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Old 07-04-2008, 01:03 AM   #1
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Cooling issue

Ok heres the setup.

2002 4.0 3 speed auto.

the 3 speed auto has been running hot latley. hot meaning if im wearing sandals my gas pedal foot gets really hot. and the shifter is almost hot to the touch. Now my auto is on its own cooler and it does not run into the radiator. Im thinking im loosing my torque converter but that a whole nother issue. but a dragging trans may be the caus eof my problem.

Now my Radiator is all metal and new with fresh 60/40 orange coolant in it.

Im running a jeep flexalite efan.

Now i started getting heating issues a while ago and i had my stock plastic radiator blow up and everything over heated. which is why i have a all metal rad and the efan

the problem im having isnt at low speed its at high speed on the freeway or extended 4low high RPMs runs like climbing sand dunes.

Driving on the highway tonight i was running over 210 on both the stock and autometer gauge. I just dont get it. you would think with the massive amounts of air flow on top of the efan flowing through the radiator at highway speeds i would be running cooler then in stop and go traffic.

tomorrow im gonna re bleed my system and check everything. but this issue is really getting to me. ive been dealing with it for a while now.
Some people have said im making air bubbles in the head, or a bad head gasket. Im not loosing any coolant and the jeep runs like a top.

if you have any ideas please feel free to chime in.

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Old 07-04-2008, 05:38 AM   #2
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When was the last time you changed your transmission fluid? It may be time for a flush/change. If you changed it recently, you may have air bubbles in the transmission cooler itself.

I had a YJ that would only run not on the freeway, it was a manual trans and the 4.0L. I actually never solved the problem, and it never ran extremely not, just above the "normal" range for the engine.

Sorry I am not more help, but that is what came to mind when I was reading your issue.

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Old 07-04-2008, 09:07 AM   #3
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Mine will get hot. I thought it was because there is no insulation. All it is is the tranny, the floor then your feet.
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:31 AM   #4
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What type of tranny cooler?
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:34 AM   #5
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Have you replaced the thermostat? How is the water pump?
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:53 AM   #6
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hey the normal operating temp for the 4.0 is 210.. don't know if anyone knows taht or not, why don't ou just buy a 180 thermostat to put in it. get aluminium radiators and run all electric fans.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:17 AM   #7
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water pump is new, trans cooler is from B&M, trans fluid is synthetic and new. now i know the trans will get hot during use. I do have the deep pan and cooler on it. but the trans gets REALLY hot as in my feet are burning and the "hump" is pretty warm. last night i had a cold gatorade in the cup holder and within an hour it was luke warm. oh and the thermostat is new and i checked it before putting it in. it said 195 on the back of the t stat.

http://http://images.autoanything.co...oler_70268.jpg


i was thinking about putting it on a seperate E fan with it.

I really appreciate the ideas and help guys keep em coming.

A friend said something about a possible leak in the head where its airrating the coolant.
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Old 07-04-2008, 12:32 PM   #8
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How about one of the b&m's with the theremostatic fan on it. Pricy but worth it. We have one but not on my jeep.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:11 PM   #9
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ok so i went outside to try and bleed the system and the tstat never opened. Sooo im gonna pull the tstat and test it. maybe i have a big air bubble or something. Im also gonna drill a small hole in the tstat. ill let you guys know.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:33 PM   #10
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First, don't install a 180 thermostat, it won't reduce engine temps in the least except perhaps in the dead of winter in very cold conditions. So far as the floor and tranny getting hot, I have the same tranny as you do and it gets very hot at the floor and tunnel as yours does but the tranny temp gauge I installed indicates the tranny is not getting hot enough to cause any harm.

Not sure why you chose to not use the tranny cooler in the radiator, I'd run it before I'd run a smaller cooler even if it had its own fan. Or, just run them both in series. So far though, and I've been wheeling in hot desert conditions, I haven't seen the need to run a second cooler for the 3-speed auto tranny I recently converted to from the old 5-speed manual. All I've done to it is install a deep pan that holds more coolant.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:07 PM   #11
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What temps are you running in the tranny?? From what ive read 160 is a good temp. I also have the deep pan and im gonna be installing a gauge and sensor for it asap
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:44 PM   #12
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I have the same tranny and my foot will get very hot
but I have been having temp problems with the AC on it will run a little above 210 with out the ac on but with the ac it will hit closer to 240 on the hwy and 230 at Idle
with out ac it runs about 220 but its about 110 today
all though on the trail this morning it stayed at 210 without the ac on

now with my system everything is new radiator water pump hoses
thermostat and a ford taurus 2 speed fan
but I did try the factory clutch fan wich is a new fan and fan clutch and it still gets hot

I am going to put hood vents in but I want the cooling problem fixed first
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:12 PM   #13
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i took out my tstat boiled it to 200 degrees and it popped open so now i know its working. but before i re-installed it i drilled a small hole in it to let any air through they may be hurting my system. so far so good. ill be wheeling it tomorrow and ill let you know how it goes.
my ac unit does the same, if i turn it on while driving on the freeway i can watch my temps slowly rise. but the AC does work really good. maybe the compressor/clutch thing is dragging>?????
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:13 PM   #14
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I was thinking of doing the samething to my thermostat

last year was the first time the jeep started to act up (cooling wise)
but this year its been worse I'm going to add the bigger tranny cooler that I got for free (its brand new never used)
and probily drill the thermostat
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:15 PM   #15
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Jerry why wont a 180 t stat reduce temps? thats the whole point isnt it. instead of the T stat opening at 195 degrees and maintianing that temp via the radiator it opens at 180 and maintains that temp. granted your cooling system is functioning properlly. I did this mod on my old 97 ram and it worked. the computer only monitors how long it takes to get above 160 degrees. so if you run a tstat below 180 or none at all you will get a "too cold for too long" engine code.
This is an old trick thats been working for years and years.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:39 PM   #16
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Jerry why wont a 180 t stat reduce temps? thats the whole point isnt it. instead of the T stat opening at 195 degrees and maintianing that temp via the radiator it opens at 180 and maintains that temp. granted your cooling system is functioning properlly. I did this mod on my old 97 ram and it worked. the computer only monitors how long it takes to get above 160 degrees. so if you run a tstat below 180 or none at all you will get a "too cold for too long" engine code.
This is an old trick thats been working for years and years.

thats an old drag racing trick
I was running the 180 thermostat and it was still climbing like it is now
but with out the ac it runs at about 200
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:23 AM   #17
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First, don't install a 180 thermostat, it won't reduce engine temps in the least except perhaps in the dead of winter in very cold conditions.
You're going to have to explain that one Jerry. How would putting a lower temp thermostat not reduce the engine temperature?
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:26 AM   #18
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I have the same tranny and my foot will get very hot
but I have been having temp problems with the AC on it will run a little above 210 with out the ac on but with the ac it will hit closer to 240 on the hwy and 230 at Idle
with out ac it runs about 220 but its about 110 today
all though on the trail this morning it stayed at 210 without the ac on

now with my system everything is new radiator water pump hoses
thermostat and a ford taurus 2 speed fan
but I did try the factory clutch fan wich is a new fan and fan clutch and it still gets hot

I am going to put hood vents in but I want the cooling problem fixed first
Where did you put the fan thermo switch?
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:51 AM   #19
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Ill explain it for jerry. If you have enough radiator area and the outside temp is low enough and your vehicle doesnt run hot it will lower the temp. We used to pack the radiator and intake maifold on my grand national at the track to lower air intake temp and alow for a tad more boost. What jerry is refering to is that if you have a 210 therostat and your running 220 down the road with the therostat open a 180 therostat is going to do nothing for you an open therostat is an open thermostat. If your trany is running hot at highway speeds the first thing id check is the lockup convertor. If its not locking at highway speeds you will create alot of heat.
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:32 AM   #20
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well in my 97 ram i had a propper working cooling system, I went from 210 to a 180 and my truck never went above 180, not even while towing. We even had a thermo gun to double check the temps. like i said earlier as long as your cooling system is working properlly. We do this all the time in boats as well with the same results. hence why they make different tstat ranges for the same vehicles.

if your vehicle is having cooling issues and is running hotter then it should at highway speeds then yes dropping your tstat wont help. becasue there is a problem elsewhere. or you have a sticky thermostat.
now i know on my trans the lock up converter disengages at highway speeds or when cruising and ill drop a couple hundred RPMs. there is a plug for it and i can try unpluging it for a while. form the begining i have had a suspicion on my torque converter.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:01 AM   #21
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Where did you put the fan thermo switch?
my fan thermo switch is sitting on my fender
the thermo switchtemp reading thingy is inside the radiator hose
mounted the same way alot of hot rodders mount them
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:16 AM   #22
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Jerry why wont a 180 t stat reduce temps? thats the whole point isnt it.
No, it's really not there to help cool as it is to help the engine warm up. The only time it will make the engine run cooler is when the ambient air temps are so cold that the engine can't get to its normal temperature on its own. Otherwise no thermostat at all would be the way to go since a thermostat's only function is to close off flow through the radiator which makes the engine run warmer. Make sense?

Look at the temp a TJ 4.0L typically runs at... right at 210 degrees. The factory specified 195 degree thermostat is wide open at 195 degrees, so why isn't the engine running at 195 degrees instead? You could completely remove the thermostat and it will still run at the same 210 degrees (plus or minus) normal temperature, at least in normal weather conditions. Since the 195 degree thermostat is already wide open at 195 degrees, installing a 180 degree thermostat that would also be wide open wouldn't change a thing.

The TJ's engine was actually designed to run at that higher 210 degree (or so) temperature for smog reasons... a hotter engine burns cleaner and passes smog tests more easily... so running a cooler thermostat isn't going to change that. It will just slightly slow how quickly it reaches its normal operating temperature though, again, in extremely cold weather conditions it would indeed make the engine run closer to 180 degrees. In more temperate conditions, it will run at the same 210 degrees even with a 165 or 180 degree thermostat.

And so far as the temps of my transmission go, the hottest it's been on a really hot day has been maybe 205-210 degrees though 160-195 is more typical. From what I have read, there are no worries until the ATF gets up to 250-275 where it starts to break down.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:02 PM   #23
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if putting the 180 thermostat in the jeep doesnt keep it running cooler in the heat then how come when its was 115 last year my temp gauge was still under the 210 mark and that was with AC running it was runnig around 200 with AC
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:49 PM   #24
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if putting the 180 thermostat in the jeep doesnt keep it running cooler in the heat then how come when its was 115 last year my temp gauge was still under the 210 mark and that was with AC running it was runnig around 200 with AC
Mine runs about that temp too with my 195 degree thermostat. If I wanted to trust my gauge to be dead-nuts on, it's running under 210 too but it's close enough to 210 that I just say 210. Whatever, if it's over 195, even the 195 degree thermostat is wide open just like a 180 degree thermostat would be. I wheel in nothing but desert conditions by the way.
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:23 PM   #25
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Mine runs about that temp too with my 195 degree thermostat. If I wanted to trust my gauge to be dead-nuts on, it's running under 210 too but it's close enough to 210 that I just say 210. Whatever, if it's over 195, even the 195 degree thermostat is wide open just like a 180 degree thermostat would be. I wheel in nothing but desert conditions by the way.

when I say under the 210 mark I'm talking about if you look at your gauge you see the 210# now look at where the 2 starts with the AC on my gauge is in the middle to the end of the #2 its self with out the AC on the needle is closer to the beginning of the #2 (does that make sense)
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:42 PM   #26
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All I can say is that at the temp you're talking about, both a 195 and 180 degree thermostat will both be open fully. If both are fully open, and they are at the temperature you're asking about, there can be no difference.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:51 PM   #27
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Hmmm. This is making alot of sense. I have the same problem and Im running a 165 thermostat.

But I didn't have problems until I added A/C and a Huge M8274 warn winch. I think my problems are air flow. My condensor fins are mangled, and the winch is blocking the cooler airflow from getting to my radiator at high speeds. When I do some long highway driving at 70-75 mph it goes above 210 enough that I have to watch it. I notice when I slow down to 60-65 mph the engine cools better.

I'm going to swap out the Brass radiator with an all aluminum radiator and replace my A/C Condensor. The winch is staying......

dAvE
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:01 PM   #28
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well there is with the 180 in it runs cooler then with the 195 in


heres a pic with the temp with the 180 thermostat in thats with out the ac on I turn on the ac it normaly runs a little warmer but right now its running almost to the red but only with the ac on
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:04 PM   #29
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Hmmm. This is making alot of sense. I have the same problem and Im running a 165 thermostat.

But I didn't have problems until I added A/C and a Huge M8274 warn winch. I think my problems are air flow. My condensor fins are mangled, and the winch is blocking the cooler airflow from getting to my radiator at high speeds. When I do some long highway driving at 70-75 mph it goes above 210 enough that I have to watch it. I notice when I slow down to 60-65 mph the engine cools better.

I'm going to swap out the Brass radiator with an all aluminum radiator and replace my A/C Condensor. The winch is staying......

dAvE
we thought my winch was causing my problem right now I dont have the winch on it almost over heated yesterday I had to turn off the ac till it got back down to temp


and yes my airbag light stays on I need to replace the passinger airbag on off switch
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:20 PM   #30
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Have you checked the radiator for mud?

Have had that problem in the past and hosed it out real good.

Just a thought.

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