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Old 10-19-2008, 06:47 PM   #1
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Banks Torque Tube Vs. Borla Header

Hey Guys,

I was almost dead set on the Banks Torque Tube Header and while talking to a friend of mine, he recommended that I go with the Borla as it is less prone to cracking.

His argument was that the Banks unit was still a "shorty" and regardless of their warranty, they still crack.. He said to pay the extra money and go with the Borla because of the length of the down tube and that it is less prone to cracking..

Any thoughts on this guys?

Thanks

Timber

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Old 10-19-2008, 07:03 PM   #2
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Both the Banks AND the Borla have earned reputations for cracking as neither have the steel flex joints on both sides that have been added to the OE header to stop cracking. If you're doing this for performance, don't bother. The OE header is just that, a header and not a manifold which does benefit by being replaced with a header.

Personally, I would ONLY replace your stock header if it is cracked and since yours has the flex joints, I would be surprised if it is cracked. Most that replace their OE headers with Banks or Borla headers soon regret having done so once the cracking starts. Especially since they quickly learn they don't get any of the performance benefit the advertising hype was promising. They push their "lifetime warranty" which is of little comfort when you're replacing it due to cracking.

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Old 10-19-2008, 07:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Both the Banks AND the Borla have earned reputations for cracking as neither have the steel flex joints on both sides that have been added to the OE header to stop cracking. If you're doing this for performance, don't bother. The OE header is just that, a header and not a manifold which does benefit by being replaced with a header.

Personally, I would ONLY replace your stock header if it is cracked and since yours has the flex joints, I would be surprised if it is cracked. Most that replace their OE headers with Banks or Borla headers soon regret having done so once the cracking starts. Especially since they quickly learn they don't get any of the performance benefit the advertising hype was promising. They push their "lifetime warranty" which is of little comfort when you're replacing it due to cracking.
Mine is cracked.. I just cannot for the life of me find out where... What are these flex joints you speak of? I do not have anything on mine which resemble anything flexible.

Thanks Jerry!
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:51 PM   #4
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Newer OE headers have expansion joints on both sides like in this aftermarket header. They are flex joints that look like accordian joints which flex where the header would normally crack.

I found that image at Shop 1A Auto® for 1991-99 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L 242ci Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold (with Gasket Kit) for your Wrangler

At that price, it's a steal if it's any good. I can't speak for the quality of the one in that ad, but any header you buy should at least have expansion joints like those or you'll just end up eventually with another cracked header. I had three cracked headers before Jeep finally installed the newer style which has been fine for the past 142,000 miles since it was installed just before my '97 TJ went out of warranty.
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:37 PM   #5
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Dang, wish that post would have been up before I bought my Banks. So far I love it though. I'll keep you posted if it cracks, bought it two months ago.
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Old 10-20-2008, 11:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Newer OE headers have expansion joints on both sides like in this aftermarket header. They are flex joints that look like accordian joints which flex where the header would normally crack.

I found that image at Shop 1A Auto® for 1991-99 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L 242ci Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold (with Gasket Kit) for your Wrangler

At that price, it's a steal if it's any good. I can't speak for the quality of the one in that ad, but any header you buy should at least have expansion joints like those or you'll just end up eventually with another cracked header. I had three cracked headers before Jeep finally installed the newer style which has been fine for the past 142,000 miles since it was installed just before my '97 TJ went out of warranty.
Thanks Jerry! I see exactly what you are talking about now.. Unfortunately, mine is a 2000 model and it appears that A-1 Auto only offers mine in 2 pieces (front and rear) and they do not appear to have the expansion joints.. Any ideas where i can get one for a 2000 with Expansion joints?

Thanks sir!
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Old 10-20-2008, 11:52 AM   #7
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Ebay often has them, that's where I would check first.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberman View Post
Hey Guys,

I was almost dead set on the Banks Torque Tube Header and while talking to a friend of mine, he recommended that I go with the Borla as it is less prone to cracking.

His argument was that the Banks unit was still a "shorty" and regardless of their warranty, they still crack.. He said to pay the extra money and go with the Borla because of the length of the down tube and that it is less prone to cracking..

Any thoughts on this guys?

Thanks

Timber
I had a Banks it cracked in three spots I change over to a JBA there office is very close to where I live
Dont buy the Banks, it will crack after mine cracked I talked to a friend at a off road place here in town he told me every other one comes back cracked
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:43 PM   #9
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I appreciate all the info Guys!!!
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberman View Post
Mine is cracked.. I just cannot for the life of me find out where... What are these flex joints you speak of? I do not have anything on mine which resemble anything flexible.

Thanks Jerry!
I finally found my leak between the two down tubes above the collector where it can't be welded. I had my original cracks that were very obvious welded a year and a half ago when I put on a new cat to pass smog. Now the hidden leak has caused a lean condition making the computer over richen the system and took out the cat. Now I am faced with buying a new header and a new cat.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:00 PM   #11
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I would install the new header and drive it for awhile, it may clean itself out and save you the cost of a new cat.
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:51 AM   #12
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i've been wondering about the Banks myself. untill now i knew nothing about the cracking issues. here is a link you might find interesting, both good and bad reviews

Banks Torque Tubes Exhaust Manifold R...s & Prices
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:09 AM   #13
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To stop the cracking I installed new poly motor mounts and a flex pipe inline to the Cat just past the curve around the oil pan, now the exhaust isn't quite as rigid and has some give. Another thing is that I haven't seen a Banks torque tube header designed like mine, maybe mine is a new design? Banks on the left and POS Rugged Ridge on the right.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:04 AM   #14
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Bump.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:40 AM   #15
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why?
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:49 AM   #16
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Have you seen a Banks Header like the one on the left in the Pic?
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:38 AM   #17
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yeah, i was interested in it at one time. Banks claims 25 hp gain. all the talk of cracking has turned me off a bit
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:11 AM   #18
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They will all crack, at least banks has the lifetime replacement warranty and they sound gnarly, I've been really happy with them since I put them in. No problems yet.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:52 PM   #19
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You Don't Know Jack ****

What is wrong with welding headers? I'll weld anybody's header for $40.00 removed, $80.00 Installed. The problem is that we drive our Jeeps crazy. Therefore, the engine, frame, body, etc. rock and roll like crazy. They are very heavy duty, rigid framed, stiff vehicles. All these headers you guys talk about are just fine. Nothing on the market is going to stand up to the abuse we put on these rigs 100%. Aside from getting .25 IN wall X 1.5 IN OD SS tube stock; .5 IN plate SS stock; and then designing, fabricating, and welding up your own header with .5 IN weld beads all over it, nothing is going to put up with the overly rigid design of the Jeeps frame, engine, and body set-up. But, that is why we love Jeeps, right?

Now, that being said, there are dozens of things you can do to modify and lighten the amount of stress that is put on your header tubes at the collector welds (since that is the only place I have ever seen these things crack): 1) As many expansion, or flex, joints as you can fit in the exhaust system. 2) Double weld all weld beads before installing a new, or used, header. 3) Better, more flexable exhaust hangers. 4) Get a header with the longest down pipes possible (i.e. Pacesetter, Gibson, etc).

To be honest Borla and Banks are the two least thought out and poorly performing designes I have seen. Also, you can always have me or Jack Burns make you one. That is, if you really want an indestructible, hi-performance header. Maybe you do not know Jack, or I: He wants $3,000.00 +. I am a little more reasonable, but not as loved. LOL, see how I worked Jack's name into this to justify my clever little title there?
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:20 PM   #20
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go to the junkyard, buy a set of 01-06 two piece factory cast exhaust manifolds. have a muffler shop bend some pipe and make a Y piece tied into the stock downpipe.

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