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Old 02-17-2013, 04:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DadeCountyJeeper View Post
Call me ignorant but I have a question.

I am running 33s now and I admit I need to improve my braking a bit. Would it be wrong for me to buy slotted rotors and good ceramics pads on say eBay or another website as opposed to the black magic ones?

I say slotted rotors because I think they would help with keeping them cool. Not sure how they would perform off road though???
Do what you wish, but I'll bet good money the Black Magic pads on a decent standard (non slotted or drilled) rotor will out perform anyone's ceramic pad, or any other pad. You will not be disappointed.

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Old 02-17-2013, 08:49 PM   #32
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From what I've read, the only benefit ceramic pads have is that they are quieter and metallic brake better stopping performance. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's only what I have read.

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Old 02-17-2013, 08:55 PM   #33
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The Black Magic pads are $125 (cheaper/better than EBC pads). The pads and Centric Premium rotors combo pack is $225 with free shipping. You really can't beat the deal, for what you get.
Jeep TJ, Black Magic Brakes
Really appreciate the info. Sounds like a really nice project with real results.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:05 PM   #34
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From what I've read, the only benefit ceramic pads have is that they are quieter and metallic brake better stopping performance. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's only what I have read.
I just removed ceramic pads to install Black Magic pads. The ceramic pads were quiet, clean, and worked better than the Centric semi metallic pads i had on it prior. Neither one are anywhere near the Black Magic pads as far as braking. Not even close.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:38 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by DadeCountyJeeper View Post
Call me ignorant but I have a question.

I am running 33s now and I admit I need to improve my braking a bit. Would it be wrong for me to buy slotted rotors and good ceramics pads on say eBay or another website as opposed to the black magic ones?

I say slotted rotors because I think they would help with keeping them cool. Not sure how they would perform off road though???
Slotted rotors don't actually keep anything cooler, in fact your arguably loosing cooling effectiveness because your loosing mass on the rotor. Years ago slotted/drilled rotors were used because out gassing was an issue with pads and the slots would prevent gas build up between the pads and rotor. This isn't really an issue for modern pads on regular vehicles. Even high performance teams don't use them, look at every F1 car, I doubt any use slotted/cross drilled rotors.

Blaine can comment on this, but I'm pretty sure he's tested just many drilled/slotted rotors and has concluded they don't help. If there was something better than the centric rotors he'd be selling it.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:01 PM   #36
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Slotted rotors don't actually keep anything cooler, in fact your arguably loosing cooling effectiveness because your loosing surface area on the rotor. Years ago slotted/drilled rotors were used because out gassing was an issue with pads and the slots would prevent gas build up between the pads and rotor. This isn't really an issue for modern pads on regular vehicles. Even high performance teams don't use them, look at every F1 car, I doubt any use slotted/cross drilled rotors.

Blaine can comment on this, but I'm pretty sure he's tested just many drilled/slotted rotors and has concluded they don't help. If there was something better than the centric rotors he'd be selling it.

At the end of the day, a quality slotted rotor will improve braking. The problem is when it does it and how much the overall effect is.

For normal stop and go, you won't see much improvement. For a panic stop you will see improvement as the rotor heats up and begins start shedding heat.

To see full improvement at every use of the brakes, you have to use the brakes pretty much like you are on a track.

I'm currently testing a set on Kat's rig and I'm not a fan. The braking event is no longer linear like it is with a solid face rotor. It starts off with a lower amount of brake torque than you get with solids and then is about equal in the middle and then ramps up higher at the end of the event.

This is the fourth variation of non solid face rotors and so far, it has all been the same.

They are an improvement, I don't believe they are enough of one to justify the additional cost.



There have also been a lot of very cheap combo sets offered out there. I've purchased and tested a bunch of them with testers doing it as a blind test. They assumed I was testing one of my products and reported back that they really didn't recommend I include the stuff in my inventory.

When I do a test with someone other than one of my rigs to verify my results, the tester never knows what I am testing and I go to great pains to disguise the product. When we did the testing for the yellow, green and blue pads, I carefully scuffed the powercoat and painted them with a high heat flat black so the tester did not know what they were getting.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by freeskier

Slotted rotors don't actually keep anything cooler, in fact your arguably loosing cooling effectiveness because your loosing mass on the rotor. Years ago slotted/drilled rotors were used because out gassing was an issue with pads and the slots would prevent gas build up between the pads and rotor. This isn't really an issue for modern pads on regular vehicles. Even high performance teams don't use them, look at every F1 car, I doubt any use slotted/cross drilled rotors.

Blaine can comment on this, but I'm pretty sure he's tested just many drilled/slotted rotors and has concluded they don't help. If there was something better than the centric rotors he'd be selling it.
Having competed in road race I was compelled to say that this is exactly what I found. Good thermal mass with good venting vanes, a good pad compound and great fluid was perfect. All those "flash" rotors crack, warp, and fail under most racing conditions. The same physics apply regardless of the vehicle, they just don't have the same effect/consequences.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes

At the end of the day, a quality slotted rotor will improve braking. The problem is when it does it and how much the overall effect is.

For normal stop and go, you won't see much improvement. For a panic stop you will see improvement as the rotor heats up and begins start shedding heat.

To see full improvement at every use of the brakes, you have to use the brakes pretty much like you are on a track.

I'm currently testing a set on Kat's rig and I'm not a fan. The braking event is no longer linear like it is with a solid face rotor. It starts off with a lower amount of brake torque than you get with solids and then is about equal in the middle and then ramps up higher at the end of the event.

This is the fourth variation of non solid face rotors and so far, it has all been the same.

They are an improvement, I don't believe they are enough of one to justify the additional cost.

There have also been a lot of very cheap combo sets offered out there. I've purchased and tested a bunch of them with testers doing it as a blind test. They assumed I was testing one of my products and reported back that they really didn't recommend I include the stuff in my inventory.

When I do a test with someone other than one of my rigs to verify my results, the tester never knows what I am testing and I go to great pains to disguise the product. When we did the testing for the yellow, green and blue pads, I carefully scuffed the powercoat and painted them with a high heat flat black so the tester did not know what they were getting.
Great info as always.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:20 PM   #39
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I just removed ceramic pads to install Black Magic pads. The ceramic pads were quiet, clean, and worked better than the Centric semi metallic pads i had on it prior. Neither one are anywhere near the Black Magic pads as far as braking. Not even close.
FWIW, these are the pads I had..
Products Page - Performance Brake Parts - Drilled and Slotted Rotors - Ceramic Brake Pads
The Z16 Evolution ceramics. They were superior to Centric Posi Quiet pads as far as performance, no question.
However, no where close to Black Magic pads.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:00 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Patrick H

Do what you wish, but I'll bet good money the Black Magic pads on a decent standard (non slotted or drilled) rotor will out perform anyone's ceramic pad, or any other pad. You will not be disappointed.
Actually now that I looked at it, the price is not bad. I will check these out for future purchase but for now I have to make the jeep heavier(front bumper, back bumper, and much more before I can make it stop better) I know backwards but hey brakes are only gonna hold me back right? Lol

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