best bolt-in cage - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 01-19-2011, 03:25 PM   #31
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,473
Sorry, pulling it through a mandrel does not change the molecular structure, it just changes the shape. It's not near hot enough. It becomes more rounder and more uniform - much more accurate and consistent, - good for hydraulic systems using a piston etc. The process of pulling and twisting through the mandrel work hardens it. It's much the same as bending it.
Hammering, squashing, folding it doesn't change anything on the molecular level either.
DOM is much harder to bend - that why it's often used for tie rods, control arms etc. But it also tends to shatter.

To prove or disprove it, simply put a piece of it in acid for a few minutes. The stress cracks become obvious - you can see the spirals where it was turned and pulled and all the tiny cracks around it.

Now bend it - - you are bending an already work hardened material - those stress cracks get bigger and lots more of them. It's not unlike bending a steel wire - then re-bending it at the same place. It becomes weak. The first bend is like the mandrel does to the tube, then the 2nd bend is harder to do since it's work hardened, and after the 2nd bend it becomes very brittle. A third or 4th bend it may even break. Try it!

Now weld it - even more cracks.

Put it in a press and you can break it.
It's so simple - use pool acid (Hydrochloric) or even Sulfuric acid.

To get rid of the stress cracks it must be heated then properly cooled - best to leave that to the heat treating boys. You aren't going to do that to a weld-in cage.

I've done it, and I've seen it. Talk to a metallurgical engineer about it.
I don't know about anyone else, but I sure wouldn't want to depend on something that's already pre-broken.

There are lots of opinions about DOM vs ERW - racing associations rules are often very different from each other. Many are based on wives's tales.

For example - most of them won't accept aluminum - yet when I owned part of Don's Chassis we specialized in Formula I race car chassis - that was all we did. Our world famous chassis' were all made of aluminum and carbon fiber. We had about 12 "engineers" working for us. Most specialized in the actual design of the structure, but 2 were metallurgical guys. By most racing clubs rules they would not be acceptable.

Welding itself even on ERW is a problem too. If it cools too slowly it becomes soft - annealed. To fast it gets hard and brittle. Try cooling a hot weld with CO2 gas or Freon - way too fast - it's easy to shatter, but it's so hard a regular hacksaw has trouble cutting it. Keep it warm with a torch and let it cool slowly, it stays soft and malleable. Try it!


But - proper design, triangulation, gusseting etc - is super important. Probably more important than the material itself - within reason. No, spaghetti won't work.

__________________
It's no wonder the country is falling apart - stupidity abounds!
rrich is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Tags
bolt in , roll cage , sport cage

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poison Spyder Lazer-Fit Full Cage Kits DTS Vendor Spotlight! Great Deals for Members. 14 07-24-2013 12:03 PM
Broke transfer case bolt removal - seeking ideas Mustache YJ Tech Forum 11 08-30-2010 09:22 AM
Cant get this bolt through!!!!!!!!!! Kohrs93 YJ General Discussion Forum 1 07-12-2010 06:36 PM
Roll cage bolt, please help Pylonpounder YJ Tech Forum 13 07-26-2009 05:02 AM
Bolt in cage??? KellyK TJ Tech Forum 15 01-29-2009 10:34 PM



» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC