Crank, but no start. Starts 2nd try. Mostly when warm. - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:24 AM   #1
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Crank, but no start. Starts 2nd try. Mostly when warm.

This morning, I as the advice of the ever-knowledgeable Jeep community.

I have a 97 4.0 5sp, and the issue above.

If i crank the engine for 6-7 cranks, return key to off position, and crank again, starts right up. If I simply continue to crank, it will eventually start, sputter and level off. Often, after sitting a bit and everything is cold, it will start right up.

Things i have changed within the last month:

Plugs & Wires
Disty cap, rotor button, and cam sensor
crank sensor (from dealer, as i was advised not to mess with autozone on these)
Battery
Fuel Pressure regulator
Fuel pump (not the airtex)

I will be swapping relays today, but in the likely scenario that doesnt work, would like your thoughts.

Please tell me i haven't encountered a ghost electrical issue that i will never really solve...

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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:29 AM   #2
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You got a bad fuel pressure regulator (FPR), not uncommon to get bad ones. Turn the key on and off a few times before cranking the first time then try to crank it. If it fires right up then that will tell you for sure it is the FPR

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Old 01-27-2014, 10:06 AM   #3
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Thanks, Big Sarge. I have tried that in the past with no success. I will give it another go today to make sure. Do you think the fact that sometimes after sitting a while it starts right up would rule out the FPR?
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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:02 AM   #4
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To be sure put a pressure guage on rail and see what it reads when it is difficult to start if it is below spec you know the pump /regulator is suspect
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:25 PM   #5
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I hit it with a guage after the regulator and before doing the fuel pump. Even when cranking, it wasnt getting up to the ~49 psi that i believe is the spec. I will get another reading with the new pump.
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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:44 AM   #6
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Update

Couldn't find my pressure guage last night, so I will be picking up a new one tonight. I did, however, do a little more testing.

Jeep had been sitting overnight (it has been below freezing for the past week, and below 0 about half that time) when I started it after work yesterday and it displayed the expected hard starting issue. After being pulled into the garage (did NOT let it warm up) and sitting for 5 min, started right back up. I then let it sit for 10 min and then 20 min (still cold), and it started right back up both times. I hit the schrader valve on the rail after each start to check pressure and not once did i get fuel to come out. (keep in mind it still started right up after doing this).

Now here comes the "bazinga!". After the last start i let her warm up to running temp. Shut it off and waited 5 min. Hard start issue returns.

My head hurts.
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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 01-29-2014, 04:07 PM   #7
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Update

Got my gauge on it last night. I get 50 psi at the rail as soon as i cycle the pump on. Drops down to nothing within seconds. I also went ahead and pulled the rail with the injectors still connected to make sure that isn't where the leak is, and got nothing. Looks like a defective regulator has been confirmed.

I purchased the new one from 4 wheel parts. Called their customer service line today, and they sent me a prepaid return label immediately. Said when they get it back they will inspect the replacement before shipping. If that works out, kudos to their service department for making the situation right in a hurry.

Will update the thread when I put the replacement in. Wouldn't want anyone out there sitting on the edge of their seat to go without closure.
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-97 Sport, 5spd, D30/35, Zone 4.25 combo, 33x12.5x15 Hercules Trail Diggers on Pro Comp steelies
-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:01 PM   #8
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either check valve at pump or leaking injector

FSM says with gauge on rail turn on pump then clamp closed rubber line to rail then pump off and if pressure stays high it was bad check valve in pump and if still drops is a leaky injector
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:34 PM   #9
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You say check valve in pump. Do you mean the pressure regulator that goes on top of the sending unit? Or the pump itself? I have replaced both, but obviously one is bad.

I pulled the injectors out and put a paper towel under them, then cycled the pump on repeatedly with no fuel coming out any of the injectors. There should have been fuel coming out at that point if one was leaking, right?
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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:34 PM   #10
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I had this happen to me and it ended up being the heat from the exhaust manifold evaporating the fuel in the number 3 injector. Some thermal tape wrapped around the injector and wire fixed it.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:17 PM   #11
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03 manual says fast drop suspect pump check valve slower drop suspect regulator check valve
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:48 PM   #12
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Remembered wrong here is the quote

"(12) Testing for fuel injector or fuel rail leakage:
Clamp off the rubber hose portion of Adaptor
Tool between the fuel rail and the test port “T” on
Adapter Tool. If pressure now holds at or above 30
psi, a fuel injector or the fuel rail is leaking.
(13) Testing for fuel pump check valve, filter/
regulator check valve or fuel tube/line leakage:
Clamp off the rubber hose portion of Adaptor Tool
between the vehicle fuel line and test port “T” on
Adapter Tool. If pressure now holds at or above 30
psi, a leak may be found at a fuel tube/line. If no
leaks are found at fuel tubes or lines, one of the
check valves in either the electric fuel pump or filter/
regulator may be leaking.
Note: A quick loss of pressure usually indicates a
defective check valve in the filter/regulator. A slow
loss of pressure usually indicates a defective check
valve in the electric fuel pump.
The electric fuel pump is not serviced separately.
Replace the fuel pump module assembly. The filter/
regulator may be replaced separately on certain
applications. Refer to Fuel Filter/Fuel Pressure Regulator
Removal/Installation for additional information"
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:35 PM   #13
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Thanks guys. As soon as I am able to use up this tank, I will be dropping it to pull the FPR off and get it exchanged. Will let you all know the result.
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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:25 PM   #14
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hard starting

Hi, I am new to this forum and came across this thread and it sounds like my Jeep. I have a '97 Wrangler 4.0 that has had some starting problems just like those listed above. I figured it was the one-way valve at the pump leaking down when the Jeep is parked for a while. So I replaced it and it started great....for a few months. Then started doing exactly the same as before. The valve is not expensive but dropping the tank is not fun.

To add another wrinkle, lately on occasion after starting the Jeep it would not idle unless I gave it some throttle. After it ran for a while it would idle. So I changed the Idle Control Module and bingo it starts much better and it idles like it should. Seems to me they must be related.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:17 AM   #15
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Just wanted to post my resolution. Installed the replacement FPR yesterday, and we are all good.

Its hard to believe so many people get this same part defective out of the box.
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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
-Life is a journey, not a guided tour.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:50 AM   #16
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Glad you got it fixed and glad I was able to help you out. I read a lot on here and as you said it is unbeleivable how many get this same part bad out of the box. Didn't want to see you waste a bunch of money swapping other things, while thinking it can't be the new part!
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l---L -OlllllllO-
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:54 PM   #17
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Thanks Big Sarge. Having already replaced a bunch of parts chasing the issue, I was glad to have it finally resolved. I guess I can still rest assured that i have a new CPS, CMS, and fuel pump as well.

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-[Stolen/Totaled]00 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5spd, D30 - D44, 31x10.5 Dunlop Mud Rovers, 2" Skyjacker BB w/Hydro 7000 shocks
-Life is a journey, not a guided tour.
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crank but no start , fuel pressure regulator , fuel pump , fuel pump relay , hard start

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