 and they still dont look toed in.

If its says toe: (marked green on tech sheet)
.09 .13

Whats that telling me?
Where I work I do 2 wheel Jeep alignment $49.95 no extra charge for being a 4x4, oversize tires or aftermarket lifts etc. Even though I call it a "Two Wheel Alignment" heads go on all four wheels and everything is checked including thrust angle, lead, caster, camber, toe both front and rear. Normaly there is no adjustment in the rear but I measure anyway to catch bent axles/housings/control arms etc. I'm amazed how badly your being overcharged for alignments.
The .09 and .13 on your print out are hundreths of a degree if you look at your print out it will also show the factory recomended tolerance, those numbers are well within that.
The human eye is very easily fooled by angles and perception half the Jeeps I see look toed in and excessively cambered ( tires leaning in at the top ) the machine tells me exact numbers.
flflash is offline   Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 11:11 PM   #22
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 216
Ok thanks guys. I had picked up the square tubing before my alignment and had it set what I thought was accurate. But taking it to the alignment shop did make me aware i had a bad lca bushing that we replaced with a new stock lca for now (until i buy aftermatket) and we also installed cam bolts to help adjust a bit.

If its that small of a fraction, I wont worry about taking off from work to take it back.

In the future I will do my own though.

Some local shops charge $149 lol cough...4wheel parts
Huelsmma is offline   Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 09:18 AM   #23
Jeeper
 
flflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huelsmma View Post

Some local shops charge $149 lol cough...4wheel parts
That's insane ours are $59.95 for a 2 wheel and $89.95 for a 4 wheel ( Jeepers get a discount I charge them $49.95 )
I double checked that toe spec this morning and it's .09 degrees to .21 so your all good.
flflash is offline   Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 09:22 AM   #24
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,823
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchartrand View Post
Just wondering how much caster effects tire wear. I'm thinking that that might effect tires more than 1/16 of an inch on toe in.
Caster angle won't affect it at. Perhaps you're thinking of the camber angle but even that won't wear a tire as quickly as a bad toe-in angle will.

__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 PM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC