Clutch hydraulics or Clutch? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 07-19-2014, 03:01 PM   #1
Newb
 
bluedimension's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Clutch hydraulics or Clutch?

Hi all, greetings from South Africa.

I have a 2004 TJ with the 5 speed trans. Recently iīve noticed itīs becoming harder to shift into 1st and sometimes second. But sometimes slips into gear no problem. Sitting and shifting in and out of 1st today i could feel the Jeep move ever so slightly forward when shifting into first, but this seems to only happen when itīs difficult to go into gear. It doesnīt run forward but feels like a nudge forwrd then no movement. The times it slips into gear easily it doesnīt seem to move. My first though would be the clutch is not completely disengaging or could this point to something else. When moving it shifts no problem. If you shift into 1st before coming to a complete stop it also seems fine. Iīm hoping itīs the master or slave but donīt want to just replace if it could be something else as the pre-bled system is $700 here and only from the agents! Clutch otherwise feels perfect. Jeep only has 75k km so 45k miles on it. Any thoughts appreciated.

bluedimension is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2014, 03:07 PM   #2
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 33,231
Images: 2
With only 45k miles on it, I really doubt it's the clutch. I almost kinda doubt it's the clutch hydraulic system either. I'd probably bet on a bad pilot bearing in the flywheel that the transmission's input shaft might be going bad which would spin the input shaft fast enough to make it harder to shift into gear... the pilot bearing is supposed to keep the transmission shaft from spinning or at least spinning too fast when the clutch pedal is being held down. Or it could be the transmission. This is actually a fairly common problem with the TJ.

__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2014, 03:54 PM   #3
Newb
 
bluedimension's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Thanks Jerry, gives me something else to look at. Would a bad transmission cause the TJ to move slightly when shifting into 1st? Hope itīs not the trans! Been looking at clutch kits your side of the world so if i have to go in and change the bearing i might just get a whole kit shipped over as the prices this side are crazy.
bluedimension is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2014, 04:36 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,874
Well the pilot bearing or bushing mostly holds the input shaft of tranny with the attached clutch disc centered with the rotational axis of the crank whenever the clutch is depressed and the disk is free to move some laterally

It is a bushing or bearing rather than a pilot hole so that the input shaft and crankshaft can have different rotational speeds without wear which is critical for gear changes stopped or moving

It could affect shifts but what you describe sounds more like worn syncros in the tranny to me

Not sure on 6 speed but typically one syncro does 2 gears so if one syncro does both gears you are having issues with that would also fit with a failing syncro

Personally I think that German 6 speed it the least desirable and most expensive to repair manual tranny ever used in a 4.0 wrangler

Also be sure to check level and appearance of the lubricant in the transmission
Digger84 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2014, 04:37 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,874
Sorry I see you have the 5 SPd much better tranny but still suspect syncros
Digger84 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-20-2014, 01:31 AM   #6
Newb
 
bluedimension's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
But when driving the gear changes are smooth. There is never any grinding and it will always go into 1st. It just sometimes feels like there is something blocking the gear lever from going forward. Yesterday it also would move slightly when shifting into reverse. Iīm taking it into the mountains today so see how it goes and Iīll report back. Thanks.
bluedimension is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-20-2014, 08:15 PM   #7
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Water Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 6,156
Images: 11
Have you checked the clutch (hydraulic) fluid level?
__________________
Dennis
Water Dog is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-21-2014, 08:44 AM   #8
Newb
 
bluedimension's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Yes, fluid level all seems fine. After driving it around yesterday I'm thinking Jerry might be onto something with the pilot bearing. The whole 80 odd mile ride it was only hard to shift into 1st or reverse around 5 times. It would always go in but you just need to give it a little extra force than a normal shift. It also still gives a little movement forward or backward depending on gear selected but only when it's difficult to shift. When moving, it shifts smoothly through all the gears, up and down. Also, if it was the hydraulics I'd expect it to shift easier if I pumped the clutch but it doesn't. You'd also expect that if the hydraulics where at fault the clutch would take earlier than normal but it seems fine. Am I right in thinking this? It makes sense what Jerry said because it feel like the trans is still connected and enough to just shift the Jeep forward when 1st is selected but then this friction is enough to separate the the engine from the transmission and it doesn't creep forward. The pilot bearing may be on its way out but not jamming all the time.
bluedimension is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-28-2014, 04:23 PM   #9
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Coast
Posts: 11
I had similar issues to begin with on my 02 TJ 5-speed. I went through the forums and initially decided to change the Master Cylinder since it was a fix I could do myself. There was some leakage from the connection going into the transmission. This turned out not to be the proper fix as the next 2 weeks went down hill very fast. What was a minor shifting issue in the lower gears got progressively worse. I could not shift from 1st to 2nd, but could shift from 2nd to 3rd. I limped home from a wheeling trip and drove to my mechanic the next day in 2nd gear. My issue turned out to be a broken input shaft. After removal, you could clearly see on the shaft that it had been cracked for some time. The total repair also included a new clutch and associated components since my rig was over 140K.

I'm not saying this is your issue, but I would suggest you have it looked at right away. Possibly the pilot bearing or something else minor, but will soon become something major.

Best of luck!
__________________
2002 Wrangler Sport
3.25" RC Lift
General Grabber AT2's 33x12.50
F&R - Yukon Chrome-Moly 30 spline axles & 4.56 gears
R - Yukon Grizzly locker
F - Yukon Zip locker & ARB compressor
OTB510 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-28-2014, 04:27 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,469
Before you start tearing it apart try bleeding the system. The brake fluid used to operate the hydraulics takes on moisture, and over time and it can cause the clutch not to fully release. It could also be the clutch is going but before you rip anything apart bleed the system. It has saved me from replacing clutches prematurely a few times.
demarpaint is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2014, 02:04 PM   #11
Newb
 
bluedimension's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Thanks for all the ideas guys. Just an update on my clutch/trans issues. I eventually had a chance to pull the transmission and clutch on my TJ. The problem appears to have been caused by throwout bearing. It would hardly turn and had worn most of the way through the pressure plate fingers. It would not have lasted much longer before the end of the fingers were no more. Clutch disc could have done a few more thousand miles. Flywheel perfect. The whole clutch kit was Sachs. Pilot bearing was still in pretty good shape but the grease was old and hard. Input shaft was all good. Pilot bearing drove me insane trying to get it out. Tried grease, then white bread. Welded up a slide hammer which just managed to pull one of the rollers out the bearing. Ended up using wet paper which popped the whole bush and bearing out.

I then tried to order a LUK kit from partsgeek but they wouldnīt ship to South Africa so I had to buy from ebay in the USA. It took just under two weeks to arrive but insted of a LUK kit they sent a Rhinopac? Freaked out at that as I realy wanted the LUK. The Rhinopac kit consisted of a Valeo clutch disc and pressure plate. The throwout bearing was the solid metal version and pilot bearing. I couldnīt wait for a LUK kit as iīm off on a 4000mile trip to Namibia in two weeks, so had to have the clutch in. I fitted it today, and changed the transmission and transfer case oil. Smooth shifting again!

bluedimension is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 AM.



JeepŪ, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC