Currie Johnny Joint UCA Mount Welding? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 05-12-2012, 08:30 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Currie Johnny Joint UCA Mount Welding?

I want to get the Currie Johnny Joint kit that replaces the front passenger side upper control arm mount. The thing is 1" thick! Would a 180 amp welder be able to do this?

__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-12-2012, 08:48 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd
I want to get the Currie Johnny Joint kit that replaces the front passenger side upper control arm mount. The thing is 1" thick! Would a 180 amp welder be able to do this?
Yes

longtooth is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-12-2012, 10:03 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Awesome! The reason I ask is the Hobart 187 is rated at 5/16" steel. The Currie mount is 1". Do I need to do multiple passes or something?

I guess I don't understand why the 5/16" rating does not apply here.
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-12-2012, 10:17 PM   #4
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 31,368
Images: 2
The mount isn't made from 1" steel, what are you talking about welding that is 1" thick?
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-12-2012, 11:23 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 33
OP your looking at it wrong. The houseing that holds the jj is around 1" thick, the mount your welding it too is not. So it is an easy weld, I did mine with a miller 140.
longtooth is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-12-2012, 11:49 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
OK, so it seems when a welder has a thickness rating it means only one of the two pieces being welded together needs to be less than or equal to that rating.

In this case one surface is 1" thick (the Currie JJ housing) and the other is around 1/8" thick (the factory UCA mount). Since one of those pieces is less than or equal to 5/16" it's OK.
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-13-2012, 08:32 AM   #7
Jeeper
 
TnDz TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,925
Images: 220
Not stirring the pot....

What are you trying to do again?

I think you are confused.... post a pic of what you are welding. I have NEVER seen a 1" thick mount for a Jeep.... except for a recovery point.....
__________________
~Todd~ 2004 X 4.0 5 speed---SOLD
4" Lift, 4.56's, 33" Duratracs on M/T Classics
RR SYE, Tatton CV, MML, BL, TT, Dynomax Exhaust
Hella Lighting: Driving, Fogs and H4 E-Codes
NOPE! ... and NEVER will be...
TnDz TJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-13-2012, 08:55 AM   #8
Jeeper
 
UnlimitedLJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd View Post
I guess I don't understand why the 5/16" rating does not apply here.
don't look at the welders 5/16" rating as meaning much of anything.

it's all about how much heat (amperage) the machine can put into the material & area. The reason more heat is needed with thicker material is because it takes more heat to warm up.

But, you can cheat to achieve better weld penetration. You can bevel the edge of the mount area, and then fill the removed material area with weld.

So, the mount is 1" thick...well you can bevel the edge with a grinder (or it may be beveled already from Currie). That basically increases the weldable "area". You'll then run one root pass to fill in the bevel, then run another one or two passes on top of that root pass, to cap the outside. basically filling in the bevel until you get a characteristic weld bead on top. be sure to alternate sides and let the work cool so it doesn't warp the hell out of it.


from: http://www.weldingpositions.com/doub...eparation.html
UnlimitedLJ04 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-13-2012, 09:38 AM   #9
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Thanks for all the help of far. I wonder why you can't just push out the rubber bushing and press in a JJ. Why do you need the JJ housing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnDz TJ View Post
Not stirring the pot....

What are you trying to do again?

I think you are confused.... post a pic of what you are welding. I have NEVER seen a 1" thick mount for a Jeep.... except for a recovery point.....
Here it is. You cut the factory UCA mount off the axle housing about half way down. This slides in the bottom half still attached to the axle housing and welded into place.

Name:  Currie.jpg
Views: 602
Size:  92.0 KB

Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-13-2012, 09:53 AM   #10
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd View Post
Thanks for all the help of far. I wonder why you can't just push out the rubber bushing and press in a JJ. Why do you need the JJ housing?
You don't have to use the 1" thick mount. You can do it much harder and work more.





The reason you can't press in the JJ mount on the passenger side is there isn't enough press fit to retain the special JJ barrel and the mount on that side needs to be beefed up.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Got it, thanks!
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
Deadman Walking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 20
Thumbs up

Nice looking welds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
You don't have to use the 1" thick mount. You can do it much harder and work more.





The reason you can't press in the JJ mount on the passenger side is there isn't enough press fit to retain the special JJ barrel and the mount on that side needs to be beefed up.
__________________
The Second Amendment states; A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Gun control isn't about controlling guns, it's about controlling you.
Deadman Walking is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 11:44 AM   #13
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
I chose to work harder.

Here is my implementation of what Black Magic Brakes was doing. I used a wire feed (with gas) welder instead of a TIG.

Since I'm still newish to welding I'm not sure how long of beads I can lay before warping. So I did 1" stitch welds. I do need to get better at overlapping the stitches to get them to look more continuous.

Click image for larger version

Name:	02-Flattened.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	112.7 KB
ID:	255564

Click image for larger version

Name:	04a-Welded.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	135.3 KB
ID:	255565

Click image for larger version

Name:	05-Finished.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	144.7 KB
ID:	255566
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 11:50 AM   #14
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 31,368
Images: 2
I'm only a hack welder myself but I'd have to say that looks like some pretty good welding on top. Not sure about where it is welded to the tube though. I can't see it from the photo that well but is there adequate penetration into the tube? What size MIG welder? 110v or 220v?
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 01:59 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I'm only a hack welder myself but I'd have to say that looks like some pretty good welding on top. Not sure about where it is welded to the tube though. I can't see it from the photo that well but is there adequate penetration into the tube? What size MIG welder? 110v or 220v?
Thanks! I'm using a Hobart 187 with 75% Argon / 25% CO2 gas. It's 220V.

I don't have a better picture of the weld on the tube. I'm under the impression it does have good penetration. I'll post a pic and let me know what you think Jerry.
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 04:24 PM   #16
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd View Post
I chose to work harder.

Here is my implementation of what Black Magic Brakes was doing. I used a wire feed (with gas) welder instead of a TIG.
While I appreciate the compliment, that was done with a Mig and 75/25. That is a poor representation of what good welds should look like and I only do it that way to keep the heat down.

Yours is actually welded better.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 04:58 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
freeskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 2,514
Good welds don't have to look pretty, only thing that matters is penetration.

Also as far as thickness "ratings" when welding two pieces of metal together there are a couple ways to go about doing it. You can either set up for the thinner of the metals and just weld, which is the safest. Or you can set up for the thicker of the metal but aim the heat/puddle more to the thicker metal. This will give you a better weld but if you aren't very experienced in welding you could also blow through the thinner metal.
__________________
CU Boulder Aerospace Engineering
freeskier is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 05:14 PM   #18
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
While I appreciate the compliment, that was done with a Mig and 75/25. That is a poor representation of what good welds should look like and I only do it that way to keep the heat down.

Yours is actually welded better.
My mind is officially blown!

Edit: Oh, you did a series of overlapping spot welds? Hmm, I'll keep this in mind, some day it may come in handy.
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeskier View Post
Good welds don't have to look pretty, only thing that matters is penetration.

Also as far as thickness "ratings" when welding two pieces of metal together there are a couple ways to go about doing it. You can either set up for the thinner of the metals and just weld, which is the safest. Or you can set up for the thicker of the metal but aim the heat/puddle more to the thicker metal. This will give you a better weld but if you aren't very experienced in welding you could also blow through the thinner metal.
Thanks. I talked with a Hobart traveling rep once and he told me about this. I'm going to start implementing this technique, because I'm not satisfied with the welds when I turn the heat down to the lowest common denominator.
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 07:32 PM   #20
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd View Post
Thanks. I talked with a Hobart traveling rep once and he told me about this. I'm going to start implementing this technique, because I'm not satisfied with the welds when I turn the heat down to the lowest common denominator.
Welding thin to thick is very easy if you are a sight weldor that depends on puddle manipulation.

Simply run the bead on the hotter settings and start with it on the thicker material and as you move the bead along, just do a slight wash over to the thinner stuff and move back as soon as you see the puddle melt onto the thinner side.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 07:34 PM   #21
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeskier View Post
Good welds don't have to look pretty, only thing that matters is penetration.
That is the mantra of crappy weldors worldwide.

The simple fact is that if you are a proficient weldor, the mastery of technique and processes will automatically lend itself to clean looking welds. Everything else is BS.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 07:41 PM   #22
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd View Post
My mind is officially blown!

Edit: Oh, you did a series of overlapping spot welds? Hmm, I'll keep this in mind, some day it may come in handy.
Yes, but not normal ones. That is a crappy technique that only has value in certain conditions. It is good to know how to do, just don't make a habit of it and use it for everything. The reason that one isn't what it appears is I adjusted the machine to be a bit slower and a whole bunch hotter. If I tried to do a continuous bead with it, it would blow big holes in the sheetmetal mount.

You do one spot and then the next one starts at the tip of the base of the puddle and you wash it back up onto the first one.

It's handy for doing tricky stuff that you want to look a certain way but it has been held up as an example of what a good weld should look like which is not true at all. That "stack o'dimes" BS comes from folks who are trying to imitate the process for Tig welding aluminum which has nothing to do with how you should be welding steel with a Mig.

That said, you can get tricky with the technique if you master it.

__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 08:40 PM   #23
Jeeper
 
toolmantim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: 2 miles from jeep factory
Posts: 65
Puddle manipulation. Great term.

That IS welding. Beyond that your just looking for the proper balance needed to bond the 2 materials properly.
__________________
professional driver. closed course. do not attempt.
toolmantim is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 09:02 PM   #24
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
Puddle manipulation. Great term.

That IS welding. Beyond that your just looking for the proper balance needed to bond the 2 materials properly.
The value of being able to see what you are doing is rarely emphasized enough. A friend sent me a pic of his welds once where he was doing a lower control arm mount. The weld extended past the end of the tab onto the tube by about an inch and a half.

I told him to quit welding by braille and go get a good hood so he could see what he was doing.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-30-2013, 09:14 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
freeskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 2,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post

That is the mantra of crappy weldors worldwide.

The simple fact is that if you are a proficient weldor, the mastery of technique and processes will automatically lend itself to clean looking welds. Everything else is BS.
I guess all I was really trying to say is they don't need to look like works of art. Also to your point about seeing the puddle and a good hood. When I was learning I got super frustrated as I could barely get it started. I kept welding tips closed. I decided to buy an auto dimming hood with adjustable shade. Being able to see front start to finish and being able to adjust the shade to see the puddle AND the wire going into the puddle made a massive difference.
__________________
CU Boulder Aerospace Engineering
freeskier is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 06-05-2013, 09:40 AM   #26
Jeeper
 
ipleadda2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denver Metro Area Colorado
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I'm only a hack welder myself but I'd have to say that looks like some pretty good welding on top. Not sure about where it is welded to the tube though. I can't see it from the photo that well but is there adequate penetration into the tube? What size MIG welder? 110v or 220v?
Here's a pic of that weld on the tube. Now that I got better at welding I could get that bead to lay flatter. I probably should have increased the heat.

I plan on extending it an inch. I can redo it at that time if you think it didn't penetrate enough.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP3163.JPG
Views:	65
Size:	125.0 KB
ID:	257943
__________________
Stop thinking and all your problems go away.
- Lao Tzu (from Tao Te Ching) ~500BCE

ipleadda2nd is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 06-05-2013, 10:50 AM   #27
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipleadda2nd View Post
Here's a pic of that weld on the tube. Now that I got better at welding I could get that bead to lay flatter. I probably should have increased the heat.

I plan on extending it an inch. I can redo it at that time if you think it didn't penetrate enough.

Attachment 257943
For that position, you are running a bit cold and moving a bit slow. Turn the heat up, or wire speed down and move slightly faster.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 06-05-2013, 11:25 AM   #28
Jeeper
 
toolmantim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: 2 miles from jeep factory
Posts: 65
It kinda looks like your nozzle direction is giving you problems also. You need to move that thing around so that you can direct the heat where it needs to be.

nozzle angles and small circles are your friend.
__________________
professional driver. closed course. do not attempt.
toolmantim is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 06-05-2013, 12:04 PM   #29
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
It kinda looks like your nozzle direction is giving you problems also. You need to move that thing around so that you can direct the heat where it needs to be.

nozzle angles and small circles are your friend.
Not really. While angle is important, it is more important for new welders to learn puddle control, movement speed, heat and wire speed settings rather than becoming dependent upon some mystical gyrations of the electrode to make a good weld.

No circles here, and the only electrode manipulation was a very slight and by slight I mean no more than 1/16" side to side wash to wet out both sides evenly.



Same here with only less manipulation.



That is not to say that there is no time to use a pattern or manipulate the electrode, but learn to weld first and then the use of a pattern will come naturally.

__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC